Bowing and Curtseying


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LauraS3514 said:
I was watching the BBC news online and they kept switching camera views; I didn't see Andrew bow either, but I'm positive he did.
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Yes he did; he nodded his head.

Lady Louise curtsying and James, Viscount Severn bowing to the coffin


AA11Pj6F.img
 
LauraS3514 said:
I was watching the BBC news online and they kept switching camera views; I didn't see Andrew bow either, but I'm positive he did.
sarahedwards2 said:
Yes he did; he nodded his head.
sarahedwards2 said:
Tim didn’t bow.
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I cannot believe that he didn't but I also think he had one eye on the coffin and the other on his wife who looked ashen and about to crash . . . instead she found that iron will of hers and pulled off an absolutely amazing respectful and loving deep curtsey.

While I couldn't see Sophie, I saw her legs, and dress so I think she gave her best for a loved MIL with her dress touching the ground. Her children, Lady Louise and James Viscount Severn both did Edward and Sophie proud.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net...1Pj6F.img?w=768&h=511&m=6&x=547&y=9&s=27&d=27
 
sarahedwards2 said:
I thought the Dutch don’t bow or curtsy?
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Crown Princess Victoria is Swedish, not Dutch. Also the Dutch royals adhere to royal protocol when abroad and accept it from foreign royals in the Netherlands.
 
JGio said:
They’re literally walking up the steps in the image, am I wrong?
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OMG, you got me cracking up laughing because you are right! They are doing like a Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks ?

sarahedwards2 said:
I'm surprised no one has posted this yet, so here it is:
Princess Anne curtsying to her mother the Queen's coffin

Moment Princess Anne maintains protocol with curtsey to Queen's coffin

Good for you, Anne! :curtsey: right back!
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If I recall protocol well, crown princes/heirs bow or curtsy to reigning monarchs that are heads of state. Not sure if princes from ruling monarchies have to do this to pretenders (the many former rulers that lost the country in WWI or WWII) or former monarchs (for example the Greek King and Queen).

Don't know if it was here or at Netty's that I read (before I stopped posting in the Forum in 2007/2008) that Prince Charles and Princess Diana had to curtsy Monaco's Princes Rainier and Grace because they were royals and head of a state but Caroline had to curtsy to them for being heirs/Princes of Wales.
 
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Were there any curtsies for Queen Mathilde?
 
Toledo said:
If I recall protocol well, crown princes/heirs bow or curtsy to reigning monarchs that are heads of state. Not sure if princes from ruling monarchies have to do this to pretenders (the many former rulers that lost the country in WWI or WWII) or former monarchs (for example the Greek King and Queen).

Don't know if it was here or at Netty's that I read (before I stopped posting in the Forum in 2007/2008) that Prince Charles and Princess Diana had to curtsy Monaco's Princes Rainier and Grace because they were royals and head of a state but Caroline had to curtsy to them for being heirs/Princes of Wales.
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But the Monaco royals are only His/Her Serene Highnesses.
 
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
 
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Moonmaiden23 said:
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
 
Moonmaiden23 said:
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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fandesacs2003 said:
I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
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According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
 
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Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
 
valeas said:
Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
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The eldest two Wales children have been seen doing so already for some time. I can't remember Louis being in a public situation where he would need to do so yet.
 
JR76 said:
According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
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Diana curtsied to the Princess of Monaco white she was still Lady Diana Spencer...not as Princess of Wales.

I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess. Perhaps such protocol niceties didn't survive the post war upheaval, because it sure doesn't seem to be the norm now..even though I did see newly married Charlene curtsy to the Duchess of Cornwall in 2012.

But Princess Charlene of Monaco, curtsying to Princesses Kate, Stephanie(Lux) Marie-Chantal or Victoria? Can't picture it.

Princess Caroline has perfect manners, both her mother and her governesses were sticklers.
 
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That's what I like with the Dutch royals, including the king & queen, protocol is very simple, no curtsey in the country only with foreign state visits protocol applies.
 
Moonmaiden23 said:
I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess.
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In most cases she should, because HSH is a lesser rank than HRH. Of course it also depends on the circumstance and the proximity of the HSH to the throne such as the case with HSH The Princess of Monaco, who is a consort to a reigning monarch and therefore equal with every other royal consort regardless.

Even in the BRF there are theoretically rules about which HRH members of the family curtsy to others, depending on who is in the room at the time, although I don't remember seeing photos where this protocol was actually observed.

Caroline should absolutely have curtsied to Diana as HRH The Princess of Wales and it's en etiquette faux pas not to have.
 
So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?

Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them??:sad:
 
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Moonmaiden23 said:
So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?

Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them??:sad:
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No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.


Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilège du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.
 
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kimebear said:
No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.


Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilège du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.
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She curtsied to Charles and Camilla when they were Prince of Wales/Duchess of Cornwall though. I assumed the same as you until I saw that.

 
I think Charlene forgot as a new Consort that she didn't need to curtsey as not only were they no longer the royal family of her entire life, but contemporaries as she herself was now a royal Consort.
 
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IMO Monaco always is a bit messy when it comes to protocol (or they just do so out of respect rather than strictly following protocol). Albert who is the monarch also has bowed to another monarch (but sometimes he didn't).

Actually in the description of the Youtube video HRHHermione posted the uploader also suggested that it's a break of protocol (in fact she always curtseys when she doesn't have to).

My understanding (not necessarily right) is that in modern European practice, monarchs/consort doesn't have to bow/curtsey to anyone, no matter HM, HRH or HSH, as long as you're the monarch/consort you bow/curtsey to no one. OTOH non-monarch royals also don't bow/curtsey to royal with equal/lower rank even if he/she is the monarch/consort.

As there aren't many videos of Monaco royals, I take Luxembourg as example.

For example in this old video of State Visit between Luxembourg and UK, no bow/curtsey between two monarch couples, OTOH also no curtsey from Princess Anne and Princess Margaret to the Grand Duke and Duchess.

And in newer video of State Visit between Luxembourg and the Netherlands, also no bow/curtsey from the Grand Duchy couple to the King and Queen.

Same in the Japan enthronement (at 2:00), no bow from both Grand Duke of Luxembourg and Prince of Monaco to the Emperor and Empress of Japan. (Interestingly after them King of Sweden did bow to the Emperor and Empress which I think it's simply a move of respect, I think sometimes bowing or curtseying could be just a personal preference to show respect and not always about protocol).
 
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