Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)

[snowflower]

Originally Posted by Russophile

I don't think Alix was going to let ANY of her daughters marry. Funny, she acted a lot like Victoria and Queen Alexandra in that respect.

Nicholas did have some ideas in his head about finding a match for his daughters. All the three older girls had at some point an innocent, teenage crush on Dimitri Pavlovits and Nicholas didn't seem to consider him a bad option - until he started hanging around with Felix Yousoupov. But they had very high stardards for their girls, especially Alexandra who demanded a suitor with an impeccable moral standing - something somehow difficult among the Romanov Princes and Grand Dukes of the time. On the other hand , none of the girls seemed to wish to marry abroad. Olga said it , when Carol came ,that she would only marry a Russian and stay forever at home.I do believe that some of them would most problably become old maid but I highly doubt that Anastasia would stay forever at home next to Motherdear like Toria did with Alexandra.
The fun would be to guess about who they would consider for Alexei if he survived into adulthoold , if they ever wished to let him marry.. THAT is what seems fun to me Although I guess that , despite him being the future Tsar, most of the princesses around wouldn't be very willing having Alexandra as a mother in law.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by snowflower

All the three older girls had at some point an innocent, teenage crush on Dimitri Pavlovits and Nicholas didn't seem to consider him a bad option - until he started hanging around with Felix Yousoupov. But they had very high stardards for their girls, especially Alexandra who demanded a suitor with an impeccable moral standing - something somehow difficult among the Romanov Princes and Grand Dukes of the time. .

Dmitry was in love with Countess Brassov (per Crawford's bok on Mischa). I suppose, like Felix he would have done his duty though I don't see N & A as being happy with that attitude. I am sure they wanted their girls to marry for love as they did.

COUNTESS, here's a what if: What if they (The GD's and Duchesses) were successful in putting Alexandra in a convent do you think they would have been able to stop the Revolution?

[Hereditary Thane]

Many years ago the Earl Mountbatten of Burma (born a nobleman of Hesse and a great grandson of Queen Victoria) made a BBC biographical documentary in which he recounted visits to Russia and his Romanov cousins. In many respects he was an arrogant man in private life. His claim that he had been picked out as a suitable future husband for GD Anastasia must be viewed with suspicion: he was her cousin for sure, but as a morganatic and an unequal at the time it is unlikely. Perhaps he was used to the liberal rules of his great grandmother's and great uncle's court. The Bitish royals have survived because they were able to adapt.

[COUNTESS]

Oh, Russo, I don't know. The clock was ticking, there was so much damage. The murder of GD Sergei, was, certainly, a big warning shot. She didn't change then. Your question is if she wasn't there could things have been different? I am thinking about this. Sandro accused Alix of insisting on her autocratic way. Could he and his cousins changed anything. Could they have guided Nicholas to a more reasonable stance? I will ponder this. His uncles, obviously couldn't or didn't. 1905 was a bell ringer. No one stepped up to the plate. Supposition is always interesting.

[snowflower]

Originally Posted by Hereditary Thane

Many years ago the Earl Mountbatten of Burma (born a nobleman of Hesse and a great grandson of Queen Victoria) made a BBC biographical documentary in which he recounted visits to Russia and his Romanov cousins. In many respects he was an arrogant man in private life. His claim that he had been picked out as a suitable future husband for GD Anastasia must be viewed with suspicion: he was her cousin for sure, but as a morganatic and an unequal at the time it is unlikely. Perhaps he was used to the liberal rules of his great grandmother's and great uncle's court. The Bitish royals have survived because they were able to adapt.

I find it very hard to take this claims seriously. Anastasia was too young to earmark a husband for her, especially when the parents weren't even in arush to marry the older ones. Besides, not only was he a poor morganatic prince but also a first cousin to Anastasia and I can't really believe that Nicholas was that much fond of Earl Mountabatten that he would be willing to defy both the Fundamendal Laws of his House and the teachings and rules of Russian Orthodox Church .

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Supposition is always interesting.

It is, indeed, isn't it??
And what if they had let the population know that the heir had haemophilia so the population would be sympathetic to the IF??

[COUNTESS]

I think, so. A mother, struggling to keep her beautiful son alive. This fragile child would belong to all of them. Some of her demeanor would have been explained and people tend to see genuine pain and concern. He was Russia's future Tsar, if he lived. They would have become a family, the people and the Tsarina and the rest of the family. The wall they built did not allow for that closeness. Perhaps, her haughtiness would have tempered. Perhaps, people would have rallied around her. Like a Madonna and child. See, supposition is always interesting.

[snowflower]

Or, things could turn out as worse as they did. All the powers that supported autocracy might not be willing to have a fragile sickly man as their future Tsar and depose Nicholas or force him to abdicate for another one. Or one of their cousins who didn't knew (because not many people really knew what was really going on even inside the family - they could see that something was wrong with Alexei but not exactly what) would find the chance and organize a coup to get the purple for himself - Marie Pavlova's sons come to mind . Or the revolutionary powers would use that to convice the masses that Alexei's haemophilia was indeed a punishment from God himself for their unworthy rulers. Who knows? Maybe things would have turn out just as bad as they did. I guess we ll never know.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Perhaps, people would have rallied around her. Like a Madonna and child. See, supposition is always interesting.

Perhaps pigs would fly? Yes it IS always interesting in supposition.
What if Alexander III had lived to a ripe age carrying them through the Great War and holding Russia together?? Now there's something to think about.

[snowflower]

I don't know about Russia, but I suspect taht if he had been around when Alexei was diagnosed, he would rule the whole family with an iron fist in order to eliminate danger. He would probably have asked Nicholas and Alexandra to try again for another bor, Michael would be forced to marry a suitable princess who would start having babies immediately and if Alx's nerves got shattered by taking care of Alexei and started looking desperate for help he would probably step in. I don't want to sound cynical or harsh but I suspect that if he was around when Rapsutin came, Rasputin would be exiled in a very remote place in Siberia and Alix would be sent to Livadia until she would "come to her senses".

[COUNTESS]

Alexander would never have tolerated a Rasputin. Alix would have been a shadow in his court. He loved his vivacious wife and never could have countenanced the dour, frightened Alix. Of course, she would have only been a Tsarivich's wife. He could have moved the heredity on to someone more suitable. He wouldn't have tolerated Nicky's indicision and handwringing. He might have had time to teach his son what to do. His graddaughter's would have married in a timely fashion. Everything would have been different.

[Russophile]

And they would have lived happily ever after.

[COUNTESS]

I doubt that, my friend. Time was never on their side. Alexander was strong, but the forces of revolution grew under him, too. Would he have been wise enough to stave them off and offer a new deal, so to speak? Who knows. I, always, saw a sense of practibility about him. But who knows. Supposition......

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Who knows. I, always, saw a sense of practibility about him.

That is interesting. I hadn't thought of that and that makes good sense. I agree.

So! Since time wasn't on their side, let's cue the Englebert Humperdink music of "Too Beautiful to Last" and roll all the myriad of pictures of OTMAA ad nauseum. . . . .

[persian85033]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Perhaps pigs would fly? Yes it IS always interesting in supposition.
What if Alexander III had lived to a ripe age carrying them through the Great War and holding Russia together?? Now there's something to think about.

This is something which I have always thought about. Would Alix have been, well, not different, but perhaps more accepted if she became tsarevna instead of tsarina right away? She'd have had time to learn, although she would never reach Minnie's level in popularity and all that. And she wouldn't have come behind a coffin.

[Russophile]

NOBODy could reach Minnie's level of popularity!

[Vasillisos Markos]

Alix would have benefited from having some time to learn "the ropes" before ascending the throne but I think her personality would still have worked against her to some degree in capturing the public's affection. All the biographies I have read repeatedly mention her being uncomfortable in public settings, that her illnesses, real and imagined, worked against her each time she attempted to reach out and hold court functions, etc. I don't think she was made of the right stuff.

[Russophile]

I agree, which is why I'm searching for the Van Der Kiste book where Vicky said about the same thing about Alix.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Originally Posted by Russophile

I agree, which is why I'm searching for the Van Der Kiste book where Vicky said about the same thing about Alix.

Her Aunt Vicky? What's this book, Russo... I don't know of it

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave

Her Aunt Vicky? What's this book, Russo... I don't know of it

Actually there are 2 I want to get by John Van Der Kiste:
The romanovs: 1818-1959 and
Princess Victoria Melita.


(BTW CL, did you know that Missy's daughter Mignon was GD Boris' child??)