Swedish Line of Succession

[Josefine]

During the time when a Bernadotte have been on the throne there has benen 11 at the maximum

 

[Madame Verseau]

But Sweden is a liberal country though, when it comes to this issue. During the last five decades, the status of the illegitimate have increased. I don't even think a royal having an illegitimate would raise too many eyebrows anymore.

To be a successor to the Swedish throne the child has to be born in wedlock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_Swedish_throne

Meaning, if any member of the SRF has a child that was a result of a hook up, fling, long term affair without benefit of clergy at the end is ineligible for the throne.

 

[xenobia]

To be a successor to the Swedish throne the child has to be born in wedlock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_Swedish_throne

Meaning, if any member of the SRF has a child that was a result of a hook up, fling, long term affair without benefit of clergy at the end is ineligible for the throne.

This is quite interesting! I've always assumed that children born out of wedlock can't inherit the throne. But the law text about the line of succession doesn't mention anything about that. I've read it twice now, and can't find a paragraph about this.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Here's the link to the Swedish Act of Succession:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Act_of_Succession

The bullet points are as follows:

Only children born in wedlock may inherit the Throne.

Only the descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf may inherit the Throne.

A prince or princess in the line of succession shall belong to and profess the "pure evangelical faith", as defined in the Unaltered Augsburg Confession and the Uppsala Meeting of 1591, i.e. by implication the Church of Sweden.

The offspring of an approved marriage must be brought up within Sweden.

A prince or princess may not marry and remain in the line of succession without having received consent, upon application of the Monarch, from the Government of Sweden.

A prince or princess is also prevented from becoming monarch of another country, either by election or marriage, without the consent of the Monarch and the Government.

If any of these provisions are violated: all rights of succession for the person concerned and all descendants are lost.

It's not clear what constitute "legitimate"? Does the child have to be conceived and born in wedlock?

 

[xenobia]

But that's not the Swedish Act of succession, it's a wikipedia article in english, and also just a summary. This is the law text in swedish: https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokumen...ng/Successionsordning-18100926_sfs-1810-0926/

I read it twice, and my university major was in history. I still can't see something in there that explicitly says that the child has to be born in wedlock. It talks about "bröstarvingar", but that just means children and grandchildren. The only explanation I can think of right now is that the word "bröstarvingar" meant "children within marriage" when the text was written, but that the word has now changed its meaning.

Edit: I think I found it! The text just before the paragraphs says "... hans kungl. höghets JOHAN BAPTIST JULII, furstens av Ponte-Corvo, äkta manliga bröstarvingar". The word "äkta" could be translated to "legitimate".

 

[Meraude]

In the bernadotte era as most there 11 in line to the throne
31th october 1916, prince Carl Johan is born

HRH The Crown Prince, Duke of Skåne (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1982)
HRH Duke of Västerbotten, (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1906)
HRH Duke of Uppland (prince Sigvard born 1907)
HRH Princess Ingrid (born 1910)
HRH Duke of Halland (prince Bertil born 1912)
HRH Duke of Dalarna (prince Carl Johan born 1916)
HRH Duke of Södermanland (prince Wilhelm born 1984)
HRH Duke of Småland (prince Lennart born 1909)
HRH Duke of Västmanland (prince Erik born 1989)
HRH Duke of Västergötland (prince Carl born 1861)
HRH Princess Margaretha (bron 1899)
HRH Princess Märtha (born 1901)
HRH Princess Astrid (born 1905)
HRH Duke of Östergötland (prince Carl jr born 1911)
HRH Duke of Närke (prince Eugen born [-]1965[/-]1865)

I wonder what the list would look like if girls were included

Shouldn't HM The Queen Dowager of Denmark, born HRH princess Lovisa of Sweden, also be on that list? I would guess that she had her father's permission to marry the future king of Denmark, and thus still be in the Order of Succession, if females had been permitted then. If so, wouldn't all of her children and her grandchildren (in 1916 eight children and nine more grandchildren than the four on the list above) also be in the Order of Succession? Among those children and grandchildren would have been the king of Denmark, the king of Norway, the crown prince of Denmark (the future husband of Ingrid), the crown prince of Norway (the future husband of Märtha) and the wife of the duke of Västergötland.

 

[Madame Verseau]

The monarchy of Sweden consists only of Carl Gustaf, his children, grandchildren and the descendants of his line. The Haga princesses and their children are not considered successors to the throne, as I understand it. Given that, I wonder if any pressure was put on Victoria, Carl Philip or Madeleine to continue the Bernadotte line when they married - Victoria because she's the heir, Carl Philip to continue the Bernadotte name in the traditional sense and Madeleine just to have another line of spares. And their choices - I wonder if one of the factors that was considered before the king and the Riksdag signed off on their joining the SRF was the ability to father or conceive a child. If that were true and if a prince or princess' choice was unable to produce an heir, would that have been a disqualifer? As I read the law an adopted child could not be a successor, only legitimate (born of a marriage) children of the blood royal.

Back to legitimacy. I think that was put into the law not-so-royal children that are the result of a hook up, fling or long term affair cannot go to court and sue for succession rights.

 

[Josefine]

on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince X
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born

 

[Bine221]

As we soon will have a 10th person in line of succession (Madeleines 3rd child), the Swedish Line of Succession is one of the healthiest since last century... thanks to the chance of law to female succession/primogeniture
BYe Bine

 

[An Ard Ri]

For so many years it was just the kings 3 children,how it continues to grow!

 

[xenobia]

For so many years it was just the kings 3 children,how it continues to grow!

And before that, from 1973 to 1977, there was only one person in line besides the king: prince Bertil, who didn't have any children. So I think that the king is very well aware of how serious the situation was for the monarchy just a few decades ago, and that gives him another reason to be happy for every grandchild that arrives. Personally I think that this is the reason why it was so important that Madeleines (and later on also Carl Philips) children received titles and was included in the line of succession.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ

 

[Stefan]

The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ

The problem with you scenario is that the swedish King can not create noble Titles. He can only decide about the Title Prince/Princess and which Dukedom they will get.
The Title Count Bernadotte the Princes who lost their Title after their marriage got was created by the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg.

 

[Josefine]

on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born[/QUOTE]

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between February 20th, 1932 and march 8th, 1934

The record in with 11 princes in line for the Swedish throne
oktober 31th, 1916 -20 september 20th, 1918,

 

[Mbruno]

on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born

I suspect Madeleine's children will eventually be dropped from the line of succession as Chris won't agree to move back permanently to Sweden when the children reach school age. Then I assume they will lose the titles of "prince/princess of Sweden", being probably known instead as "Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte", without the HRH style and the respective duchy, but that is just speculative thinking on my part.

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between 1932 February 20th and 1934 march 8th[/QUOTE]

 

[Madame Verseau]

I think with so many successors to the Silver Throne the Riksdag will take matters into its own hands about who gets HRH and who gets appanage for tax and other financial considerations. As of now there are seven members of the king's immediate family that do not have a chance to ascend to the throne unless there is a horrible tragedy. I can see the Riskdag saying no appanage for the Prince Family and the Princess Family with exception that Carl Philip will receive money from the government when he would have to act as regent during Estelle's minority. The law was drastically changed in 1979 to take the heir apparent title away from CP.

 

[Countessmeout]

I suspect Madeleine's children will eventually be dropped from the line of succession as Chris won't agree to move back permanently to Sweden when the children reach school age. Then I assume they will lose the titles of "prince/princess of Sweden", being probably known instead as "Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte", without the HRH style and the respective duchy, but that is just speculative thinking on my part.

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between 1932 February 20th and 1934 march 8th

[/QUOTE]

There is no reason they would lose their titles simply their unnecessary now places in succession. Their duchies were bestowed by grandpa and its up to him and not parliament or any rule.

But wouldn't rule out the kids going to school in Sweden. Isn't Leonor said to be enrolled in a Swedish preschool when in Stockholm?

 

[Skippy]

The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ

I thought that you would be happy with Prince Carl Philip having another son? Since he is the only one able to carry on the Bernadotte bloodline. Take Carl Philip away and the Bernadottes are gone. And no, Prince Daniel having added Bernadotte to his name doesn't count.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And no, Prince Daniel having added Bernadotte to his name doesn't count.

Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden, did not transfer his middle name of Westling to his children, who are only Bernadottes.

 

[Skippy]

Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden, did not transfer his middle name of Westling to his children, who are only Bernadottes.

In name maybe, but by blood Oscar carries on the Westling line. Simply because his father is one.
Carl Philip and now Alexander and Gabriel are the only ones able to carry the bloodline back to the start of the House of Bernadotte.
That's as simple as it is, just look at the family tree.

 

[Stefan]

I think with so many successors to the Silver Throne the Riksdag will take matters into its own hands about who gets HRH and who gets appanage for tax and other financial considerations. As of now there are seven members of the king's immediate family that do not have a chance to ascend to the throne unless there is a horrible tragedy. I can see the Riskdag saying no appanage for the Prince Family and the Princess Family with exception that Carl Philip will receive money from the government when he would have to act as regent during Estelle's minority. The law was drastically changed in 1979 to take the heir apparent title away from CP.

It would be easier if the Riksdag would allow the monarch to give noble Titles to the people in line of succession/Royal House like it is the case in Denmark.
As for the Apanage as i understand Carl Philip and Madeleine now only get money from the Apanage when the perfiorm duties on behalf of the King/Royal House.
I also doubt it will be made sure that the children of Carl Phioklip and Madeleine will have to earn the own Money and get a Job.

 

[xenobia]

In name maybe, but by blood Oscar carries on the Westling line. Simply because his father is one.
Carl Philip and now Alexander and Gabriel are the only ones able to carry the bloodline back to the start of the House of Bernadotte.
That's as simple as it is, just look at the family tree.

I don't think I understand this. If it's blood that's important, then the child has 50/50 from the mother and father. The "blood line" would then be equally valid no matter if it's the father or mothers last name on the paper.

 

[Skippy]

I don't think I understand this. If it's blood that's important, then the child has 50/50 from the mother and father. The "blood line" would then be equally valid no matter if it's the father or mothers last name on the paper.

It derives from the (old-fashioned) patrilineal line. Females can't carry on, for their offspring will be added to their husband's family.

That's why I say that Carl Philip, Alexander and now Gabriel are the sole ones continuing the Bernadotte bloodline.

 

[Marengo]

A rather archaic concept that does not take into account the law. With your reasoning the houses of Habsburg, Romanov, Orange-Nassau, Nassau-Weilburg etc. do not exist.

 

[Skippy]

A rather archaic concept that does not take into account the law. With your reasoning the houses of Habsburg, Romanov, Orange-Nassau, Nassau-Weilburg etc. do not exist.

True, this post from The Scandinavian Royals Message Board mentions the same:

By Robert Warholm:
"[FONT=verdana, arial][FONT=verdana, arial]I agree. That would have made it possible to keep the throne for the Bernadotte dynasty. Yes, I know that people change their names so they can pretend to be Bernadottes, but genealogically, that is not correct. The House of Romanov, the House of Habsburg and The House of Nassau are extinct. The Prince of Wales is really not a Windsor. The senior Windsor when the current Queen is gone will be the Duke of Gloucester. Crown Princess Victoria will be the last Bernadotte on the Swedish throne, but the dynasty will live on through Prince Carl Philip and his sons.

That being said, I think that CP Victoria will made a better Monarchy than Prince Carl Philip would."

I share this opinion, as much disagreement as possible it may provide.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Marengo]

That may be the opinion of the poster, but it is based on a fantasy and not on reality. There is no legal basis for his claim. With such an opinion one ignores that our societies are ruled by the law and not on -what is now an outdated- concept of 'genealogy'. If we would deny law all together, there would not be a house of Bernadotte as the Baden family would be the genealogical heirs of the house of Wasa.

Likewise, if we deny the law, there would be no house of Orange -or Amsberg if you want- in the Netherlands but our ruler would be King Felipe VI and there would be no house of Windsor but the Duke of Bavaria would be ruling over England and Scotland.

It may be nice to daydream about such matters and it may be an interesting work-out in royal genealogy, but it has nothing to do with the reality in which we live. And that reality is that the main branch of the house of Bernadotte will continue through the crown princess and her offspring.

 

[Fijiro]

Crown Princess Victoria is a Bernadotte not a Sommerlath
in the same logic Princess Estelle & Prince Oscar are Westling not Bernadotte

 

[xenobia]

Crown Princess Victoria is a Bernadotte not a Sommerlath
in the same logic Princess Estelle & Prince Oscar are Westling not Bernadotte

You have the right to that opinion. I would say that most swedes sees the thing quite differently. Victoria is as much a Sommerlath as she is a Bernadotte, and Estelle/Oscar are just as much Bernadotte as they are Westling.

It really doesn't matter who's last name you have - you are still equal parts from your father and mother. That is reflected in the name laws here in Sweden. Whey you get married, there are several options. Both can keep their last names. Both can have hers or his name. Or you can chose a new last name (within some boundaries). The question of last name isn't a big thing here.

 

[JR76]

That may be the opinion of the poster, but it is based on a fantasy and not on reality. There is no legal basis for his claim. With such an opinion one ignores that our societies are ruled by the law and not on -what is now an outdated- concept of 'genealogy'. If we would deny law all together, there would not be a house of Bernadotte as the Baden family would be the genealogical heirs of the house of Wasa.

Likewise, if we deny the law, there would be no house of Orange -or Amsberg if you want- in the Netherlands but our ruler would be King Felipe VI and there would be no house of Windsor but the Duke of Bavaria would be ruling over England and Scotland.

It may be nice to daydream about such matters and it may be an interesting work-out in royal genealogy, but it has nothing to do with the reality in which we live. And that reality is that the main branch of the house of Bernadotte will continue through the crown princess and her offspring.

Well, actually after the death of Queen Carola of Saxony in 1907 and then the death of her cousin's son Grand Duke Friedrich II of Baden in 1928 the main line of inheritance from the House of Holstein-Gottorp went to his sister Victoria, by then Queen of Sweden, uniting the two royal lines.
Added to that the family's claim to the throne was quite distant at the time Adolf Fredrik of Holstein-Gottorp was elected Crown prince going back to the early 1600s. The closest heir to the House of Pfalz-Zweibrucken and through them the House of Vasa was the grandson of Karl XI, Duke Peter of Holstein-Gottorp (another branch than Adolf Fredrik). Although favoured by both his great-grandmother Queen Dowager Hedvig Eleonora and his uncle King Karl XII Peter was sidelined by his aunt Ulrika Eleonora and never reached the throne though his son Paul ended up in Russia instead where he, when becoming emperor, founded the House of Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov. By a few twists of fate we have a Bernadotte on the Swedish throne and the main heir to King Gustav I Vasa among the Ilyinskys in Florida.

 

[Mbruno]

You have the right to that opinion. I would say that most swedes sees the thing quite differently. Victoria is as much a Sommerlath as she is a Bernadotte, and Estelle/Oscar are just as much Bernadotte as they are Westling.

It really doesn't matter who's last name you have - you are still equal parts from your father and mother. That is reflected in the name laws here in Sweden. Whey you get married, there are several options. Both can keep their last names. Both can have hers or his name. Or you can chose a new last name (within some boundaries). The question of last name isn't a big thing here.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in some countries such as Belgium, children can now legally take their father's family name, or their mother's, or both (the latter in any order they choose, i.e the maternal family name followed by the paternal one, or vice-versa). So basically, the patrilineal rule as the standard for family naming conventions no longer applies. I don't know how the law in Sweden works, but, in any case, Daniel changed his last name to Bernadotte and, even under the patrilineal rule, his children are legally Bernadottes rather than Westlings.

Personally, I understand that traditionalists might be against those kinds of "tricks", but, if they feel so strongly about keeping the throne within the same family (as defined in a strictly patrilineal sense), then they should accordingly support male-preference primogeniture, or even agnatic primogeniture., as it used to be the case in the past. One can't really have equal primogeniture and expect at the same time that the succession will be always confined to the same patrilineal dynasty.