Bowing and Curtseying


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I much prefer these types of curtesy's where the person doesn't appear to be holding onto the royal.


LaRae
 
Terri Terri said:
The Duke of Cambridge is second in line, not third.
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Of course, I was thinking about Queen - Prince of Wales - Duke of Cambridge, so included the reigning monarch in my numbering :ohmy:

Luckily, it doesn't really change the point I was trying to make. He is the third most important royal with no real official position as of yet.
 
Pranter said:
I much prefer these types of curtesy's where the person doesn't appear to be holding onto the royal.


LaRae
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Unless you are The Princess Royal, you back is straight and King Felipe is kissing your hand at the same time. Even the DM said "Now THAT'S a Curtsey. :cool:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/19/424E923500000578-4694136-image-m-97_1499972184281.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/19/424E923500000578-4694136-image-m-97_1499972184281.jpg

Somebody said:
Still it does look weird that the prime minister (who holds an important office) is so submissive to the third in line to the throne (who only has a couple of honorary positions).
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For a woman to curtsey is in no way a submissive act. It is an act of respect or reverence defined as "an external manifestation of personal courtesy.

So yes, Theresa May is the Prime Minister, but she is paying her respects to a Prince of Great Britain and that is in no way an "honorary" position. Neither he nor she sees her as a submissive or inferior person.
 
Anne is doing a almost perfect curtesy...and she's not holding onto him for support!


LaRae
 
MARG said:
Unless you are The Princess Royal, you back is straight and King Felipe is kissing your hand at the same time. Even the DM said "Now THAT'S a Curtsey. :cool:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/19/424E923500000578-4694136-image-m-97_1499972184281.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/13/19/424E923500000578-4694136-image-m-97_1499972184281.jpg

For a woman to curtsey is in no way a submissive act. It is an act of respect or reverence defined as "an external manifestation of personal courtesy.

So yes, Theresa May is the Prime Minister, but she is paying her respects to a Prince of Great Britain and that is in no way an "honorary" position. Neither he nor she sees her as a submissive or inferior person.
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So, does William also show that same respect for the Prime Minister of his country? Or does that personal courtesy not extend to her?

And would the prime minister also curtsey to princess Michael of Kent?

The honorary positions I was thinking about were among others him being an aide de camp to her majesty; currently he is a peer but he does not hold an official office.

[Of course this is tradition and I'm from a country where that tradition is long gone - so that might make me cringe a little when elected officials with real responsibilities pay their respect in such a submissive way (just look at the picture and it is hard not to look at it as such - a simple nod as the men are expected to do would not provoke the same thought) to someone who is not yet the head of state - who doesn't at least return that same external expression of respect]
 
Somebody said:
The honorary positions I was thinking about were among others him being an aide de camp to her majesty; currently he is a peer but he does not hold an official office.
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Actually William is a member of the Queen's Privy Council, as is Mrs May BTW.


I guess that a basic tenet of the British system of government is that politicians, including the PM, are devoid of majesty. They are supposed to be "one of us" so to speak. Majesty rests with the sovereign and, I suppose, by extension, with the sovereign's successors like William or Charles. Mrs May's attitude seems to be consistent in this sense with British practice in my opinion.
 
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Mbruno said:
Actually William is a member of the Queen's Privy Council, as is Mrs May BTW.


I guess that a basic tenet of the British system of government is that politicians, including the PM, are devoid of majesty. They are supposed to be "one of us" so to speak. Majesty rests with the sovereign and, I suppose, by extension, with the sovereign's successors like William or Charles. Mrs May's attitude seems to be consistent in this sense with British practice in my opinion.
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That's why I used plural - he has several of those positions :flowers:

So, would the prime minister also curtsey to the duke of York or the duke of Sussex as non-direct heirs?
 
Somebody said:
That's why I used plural - he has several of those positions :flowers:

So, would the prime minister also curtsey to the duke of York or the duke of Sussex as non-direct heirs?
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Honestly I don't know if Mrs May would curtsy to the Duke of Sussex or the Duke of York. My point was, however, that, in Britain, people are not expected to be deferential to the prime minister or any other elected politician. The prime minister , despite beng the de facto head of government, is supposed to be an ordinary citizen like everybody else. People are expected to be deferential to the Queen though , not only as a matter of courtesy or tradition, but because she is the embodiment of state sovereignty.
 
It's weird to this American, as Theresa May is actually in charge, while William was simply born. I guess it's just a nod to tradition.
 
When I think about it, actually Theresa May is the Prime Minister of Her Majesty's government. Although the Queen has no political power really, she does as the Prime Minister to form a government. With William being a senior royal, Mrs. May is showing respect for the monarchy when she does a curtsey to him.

At least that's how I look at it.
 
I love that photo. The people in that photo weren't just paying their respects to the Queen but they also wore great big smiles as they did it. To show the proper respect and enjoy doing it is something you don't see to often these days. :D

Nothing says "gentlemanly" like a man tipping his top hat with a smile like Andrew did.
 
The Yorks look genuinely happy to see HM today.?
 
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Al_bina said:
Ms May's curtsy was awkwardly painful.
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That’s because there’s no right way of doing it, and you can only do it in the way you’re comfortable with.

The Queen is famous for not being overly impressed by very dramatic and deep curtsies. Even when she was Princess Elizabeth, her curtsies were just quick and half bobs.
 
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Dman said:
That’s because there’s no right way of doing it, and you can only do it in the way you’re comfortable with.
The Queen is famous for not being overly impressed by very dramatic and deep curtsies. Even when she was Princess Elizabeth, her curtsies were just quick and half bobs.
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Japanese Imperial Princesses, Hereditary Grand Duchess Stephanie, and Princess Anne give excellent curtsies.

The Iron Lady curtsied in a proper manner.
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/853577126
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/829823304
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/575450689
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/73630561
 
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Archaic gestures. It shows dominance. Too bad still doing it in 2018.
 
Osipi said:
When I think about it, actually Theresa May is the Prime Minister of Her Majesty's government. Although the Queen has no political power really, she does as the Prime Minister to form a government. With William being a senior royal, Mrs. May is showing respect for the monarchy when she does a curtsey to him.

At least that's how I look at it.
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So, I see how it would make sense to curtsey to Her Majesty (if that is part of the tradition in a country) but where does that extension end. She is not the prime minister of the duchess of Cambridge's government... So, I keep wondering at which member 'showing respect to the monarchy' ends ?

Formally, the children of the monarch outrank grandchildren, so if she is consistent she should at least also curtsey to the duke of York, the earl of Wessex, the countess of Wessex and the princess royal. The queen might privately have decided that the order of preference is applied differently, I would expect the prime minister to uphold the official order :D

Do we have any pictures of the prime minister meeting the other children of the monarch (other than Charles and Camilla)?
 
There is also another reason for the Prime Minister to curtsy to the Duke of Cambridge recently. It wasn't as if Mrs. May and the DoC were meeting at a social event (such as Ascot) but rather they were both there to open the newly-built Defence and National Rehabilitation Centre.

Mrs. May was there as a representative of the her majesty's government and William was there representing the Queen. The greeting was more formally structured.
 
COUNTESS said:
Archaic gestures. It shows dominance. Too bad still doing it in 2018.
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I disagree. There is nothing about dominance in a curtsy. And, again, the fact that politicians in the UK, including the prime minister, are like any common person is a good thing.
 
PM May curtsied to the Duke of Cambridge because he’s the second in line to the throne. The future monarch. She curtsy to The Queen and other senior members of the royal family.
 
Of course we all know that its not a requirement to bow or curtsy but I do think its a wonderful display of respect when it does happen. There's nothing dominating about it at all. Some "old fashioned" courtesies seem to have gone out the window with the 21st century and to me, its kind of a sad thing.
 
COUNTESS said:
Archaic gestures. It shows dominance. Too bad still doing it in 2018.
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I agree. :sad: It looks very, very odd to the modern eye. Not necessary. Maybe one might do it with a religious figure, but even there nothing extreme should be indulged. JMO.
 
It’s not mandatory to curtsy to The Queen and senior members of the royal family. It’s just done out of respect.

The younger members of the royal family aren’t really into people curtsying to them, but they graciously accept the slight bow and dip. It’s pretty much dying out though. In the Queen’s young days; whenever she entered a cathedral, parliament, or room, you would see lots of folks bobbing up and down. Now it’s very rare. Only a couple of people do it.
 
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I fail to see why any here should find it necessary to apologise for those who curtsey to HM and other senior royals as if they have done something wrong and distasteful.

You do not have to agree with bowing and curtseying but calling it archaic in such a way as to denigrate the person who performs it is both culturally insensitive and just plain rude.

If you find the practise anathema to you then say so and that in the extremely remote chance that you should be in the presence of royalty, shake their hand.
 
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