The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020


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Does it matter? If they' are moving in, Im sure they've gone into the legalities and so on. Its not Meg and harry's own house but then I doubt if tehy will come back, so its better for someone to be living there than to have the house standing empty.
 
Honestly I think this sublet thing is H&M way of repay themselves for the refurbish money they paid back. any extra would be income, and honestly I think they need any cash they get their hands on, I mean, they do have a mortgage to pay and the house in CA is a fortune to keep up!
 
evolvingdoors said:
Honestly I think this sublet thing is H&M way of repay themselves for the refurbish money they paid back. any extra would be income, and honestly I think they need any cash they get their hands on, I mean, they do have a mortgage to pay and the house in CA is a fortune to keep up!
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I doubt if Eug and Jack are paying rent to Meghan and harry. They have just probably taken over the maintenance and any payments that have to be made.
 
Doubt E&J are paying rent to H&M as Frogmore Cottage is owned by the Crown Estate.
It probably is just insinuated by media that H&M are subletting imo because it makes a better story :flowers:
They were the previous tennants and now E&J are

it's probably not very different from your regular rental: the landlord owns the building, you as a tennant can put your own furniture in it


From sussexroyal website with regards to ownership of the property
https://sussexroyal.com/funding/

How was the Official Residence of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex (Frogmore Cottage) funded?

The refurbishment of Frogmore Cottage, the Grade-2*listed*building in Windsor Home Park was funded by Her Majesty The Queen through the Sovereign Grant, reflecting the Monarchy’s responsibility to maintain the upkeep of buildings with historical significance (see above). Expenses related to fixtures, furnishings, and fittings at the official residence – which is owned by Her Majesty the Queen – were funded privately by The Duke and Duchess of Sussex. As stated on*The Official UK Government website:*“The occupied Royal Palaces are held in trust for the nation by The Queen as Sovereign. Their maintenance and upkeep is one of the expenses met by the government in return for the surrender by the Sovereign of the hereditary revenues of the Crown (mainly the profit from the Crown Estate). The Sovereign Grant will allow the Royal Household to set its own priorities and thus generate economies. The occupied Royal Palaces are:*Buckingham Palace, St James’s Palace, the residential and office areas of Kensington Palace, the Royal Mews and Royal Paddocks at Hampton Court,*Windsor Castle and buildings in the Home and Great Parks at Windsor.”
 
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Denville said:
Does it matter? If they' are moving in, Im sure they've gone into the legalities and so on. Its not Meg and harry's own house but then I doubt if tehy will come back, so its better for someone to be living there than to have the house standing empty.
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This is what I think. It’s a good solution for all involved. It might be where Eugenie and jack want to raise their children, Harry and Meghan are unlikely to have much attachment to it and this may be a convenient way for them to be free of it entirely, and it’s nice that the home will be lived in full time. It seems like a win for everyone involved.
 
duchessrachel said:
Where do Edo and Beatrice live?
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Before their wedding, Beatrice did live in St. Jame Palace as a London residence. Edo also had a flat in London, where he lived before the wedding.

There is a possibility that they are in Windsor right now, but I'm not quite sure if they are staying in Royal Lodge right now.
 
Denville said:
I doubt if Eug and Jack are paying rent to Meghan and harry. They have just probably taken over the maintenance and any payments that have to be made.
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Lee-Z said:
Doubt E&J are paying rent to H&M as Frogmore Cottage is owned by the Crown Estate.
It probably is just insinuated by media that H&M are subletting imo because it makes a better story :flowers:
They were the previous tennants and now E&J are

it's probably not very different from your regular rental: the landlord owns the building, you as a tennant can put your own furniture in it


From sussexroyal website with regards to ownership of the property
https://sussexroyal.com/funding/

How was the Official Residence of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex (Frogmore Cottage) funded?

The refurbishment of Frogmore Cottage, the Grade-2*listed*building in Windsor Home Park was funded by Her Majesty The Queen through the Sovereign Grant, reflecting the Monarchy’s responsibility to maintain the upkeep of buildings with historical significance (see above). Expenses related to fixtures, furnishings, and fittings at the official residence – which is owned by Her Majesty the Queen – were funded privately by The Duke and Duchess of Sussex. As stated on*The Official UK Government website:*“The occupied Royal Palaces are held in trust for the nation by The Queen as Sovereign. Their maintenance and upkeep is one of the expenses met by the government in return for the surrender by the Sovereign of the hereditary revenues of the Crown (mainly the profit from the Crown Estate). The Sovereign Grant will allow the Royal Household to set its own priorities and thus generate economies. The occupied Royal Palaces are:*Buckingham Palace, St James’s Palace, the residential and office areas of Kensington Palace, the Royal Mews and Royal Paddocks at Hampton Court,*Windsor Castle and buildings in the Home and Great Parks at Windsor.”
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Yes the crown owns the estate but it is still leashed out to H&M, it is their name on the lease, their responsibility.


Per Chris Ship twitter account (bolded and italics mine, caps Chris's)
https://twitter.com/x/status/1329933789208997889

NEW: Confirmed by Team Sussex

Frogmore Cottage REMAINS the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s residence in the UK

They are “delighted” to open up their home to Harry’s cousin Princess Eugenie and husband Jack as they start their own family

Understood that Harry & Meghan still financially responsible for Frogmore

The musical chairs were discussed with other members of the Royal Family


At no point is it mentioned that this "open up their home" is free of charge but they do confirm H&M are responsible for the upkeep.
it's the lack of the first (ie yes or no paying them rent) but the addition of the letter that makes my 'property for lease owner' radar blip.
And no doubt H&M would want to keep quiet any money they receive as rent because it would draw criticism as to why they don't just give up the lease all-together.


This is why I said it looks more like a sublet situation, where E&J will be paying H&M (who are the leasers) rent. And in my personal opinion, as someone who owns properties for lease, it is done to repay themselves back the 2.5 million they paid for the renovation. Like I said they have a mortgage to pay and multiple PR people and of course Meghan court case which can not be cheap.
I look depending on how high the rent is, I fully expect we hear news in a few years- once whatever cash they are repaying themselves from the rent, and assuming Harry has not returned to the UK and needs a place to live with/without his son or would even want to go back to Frogmore - that the lease has been fully transferred to E&J.


It's not the worst idea they've had in the last two/three years.
 
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If its unlikely they will ever be back; and if they do, they can stay in a million other places; why don't they just let the cottage go; move on, and leave it for people who want to live there, and appreciate living there. What's the point of holding onto a property that's thousands of miles away!!
 
UglyAmerican said:
I'm less and less inclined to believe that their intention was ever to spend significant time in the UK. Harry's may have been, but not Meghan's. Covid is a convenient excuse, but when you have the resources they do, it's not a real impediment. Frogmore is plenty large enough for a comfortable quarantine, and it could be done without exposing staff - going two weeks without the carpets being vacuumed never killed anyone. The same is true of their Montecito house. I'm not suggesting they start flying back and forth every month, but most UK citizens who found themselves stranded abroad after a vacation came home one way or another a long time ago. All of their paid work (if they're doing any) is done online anyway, and could be done just as well from Windsor as Montecito. If they're worried about potentially exposing others, they can quarantine for two weeks before the trip as well as two weeks after. If they wanted to do it, they easily could have by now.

In their defense, I think the statements about their intent to split their time were made when they still have some aspirations of being part-time working royals. Once it was clear they weren't going to be working royals at all, they no longer had the same obligation to maintain a part-time residence or tell the public anything about their living arrangements. Still, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by being more clear about their intentions from the beginning.
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[.....]


Flying back and forth across the Atlantic during a pandemic is not convenient or easy. Putting a small child who is not old enough to safely wear a mask, through flights across the Atlantic, is not safe. This is not the case of an American being stranded on vacation, and returning home. You are suggesting they travel back and forth half way around the world during a pandemic.

Travel is meant to be restricted for 'neccessary travel'. Name one thing any royal does that is 'neccessary'?

If they didn't plan to use Frogmore, they could have worked out an arrangement to end their lease. They would not have paid off all of their renovations, and kept possession of it. People seem to be blinded by their hatred of Meghan that they think she plans to never allow her son and husband ever to go back to the UK. [.....]


You're right, their work is mainly online. And so is their Charity work. Majority of the royals charity work (even those in the UK right now) has been done on line. And with lockdowns going into place again, that will become more common again. So what does it matter if they do their charity visits to Smart works from online in LA or from online in Windsor?

The queen and Prince Philip as well as Charles are all at risk age groups. Even if they brought Archie over he shouldn't be visiting them anyways.
 
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The way they're doing things with Frogmore Cottage is actually pretty smart. They're keeping options open that they do have a place to stay in future visits to the UK (for however long they deem to stay) and right now, its a perfect place for Eugenie and Jack to hang their hat as they await the birth of their first child. It's a secure place for the couple close to family at this time. With the option of subletting the cottage from H&M, they're not bound by a long, restrictive lease and that leaves them free to take time and decide on their own personal family home down the line.

We really don't know at all what Meghan's feelings are about returning to the UK for either short visits or long, monthly extended stays in the future. It's not even been a year since they've "exited stage left" and that exit was done amid the onslaught of the pandemic. it just makes sense to me that, all around, the perfect solution has been found for Frogmore Cotttage at this time.
 
MARG said:
Add: I am sure Harry has wanted, if not needed, to see his family after their having COVID but getting on an International flight to the UK has been impossible, even moreso now that the second wave of COVID has hit.

It's odd how those who state he could visit any time he wanted seem to conveniently forget that the entire World is in the grip of a vicious Pandemic.
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I just went to United.com (a major US carrier), plugged in some dates departing a week from today and returning two weeks later, and found loads of LAX-LHR trips in the $1200 range for economy. It might have been difficult a few months ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a while.

He can return if he wants to. It's possible he doesn't want to, but IMHO it's more likely that he's being manipulated into not going. If he has to quarantine for two weeks before seeing anyone, the trip would need to be at least three weeks to be worthwhile, and that's a long time for him to spend away from Meghan and Archie if they won't go with him.
 
Although it may be possible to actually book and travel to the UK at this time, it doesn't mean that its a wise idea to do so. CNN is reporting that the cases of infections from this virus is skyrocketing and is spreading "faster and bolder" than ever before. Americans are even being urged to *not* travel for the Thanksgiving holiday that happens this upcoming week and to not gather and remain in "bubbles" for our own safety.

I'm going way out on a limb here and suggest that that the pandemic and the guidelines set out globally have been the first and foremost reason for just why Harry and Meghan (and Archie) have not returned to the UK at all. It had absolutely nothing to do with want, need or manipulation or family feuds. Like the rest of us and even like the rest of the British royal family, this couple has enough common sense and intelligence to do what they can to avoid becoming infected and infecting other people and unnecessary travel is not anywhere near their playbook at this time.

I do also believe we'd have seen some completely different scenarios over the past year with Harry and Meghan if the pandemic had never happened.
 
UglyAmerican said:
I just went to United.com (a major US carrier), plugged in some dates departing a week from today and returning two weeks later, and found loads of LAX-LHR trips in the $1200 range for economy. It might have been difficult a few months ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a while.

He can return if he wants to. It's possible he doesn't want to, but IMHO it's more likely that he's being manipulated into not going. If he has to quarantine for two weeks before seeing anyone, the trip would need to be at least three weeks to be worthwhile, and that's a long time for him to spend away from Meghan and Archie if they won't go with him.
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Obviously there was a lot of confusion happening at the beginning of the pandemic where we didn’t know whether we were dealing with something short-term or longer-term, but if the Sussexes had truly wanted to come back to England they would have done it in mid-March when countries were urging their nationals vacationing or temporarily living abroad to return home. But they didn’t- they moved to California. This indicates (at least to me) that they were setting their future in the LA area since if they were going to be stuck somewhere long term, that’s where they wanted it to be rather than Windsor. Barring some major emergency it would be very unwise for them to travel back the UK even though there are flights available (which I’m sure are mostly being run for people who have to make those urgent trips and not people wanting to vacation or see family).
 
angieuk said:
If its unlikely they will ever be back; and if they do, they can stay in a million other places; why don't they just let the cottage go; move on, and leave it for people who want to live there, and appreciate living there. What's the point of holding onto a property that's thousands of miles away!!
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Covering all the bases, I suppose.
 
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It all hinges now on how soon that vaccination can be ready and distributing it. I hope it all goes well.
 
Osipi said:
The way they're doing things with Frogmore Cottage is actually pretty smart. They're keeping options open that they do have a place to stay in future visits to the UK (for however long they deem to stay) and right now, its a perfect place for Eugenie and Jack to hang their hat as they await the birth of their first child. It's a secure place for the couple close to family at this time. With the option of subletting the cottage from H&M, they're not bound by a long, restrictive lease and that leaves them free to take time and decide on their own personal family home down the line.

We really don't know at all what Meghan's feelings are about returning to the UK for either short visits or long, monthly extended stays in the future. It's not even been a year since they've "exited stage left" and that exit was done amid the onslaught of the pandemic. it just makes sense to me that, all around, the perfect solution has been found for Frogmore Cotttage at this time.
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Sure.

It's their future home and it wouldn't surprise me if after her maternity late that Eugenie begins doing royal visits in her own right.
 
Sandy345 said:
It all hinges now on how soon that vaccination can be ready and distributing it. I hope it all goes well.
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:flowers: I'm sure I'll get in trouble for saying something again off topic but if they can hold their water at the earliest a shot should be available in January. And at the latest in April. That's what they're saying.
 
UglyAmerican said:
I just went to United.com (a major US carrier), plugged in some dates departing a week from today and returning two weeks later, and found loads of LAX-LHR trips in the $1200 range for economy. It might have been difficult a few months ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a while.

He can return if he wants to. It's possible he doesn't want to, but IMHO it's more likely that he's being manipulated into not going. If he has to quarantine for two weeks before seeing anyone, the trip would need to be at least three weeks to be worthwhile, and that's a long time for him to spend away from Meghan and Archie if they won't go with him.
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The issue isn't travelling during Covid. I think that that would be foolish and risky. The issue is that many feel that he and Meg never seriously intended to spend long periods of time in the UK after they departed, and that they will only come back for brief visits to see teh family or at least his father and to do the odd charity visit.. when it becomes possible again. but that sits rather ill with Harry's claim that he had wanted to "serve" and also have his own life and earn an income for himself... I thought that getting away from the UK and making an income was the priorty, and that with a small child they would not be able to divide their time evenly between the 2 places and ways of life. And I doubt if Meghan ever intended to stick out the UK even for 5 or 6 months of each year..

poppy7 said:
Sure.

It's their future home and it wouldn't surprise me if after her maternity late that Eugenie begins doing royal visits in her own right.
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I doubt it. Im sure charles doesnt want to take on new workers, regardless of having lost Harry and Meghan. And I doubt if Eugenie who has a job, and will have a baby soon will wnat to take it on.
 
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Imo they are a bit caught between a rock and a hard place with regards to "what their intentions were when they announced the split" vs "what they *can* do at the moment due to the pandamic", and it's impossible to judge this at the moment..

However i feel quite safe to say that if they would travel to the UK now (unless it's due to a tragic family event like a funeral, which we hope won't occur any time soon), they would be criticized by the media and a lot of us here on these forums, because indeed, then it would be non-essential travel.

Just think of the backlash dutch king and queen got for flying to holiday in greece (they ended their holiday and flew back), and the exposure of H&M is a *lot* bigger than for the dutch RF, so if they did travel, the forum mods would probably have to make new threads for us to keep everything manageable ?
 
IMO , regardless of who's name is on the lease, it negates any criticism that a house is lying empty after thousands of pounds spent on a renovation and decoration.
It doesn't matter who paid for the renovation or the decoration it looks bad.
 
Just my speculation, I think with no COVID they would probably have wanted to come back for things like Trooping and some high profile visits to their patronages and maybe any of the Commonwealth events. It seems extremely clear Harry was desperate to participate in Remembrance Sunday for a number of reasons. Their Zoom talks and photoshoots make it clear they still consider themselves *their* version of half in half out.

Whether they would actually have been invited to or welcome at many of those official Firm events is another thing entirely. Especially as they would also have hit the "vote for change, you know who we mean..." button even harder and Archewell/Travalyst/their branded line and whatever else would have been fully launched.

They might have used Frogmore if they theoretically intended to stay for a few weeks in early Summer but I agree with Denville and others it was never intended to be a 50/50 split. As it stands with their new house in California and the pandemic there's almost no chance of them returning any time soon unless for a funeral so it makes perfect sense for a young family who *do* want to be in Windsor possibly on a semi permanent basis, to use it.
 
Heavs said:
Just my speculation, I think with no COVID they would probably have wanted to come back for things like Trooping and some high profile visits to their patronages and maybe any of the Commonwealth events. It seems extremely clear Harry was desperate to participate in Remembrance Sunday for a number of reasons. Their Zoom talks and photoshoots make it clear they still consider themselves *their* version of half in half out.

Whether they would actually have been invited to or welcome at many of those official Firm events is another thing entirely. Especially as they would also have hit the "vote for change, you know who we mean..." button even harder and Archewell/Travalyst/their branded line and whatever else would have been fully launched.

They might have used Frogmore if they theoretically intended to stay for a few weeks in early Summer but I agree with Denville and others it was never intended to be a 50/50 split. As it stands with their new house in California and the pandemic there's almost no chance of them returning any time soon unless for a funeral so it makes perfect sense for a young family who *do* want to be in Windsor possibly on a semi permanent basis, to use it.
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well I'm sure that Harry wanted to take part in Remembrance Sunday for SOME good reasons but their whole trend in the past year has shown where their priorities lay. Once Covid hit and the borders were closing they headed for the USA not for England.. They wanted to be on the spot to start their new working life in the USA as soon as it became possible. And Harry IMO also wanted to be seen with Meg at Rem Sunday and charity events because I'm sure he realised that it didn't look good if they abruptly dropped UK charities nd took to a life of glam work and philanthropy in the USA. Which was why he staged that Rem Sunday 2 weeks ago.
So if Covid hadn't happened, I think they would have come home for a couple of weeks at a time to do a few charity events and see the family.. to keep their names in the press and to try and show that they "still cared for their UK charities and didn't intend to drop them." but over time I think that interest in the UK charities would have had to give way to the realities of money making work in LA and Archie getting older and needing to be at school etc...
 
angieuk said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...l-hand-Frogmore-without-knowledge-royals.html

Family members in the dark, about the deal!
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If it turns out that the Sussexes are indeed subletting Frogmore Cottage to partially cover the reimbursement of the renovation costs, then I think there will be a big backlash against them.


Having said that, I find it highly unlikely that Eugenie and Jack would move into a Crown Estate property without the knowledge and consent of the Queen even if the property is now leased to the Sussexes as it has been claimed here (and, I suppose, also in the DM article). I don't think either that H&M would be able to make a deal with E&J to pay rent on the property without consulting the Queen first.
 
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So, it's better for the British public to believe that Eugenie and Jack should stay in her cousin's property without paying anything? And we don't know that any rent is to paid anyway, or how much.

The Sussexes agreed to pay a monthly ongoing rental and maintenance fee on the property when they left in March and any rent may well cover that.

Would that arrangement satisfy the British public who, now taxpayers are not involved, don't have a leg to stand on anyway? Or is Eugenie such a great favourite with the public that any rent she paid Harry would be wrong? That, plainly, is ridiculous!

We don't know when the Queen was told but Harry and Eugenie may well have worked out a basic arrangement and then consulted their grandmother about it and she then gave her permission.
 
Haha...leave it to the Daily Mail to milk a story by providing multiple spins to it.
angieuk said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...l-hand-Frogmore-without-knowledge-royals.html

Family members in the dark, about the deal!
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This is plain and simply laughable. For the following reasons.

1. The announcement 2 days ago made it clear that members of the RF were in on the discussions about the move.

2. Both properties are part of the Crown Estate. Therefore the Queen and the deputy head of the palace's property department are kept in the loop about which properties are occupied and when they will become vacant so as to open them up for additional use.

3. The Daily Mail hates the Sussexes so it this new spin on the story is no surprise that they're trying to paint the couple as rogue. However, Eugenie has shown and publicly stated that she has absolute love and respect for her granny- the Queen. It would be out of character for her move between royal properties without speaking with the Queen about it first.
 
Curryong said:
So, it's better for the British public to believe that Eugenie and Jack should stay in her cousin's property without paying anything? And we don't know that any rent is to paid anyway, or how much.

The Sussexes agreed to pay a monthly ongoing rental and maintenance fee on the property when they left in March and any rent may well cover that.

Would that arrangement satisfy the British public who, now taxpayers are not involved, don't have a leg to stand on anyway? Or is Eugenie such a great favourite with the public that any rent she paid Harry would be wrong? That, plainly, is ridiculous!

We don't know when the Queen was told but Harry and Eugenie may well have worked out a basic arrangement and then consulted their grandmother about it and she then gave her permission.
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Obviously I can't speak for the British people (as I am not British), but judging from the comments in the DM, it seems that most people would have been satisfied if any rights that the Sussexes had over Frogmore Cottage had been simply terminated following the reimbursement of the renovation costs.

The backlash comes, I think, from the fact that not only did they apparently keep the lease, even though they have no plans to come back to the UK on a permanent basis, but also are now apparently profiting from it by subletting the property to the Brooksbanks. The rent might cover not only the maintenance costs, but also enable the Sussexes to partiallly recoup over time the money they paid back to the Treasury.
 
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Mbruno said:
If it turns out that the Sussexes are indeed subletting Frogmore Cottage to partially cover the reimbursement of the renovation costs, then I think there will be a big backlash against them.


Having said that, I find it highly unlikely that Eugenie and Jack would move into a Crown Estate property without the knowledge and consent of the Queen even if the property is now leased to the Sussexes as it has been claimed here (and, I suppose, also in the DM article). I don't think either that H&M would be able to make a deal with E&J to pay rent on the property without consulting the Queen first.
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This is the original story.

BP seems nonplussed about it, but I find it disrespectful to HM...I’m also rolling my eyes at the idea of a new “Fab Four”.

Code: 
An insider said: “Senior royals were initially blindsided by the idea for Harry and Meg to let Eugenie and Jack move in.

“Obviously the Queen was told after the couples had spoken about the plan
.




https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13262972/harry-meghan-frogmore-cottage-deal-secret/
 
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