Engagement of Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia & Nob. Rebecca Bettarini

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Queen Ester

I am sure if this discussed here before, but this will a morganatic marriage, right? So, their children will not be able to inherit the title?

There was no statement about titles of the children in the engagement announcement. But I cannot think of a case in European royal history when children inherited royal titles paternally without their mother (assuming she was still living and married to their father) also sharing the title of their father.

ETA: JR76 and Stefan thought of a couple of cases, referenced below.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

This is the first time that we have been informed what tiara a bride will wear before her actual wedding day occurs.

No.I remeber when the now Count of Paris married his bride Philomena also presented the tiara she would war beforehand.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Karl Emich lost his rights of Head of the House of Leiningen in 1991 when he married Renate Thyssen. She left him to marry the Aga Khan and divorced also.

The actual Head is his younger Brother Andreas.

Karl Emich is now Anton Bakhov 's Emperor Nicolas III , I don' t think he will be among the guests.

He did not marry Renate Thyssen-Henne (née Kerkhoff) but her daughter Gabriele from her marriage to Helmut Homey. Gabriele was adopted by Bodo Thyssen. After her marriage to Karl Emich was dissolved, she married the Aga Khan. After that marriage ended in divorce as well, she again took the name "Princess of Leiningen" as hers.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Most likely this is just a temporarily solution to save the face of Maria Vladimirovna Romanova, whose position is very much cemented on dynastic marriages.

But when Georg considers himself the Chef of the House,he can declare his own marriage dynastic. No problem.

Via paternal line he is HRH Prince Georg of Prussia anyway apart from any claimed Russian title.

Germany has no "styles" anymore and the "Prinz von Preussen" is just his name, not a Royal title.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

Germany has no "styles" anymore and the "Prinz von Preussen" is just his name, not a Royal title.

Officially that is. But at least Prinz von Preussen is a formal and recognized "surname" , registered in the municipal registers of an EU-memberstate.

"Grand-Prince of Russia" has no any legal status and is purely title by pretension. Any talk about dynastic or non-dynastic, morganatic or non-morganatic (these concepts have no value in Germany or Russia anyway) is purely theoretic.

Prinz von Preussen is the only real thing here.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Officially that is. But at least Prinz von Preussen is a formal and recognized "surname" , registered in the municipal registers of an EU-memberstate.

"Grand-Prince of Russia" has no any legal status and is purely title by pretension. Any talk about dynastic or non-dynastic, morganatic or non-morganatic (these concepts have no value in Germany or Russia anyway) is purely theoretic.

Prinz von Preussen is the only real thing here.

Can I ask what evidence there is that he is legally registered as Prinz von Preussen only?

There is a post from earlier in this thread which states that his legal surname is "Romanoff-grand-duc de Russie prinz von Preussen", and backs it up with a reference.

Originally Posted by Benjamin

George was born "Jorge prinz von Preussen Romanoff"; however, the year after the birth his mother filed a petition in France to have his last name changed to"Romanoff-grand-duc de Russie prinz von Preussen."

Source: Bulletin 11 -- 30 Sep 1982 of Cercle d'Etudes des Dynasties Royales Europeennes (published by J.F. Tourtchine)

[Kataryn]

I know that Germany regards noble titles from Poland, Lithuania and the other Baltic states as valid for German citizens to use them as part of their name. Never thought about how the authorities handle former Russian titles, though.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

I know that Germany regards noble titles from Poland, Lithuania and the other Baltic states as valid for German citizens to use them as part of their name. Never thought about how the authorities handle former Russian titles, though.

Could this have something to do with the numerous German speaking nobility that inhabited and held estates in these countries up until the end of WWII?

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

[...]But I cannot think of a case in European royal history when children inherited royal titles paternally without their mother (assuming she was still living and married to their father) also sharing the title of their father.

The only ones I can think of is the children of Leopold III of the Belgians and Lilian de Rethy. But, of course, that marriage was a bit unusual and the children were excluded from the line of succession.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by JR76

The only ones I can think of is the children of Leopold III of the Belgians and Lilian de Rethy. But, of course, that marriage was a bit unusual and the children were excluded from the line of succession.

butLiliana was also given the tilte Pricness of Belgium at somepoint but she didn't sue it.
There is also the case with Issue from the second marriageof Grand Duke Karl Freidrich ofBaden. His children where given succesion rigths and the titel Prince/Princness of Baden but their mother no. she remained Countess of Hochberg.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by JR76

Could this have something to do with the numerous German speaking nobility that inhabited and held estates in these countries up until the end of WWII?

I only found the law articles about that, but didn't read any reports about the discussions/reasoning behind it. But it seems plausible, yes.

[Kataryn]

Louis XiV. of France tried to give the male descendants of his affair with Mme de Montespan inheritance rights after his son (and the descendants) with Marie-Therese d'Autriche, the Spanish infanta he had married. It wasn't necessary and the Head of the Orleans-line of the Royal family took on the regency, but it was something the king tried to make into law.

[Benjamin]

Eurohistory: The Chaumet Lacis Tiara for the Russian Imperial Wedding in October!

The future Princess Victoria Romanovna Romanoff will be wearing a magnificent tiara created by Maison Chaumet when she marries Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia.

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot....r-russian.html

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Can I ask what evidence there is that he is legally registered as Prinz von Preussen only?

There is a post from earlier in this thread which states that his legal surname is "Romanoff-grand-duc de Russie prinz von Preussen", and backs it up with a reference.

No idea what his passport says but as legal son of the German citizen Franz Wilhelm Prinz von Preussen, our Georg can always request German citizenship and registration with his legal father's surname: Georg Prinz von Preussen.

It will be interesting to read the banns, seeing how the municipality of Saint-Petersburg registers groom and bride .

[Tatiana Maria]

I am not sure whether German regulations would allow a newly registered citizen to register with a different legal surname than their current one, but considering that Georgi uses only his mother's surname and title of pretense, and was registered as a child with both his mother's and his father's surnames/titles of pretense, I can't see any reason to think that Prinz von Preussen would be his only legally recognized surname today.

Note that the laws of Germany permit children to be registered with the surname of either legal parent.

I seem to remember hearing that he and his mother are designated with the surname Romanoff in their Russian passports, but I cannot find the source.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

No idea what his passport says but as legal son of the German citizen Franz Wilhelm Prinz von Preussen, our Georg can always request German citizenship and registration with his legal father's surname: Georg Prinz von Preussen.

It will be interesting to read the banns, seeing how the municipality of Saint-Petersburg registers groom and bride .

On his Russian passport, the Grand Duke bears the name Георгий Романов (Georgiy Romanov). As he only has Russian citizenship now, there is no likelihood at all that he would prefer otherwise.

Is Grand Duke George a Romanoff or a Hohenzollern? — The Russian Legitimist

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by Stefan

No.I remeber when the now Count of Paris married his bride Philomena also presented the tiara she would war beforehand.

Which tiara did Philomena select to wear?

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

On his Russian passport, the Grand Duke bears the name Георгий Романов (Georgiy Romanov). As he only has Russian citizenship now, there is no likelihood at all that he would prefer otherwise.

Is Grand Duke George a Romanoff or a Hohenzollern? — The Russian Legitimist

Interesting article. Just saying that there isn't a "House of Holstein" as the (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp-line is just a minor line of the Oldenburg-family. Just as the Danish, Norwegian and Greek Royal families are members of the Oldenburgs through the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-line.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Which tiara did Philomena select to wear?

a turqiose tiara from her Family.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

On his Russian passport, the Grand Duke bears the name Георгий Романов (Georgiy Romanov). As he only has Russian citizenship now, there is no likelihood at all that he would prefer otherwise.

Is Grand Duke George a Romanoff or a Hohenzollern? — The Russian Legitimist

Thank you for posting the source.

Originally Posted by Kataryn

Interesting article. Just saying that there isn't a "House of Holstein" as the (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp-line is just a minor line of the Oldenburg-family. Just as the Danish, Norwegian and Greek Royal families are members of the Oldenburgs through the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-line.

But both the royal houses of Denmark and Norway identify themselves as members of the House or Dynasty of Glücksburg, even if that house had its beginnings in a line which was even more insignificant than the Holstein line. The Swedish royal house of Bernadotte also identifies its predecessor as the House of Holstein-Gottorp.

The Danish Royal House acknowledges its membership of the House of Oldenburg with the inescutcheon of Oldenburg in their coat of arms (with the exception of Prince Joachim, who bears an inescutcheon of Oldenburg and Monpezat).