Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[Charlottesville]

So the conspiracy has to be so multifaceted that its different partners act on their own accord, simultaneously managing to keep everything secret for 80+ years?

Well in the case of Anna Anderson, it would have been more like 60+ years. I really can't say if there was a conspiracy or not, but I can say that for me personally the DNA tests did not manage to answer all my questions.

When I first read about the DNA tests, I was absolutely baffled by the results. I tried so hard to accept that Anna Anderson was not Anastasia and was Franziska Schanzkowska, but there is still so much that I can't understand. How could a Polish peasent have fooled those who were so close to Anastasia Nicholaevna, into being such supporters all throughout their life, such as Tatiana Botkin and Gleb Botkin, whose father was murdered with the family, as well as Lili Dehn, Empress Alexandra's best friend, into thinking she was the girl they once knew. No imposter in history has ever attained such recognition as this before. In there was the way the FS case was handled in court. An excerpt from Peter Kurth's "Anastasia":

"Doris Wingender brought 2 pictures out of her bag now. One depicted herself in 1920, wearing, she said, the famous blue suit she had given to Franziska in the summer of 1922, when Anastasia was missing from the home of Baron Von Kleist. The second showed Anastasia later on in Tiergarten. "You are going to see the same suit in this photograph," said Doris triumphantly, handing the photographs to the judge.
Weirkmeister looked at the picture in silence. Then he looked back at Doris and said with a frown, "But something has been erased in this picture of you." 'Yes,' said Doris, that was true. In the original photograph a man had been standing at her shoulder. "I had this removed because at the time certain wicked people were accusing me of having loose morals. Werkmeister sniffed. Then he passed the pictures around the courtroom, while lawyers and journalists stared at them both and shrugged their shoulders.
"You can easily see the two suits are identical," said Doris, unprompted, from the bar, "they've got the same buttons, the same belt..." But Werkmeister wasn't sure.
"Listen," said the judge, "we're going to get an expert opinion on these." Doris Wingender was exceedingly displeased to hear it.
...But Anastasia's friends were considerably pleased when, in 1958, the police experts at Hamburg-Altona delievered the report on Doris Wingender's pictures. The clothing in the two photographs, the police informed, was not only not identical, but on one of the suits, "the buttons and the belt have been drawn in after the fact."
The judges at Hamburg passed over this in total silence.
Another witness opposing Anna Anderson, Gerda Von Kleist, refused to take the oath when asked.
Martha Borkowska, an old aquaintance of Franziska Schanzkowska from Poland, had been called to reminisce. When presented with a stack of photographs, she recognized each one as Franziska except the one of Franziska.
....As for Doris, she wasn't up to form. She broke down under Wollman's attack, sobbing out and crying, "I can't anymore! I have the flu!"
Wollman would not let up. He had located a copy of Die Woche, the Berlin magazine in which, said Doris, she had first recognized Franziska Schanzkowska in a photograph of Anastasia.
"In this photograph?" Wollman asked.
"Yes,"
"And it was upon seeing this picture that you went off the the Nachtausgabe?"
"Yes. I don't feel well."
"And it was from this picture which allowed you to conclude that the invalid at Castle Seeon... was your Polish girl?"
"Yes."
"I suppose the 1500 marks weren't going to be paid out unless you made an identification."
"Correct. As soon as the identification was made."
Wollman handed the magazine to the judges. The photograph of Anastasia's face they saw, was little more than a smudge of ink.- a white blob with two black circles for eyes and another where the mouth was supposed to be.
"Why," said the judge, "from that you could recognize anybody or nobody."
Doris got the point. Dominique Aucleres observed she had gone 'white as a wall'.
"I'm sick," she cried. "I've got the flu."
"A chair for my witness," cried Berenburg-Gossler.
"You're going to take the oath," said Judge Peterson to Doris.
"I can't! I can't tonight. Take my pulse."
"Well," said Dominique Aucleres. "A judge isn't a hangman after all."
Wollman was furious "I want that oath given and given now!"
Bathge tried to calm him. "She'll be given the oath later by one of the Berlin magistates."
"Now!"
While they were arguing Doris Wingender slipped from the room. She never came back. And that, for all intents, was the end of the legend of Franziska Schanzkowska."

This is one question which will always baffle me.

 

[merchooker]

I commend everyone that has done research in this area. I'm of Ukrainian decent and the story of the escape of Anastasia has always facinated me. My mother told me the story of Anna Anderson when I was small and I just think that no one that was an imposter would know the details that she did. However, the story about the town in Bulgaria was very interesting. I don't think we'll ever know the truth. To me, the most important thing has always been believing that she somehow survived. To know that she lived, despite what was done to her, was greatest point.

 

[Charlottesville]

Another thing I would like to add- We do know that for a period of several months the tissue in Martha Jefferson Hospital could not be found. Where was it?

 

[Mapple]

Another thing I would like to add- We do know that for a period of several months the tissue in Martha Jefferson Hospital could not be found. Where was it?

I do not know, and what do you think?

 

[Charlottesville]

I do not know, and what do you think?

I don't know really as I wasn't there. But I feel that Anna Anderson's life has too many contradictions to be dismissed completely on the basis of tests on some tissue and hair samples.

 

[Charlottesville]

I can certainly understand ones point of view that no one could have survived, but according to all the executioner's reports, even after the murder was through one or all of the girls opened her eyes and screamed, thus the body of either Anastasia or Marie is missing. Why is it so impossible that no one could have survived? Personally, the only claimant in my opinion who had enough evidence to be taken seriously was and is Anna Anderson. She knew so many intimate details, although the possibilty could be that someone close to the Imperial Family could have told her. But of course there has yet to be any evidence of who if they exist, that would be. Many, such as Lili Dehn, Tatiana Botkin, and Gleb Botkin believed in her claims. These DNA tests conducted in 1994 were done only on alleged remains, the chain of custody which would never hold up in court. These tests also suggested she was Franziska Schanzkowska, a Polish factory worker whose family was once called on to identify Anna Anderson as their sister, but found absolutely no resemblance. How is this not somewhat suspicious?

1901- 1918?

I challenge everyone to read the pro-Anna book, "Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson" by Peter Kurth and the more recent skeptical book on Anastasia- Anna Anderson- "The Quest for Anastasia: Solving the Mystery of the Lost Romanovs" by John Klier and Helen Mingay.

 

[lord_rankin]

I once thought Anna Anderson was Anastasia but I think it was because I wanted to believe that when I was younger. Now looking at it, having done a lot of reading and research I don't beleive she was. Especially when you look at pictures. I just don't see much similarity between them at all.

 

[Charlottesville]

I once thought Anna Anderson was Anastasia but I think it was because I wanted to believe that when I was younger. Now looking at it, having done a lot of reading and research I don't beleive she was. Especially when you look at pictures. I just don't see much similarity between them at all.

You know, as much as I respect your opinion, I just don't agree. I think they do look enough alike to be the same person.

I personally don't think there is any reason for someone to WANT AA to be AN. I mean, really, what kind of life is that? But my gut feeling, when I see how difficult it was for the Romanovs and Hessians to try and discredit her, it makes me think, "There's something fishy here."

 

[lord_rankin]

My reason for wanting to believe Anna was Anastasia is the same reason so many other people wanted to believe her story...The hope that one of the members of that doomed family had escaped that horrible tragedy.

 

[Charlottesville]

My reason for wanting to believe Anna was Anastasia is the same reason so many other people wanted to believe her story...The hope that one of the members of that doomed family had escaped that horrible tragedy.

hmm.. That is interesting, but I personally think it would be horrible if they did escape, especially in the case of Anna Anderson, with relatives and nobles divided over her identity, and never recieving full recognition. Of course, there is the possibilty that she was an imposter, but then how did she know which pictures were painted by Gleb Botkin in Siberia, the rooms of the Alexander Palace if she had not been there, etc...

 

[Penny Lane]

Anna Anderson/Anastasia question

I know many believed Anna was Anastasia but I have looked at photos of both and just can't see the strong resemblance so many other have-am I misssing something?One other question isn't it now believed it was Marie that is missing along with Alexi not Anastasia? Of course I know many believe it to be Anastasia.

 

[Little_star]

I think it's actually been proven now that Anna Anderson was indeed a fake. I'll try and find some links for you.

 

[Little_star]

Anderson's body was cremated upon her death in 1984. Following Anderson's death, DNA tests were performed comparing Anderson's DNA to the known bloodline of Grand Duchess Anastasia. Repeated DNA tests confirmed with nearly absolute certainty that she was not related to the Russian Imperial Family.
LINK

It would have been fascinating if she were indeed Anastacia.

 

[Penny Lane]

I have studied this case a bit-no expert by any means and I do remember her being declared a fake-although it's interesting her supporters don't except the DNA results.I just can't see that they really looked much alike I also saw a bio on the youngest sister of the Czar Olga and she did not think Anna was her niece but as I think another aunt did believe her.It's a most interesting case I guess the fasinaction will continue.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Of course there are those who say that the DNA sample was deliberately swapped because the Soviet Regime wouldn't have wanted the Tsar's daughter wandering around.

 

[Penny Lane]

Anderson's body was cremated upon her death in 1984. Following Anderson's death, DNA tests were performed comparing Anderson's DNA to the known bloodline of Grand Duchess Anastasia. Repeated DNA tests confirmed with nearly absolute certainty that she was not related to the Russian Imperial Family.
LINK

It would have been fascinating if she were indeed Anastacia.

Thanks for the link up I don't think this will ever go away too many different opinions and no one answer that everyone accepts.

 

[EmpressRouge]

I was watching a PBS special on the mystery of Anastasia about 10 years ago. It was believed that Anderson was in fact a Polish (?) factory worker. They compared Anderson DNA with that of a blood relative of the Polish girl, and they DID match.

Some close of the Anastasia's close childhood friends that met Anderson claimed she was indeed the Grand Duchess because she knew certain secrets and had a certain regal bearing. However, her closest relatives (e.g. her aunt Grand Duchess Olga) who met Anderson said she was a fraud.

 

[Penny Lane]

I think I saw that PBS special too I also saw one recently on the National Geographic channel the Russain scientis say it is Marie(or is it Maria) who is missing they did test matching the victims skulls to photographs-numorus photos but Amrican scientist using a different test that says age can be determined by the vertebre says the missng daughter is Anastasia.No wonder the debate goes on! I don't know why some want to believe it's more likely to be Anastasia's body that is missing it really dosen't matter I don't think any of them made it out alive and if one did why couldn't it be Marie.

 

[acdc1]

I was watching a PBS special on the mystery of Anastasia about 10 years ago. It was believed that Anderson was in fact a Polish (?) factory worker. They compared Anderson DNA with that of a blood relative of the Polish girl, and they DID match.

Some close of the Anastasia's close childhood friends that met Anderson claimed she was indeed the Grand Duchess because she knew certain secrets and had a certain regal bearing. However, her closest relatives (e.g. her aunt Grand Duchess Olga) who met Anderson said she was a fraud.

Yes, they thought that she was a Polish factory worker (I can't spell the name) who was injured in a grenade explosion on the job. She disappeared, and no one heard from her. A little while after that, "Anna Anderson" showed up.

When they found the bodies, they did a DNA test for the women using blood given from Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who was a great-nephew of Alexandra. It matched. They also did a test on Anderson, and it didn't match. It was also very similar to the Polish factory worker's.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Yes, they thought that she was a Polish factory worker (I can't spell the name) who was injured in a grenade explosion on the job. She disappeared, and no one heard from her. A little while after that, "Anna Anderson" showed up.

When they found the bodies, they did a DNA test for the women using blood given from Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who was a great-nephew of Alexandra. It matched. They also did a test on Anderson, and it didn't match. It was also very similar to the Polish factory worker's.

Problem is that Anderson's DNA was not taken while she was alive. As she was cremated after her death, no DNA was available, till someone "remembered" that he had kept a lock of her hair... That was a rather fishy story and there is no real proof that it really was Anderson's DNA.

As for polish factory workers in Berlin - my grandmother was born in 1889 into a very good family who fell on hard times, so she had to work for her living. Still she was brought up a lady and she told me when we once discussed the Anderson claim that no polish factory workeress could ever have managed to make aristocrats believe in a Royal background for her. Manners or the correct way to speak had to have been installed from the earliest childhood in these very formal and strict times, otherwise everybody realised that there was a working class background. It was a completely different kind of society to today. No way to learn these things apart form being raised in the right circles...

My grandmother thus believed in those who recognised Anna Anderson.

 

[Warren]

Problem is that Anderson's DNA was not taken while she was alive. As she was cremated after her death, no DNA was available, till someone "remembered" that he had kept a lock of her hair... That was a rather fishy story and there is no real proof that it really was Anderson's DNA.

It's a bit more scientific and reliable than a lock of hair. According to Marlene Eilers in "Queen Victoria's Descendants" (p56): "[in 1994] a sample of her intestinal tissue (which had been kept on file at Martha Jefferson Hospital in Charlottesville, a normal procedure following surgery) was sent to Aldermaston in England where Dr Peter Gill performed the DNA tests. Concurrently, DNA testing was also being performed on several strands of hair belonging to Anna Anderson at Penn State in the United States. The DNA testing would prove that the hair samples and the tissue were from the same person, and [Anna Anderson's DNA] did not match the Hesse-Romanov code."

 

[Jo of Palatine]

It's a bit more scientific and reliable than a lock of hair. According to Marlene Eilers in "Queen Victoria's Descendants" (p56): "[in 1994] a sample of her intestinal tissue (which had been kept on file at Martha Jefferson Hospital in Charlottesville, a normal procedure following surgery) was sent to Aldermaston in England where Dr Peter Gill performed the DNA tests. Concurrently, DNA testing was also being performed on several strands of hair belonging to Anna Anderson at Penn State in the United States. The DNA testing would prove that the hair samples and the tissue were from the same person, and [Anna Anderson's DNA] did not match the Hesse-Romanov code."

A quote from: Could Anna Anderson be Anastasia?

DNA testing in 1994 showed that the mtDNA of Empress Alexandra and her daughters to be a perfect match with the Duke of Edinburgh. DNA testing in 1994 on the remains of the most famous Romanov survivor claimant, Anna Anderson Manahan, showed that her mtDNA did not match that of the Duke of Edinburgh, meaning that she could not be Anastasia as she claimed until her death in 1984. Instead, it matched with an alleged grandnephew of Franziska Schanzkowska the woman who Anna Anderson's opponents had long hoped to identify her with, Carl Maucher, supporting the hypothesis that Franziska Schanzkowska and Anna Anderson were one and the same. However, not only recent analysis by DNA experts, but further DNA tests and circumstantial evidence make the 1994 verdicts not so official after all. What we do know is that the chain of custody for the samples tested would not have stood up in any court. The only thing which suggest the intestinal tissue was from Anderson is that the number on the box correlates to the her history number. However, we don't know how the procedure was carried out in 1979. We don't have hard proof this was her tissue. Second of all, we don't have a chain of custody for the hair samples at all. All we have is some woman who claimed to have found them in John Manahan's old bookstore inside of a book with a letter that read, 'Anastasia's hair'. Inside this letter the hair was allegedly found. No STRs were derived from this hair, so we don't have any PROOF that these hairs were from the same person as the intestine or Anna Anderson. As for the blood slide which was located in Germany, it didn't have the same sequence at all (although it is a common misconception). So what we have are three samples, allegedy belonging to Anna Anderson, not one of them with the absolute proof.

and another, even more interesting:

Historian Greg King has done some great research on the Romanovs and written an excellent biography of Empress Alexandra. But what he has to say on Anna Anderson/ Anastasia may come as a shock to those who refuse to believe that anyone could have survived the bloodbath of 1918, despite the evidence of two missing bodies.
"One needn't believe in conspiracies or ascribe incompetence to those who conducted the testing to have doubts about their continued validity. Two distinct methods of DNA testing were used to show support for the hypotheses that Anastasia Manahan or Anna Anderson 1) Could not have been a child of Nicholas and Alexandra; 2) Did not match the mtDNA Hessian profile derived by Gill and used to match four of the female Ekaterinburg remains to the profile derived from HRH The Duke of Edinburgh; and 3) Matched the mtDNA profile of Karl Maucher, lending support to the hypothesis that she was Schanzkowska.
Both nuclear and mitochondrial (mtDNA) testing was done. Nuclear testing is preferred as it renders better results and is considered more accurate, while mtDNA is less discriminating. Nuclear DNA tests showed that AA could not possibly have been a daughter of N and A, yet changes in the science make the 1994 verdict obsolete. Gill used a 6-point Short Tandem Repeat (STR) analysis of the nuclear DNA to arrive at these results. Within four years of these tests, 10 point STR testing was being done, and when results of 10 point STR testing were compared with 6 point STR tests, the 6 point analysis was shown conclusively to give both false positive and negative results-in other words, conclusions based on 6 point STR tests were proved faulty. In 1999, the testing had gone from the 6 point STR tests of 1993-94 and the 10 point STR tests of 1998 to 12 point STR tests, the accuracy of which further undermined 6 point STR test results. Gill admitted this in a statement released in 2000, adding that FSS had changed from the old 6 point STR method to the 10 point STR method in 1999. In 2000, the STR tests were up to a 14 point system; in 2001, it was 16 points, and by 2002, the industry standard worldwide in STR testing was 20 point STR tests. Scientific studies have repeatedly shown that 6 point STR tests are unreliable and result in false matches and exclusions. The 6 point STR nuclear DNA tests that showed Anastasia Manahan could not have been a daughter of N and A, therefore, are now meaningless.
The mtDNA match to the Maucher profile is also now known to be less reliable than everyone believed. In 1994, mtDNA matches were believed to prove identity, and to be unique to related individuals. Last year, an extensive UK study showed that out of a random 100 persons, four completely unrelated subjects shared exactly the same mtDNA profiles; extrapolate that here, on a board with 400 members: of the 400 of us posting here, 40 of us-unrelated to each other-would have identical mtDNA profiles, thus "proving" that we're related. The odds of a random mtDNA match between the Manahan sample and the Maucher profile are indeed considerable given the size of the world population and the numbers involved. I suspect, based on the continuing evolution of the science, that future studies will show mtDNA profiles to be even more common than this.
My reservations about regarding the 1994 DNA tests as absolutely conclusive in the matter of Anastasia Manahan, therefore, rest on the advances of science. Two of the three planks in the DNA case against her have now been shown to be either unreliable or less than compelling in a mere ten years. Her exclusion from the Hessian mtDNA profile remains, and while the methods used to obtain the exclusion remain in practice, given the above changes I hesitate to presume that they, too, won't be challenged as the science evolves; already in the last 2 years there have been two substantial challenges to the DNA testing done on the Ekaterinburg remains, and I suppose there will be more in the future that may or may not be valid. This makes it theoretically possible -- given the facts above about the first two DNA planks in the case -- that ultimately in another generation none of the DNA identifications/exclusions in the Anderson case will matter-and the case will fall back to where it always rested before the DNA -- to examination of physical traits, memories, recognitions, etc.
It seems to me, whether one wishes to believe in Anna Anderson or not (and I don't wish either way, incidentally), it is best to keep an open mind and at least examine the facts as known now in the DNA case against Anastasia Manahan -- as three separate issues -- rather than repeatedly refer to ten year old tests that, taken as a whole, have lost two-thirds of their validity."


As Anna/Anastasia did not leave children it really doesn't matter nowadays but still there is something fishy in the whole story - too many strange occurances and some people involved with real good motives. Which is something I don't feel when it comes to Diana's death.

 

[Lady Night Stalker]

As Anna/Anastasia did not leave children it really doesn't matter nowadays but still there is something fishy in the whole story - too many strange occurances and some people involved with real good motives. Which is something I don't feel when it comes to Diana's death.

When Anna Anderson was examined it was reported that she had born atleast one child. According to Anderson the child was the son of one of the men who saved her and that she gave it up for adoption. Its probably impossible to find this child now that Anderson is dead not to mention this guy probably has no idea about his past. That is assuming her child is still alive. Europe went through some pretty tulmutous years. WWII, the holocaust, Cold War.....he's probably dead.

 

[BorisRom]

Aa=anr

AA=ANR: CINDERELLA’S GLASS SLIPPERS OF GD ANASTASIA

Very rare congenital deformation of feet "hallux valgus" of AA and ANR puts a fat point in fierce disputes of supporters and opponents of Anna Anderson. In a fairy tale the princess was found out on glass slipper but if in a fairy tale the Prince has found out the Cinderella, in the life of Anna-Anastasia all has taken place on the contrary, and till now, in almost 88 years from appearance-occurrence of Anna-Anastasia in Berlin, even the significant part of members of the House of Romanovs does not recognize, that "Anna Anderson" was the rescued GD ANR (the rescued on July, 17, 1918 ). Fierce disputes on Anna Anderson's riddle proceed till now …
It is surprisingly that all knew about a rarity of this orthopedic disease, but until recently it occurred to nobody to address to experts-orthopedists and to learn exact medical statistics. Only in this 2007 year an unknown engineer from Ekaterinburg has made it (Vladimir Momot, his article was published in L-A newspaper “Panorama” in February, 2007). So:
«The first work about hallux valgus has been published by doctor Laforest in 1778. The largest works in XX century are D.E.Shklovsky's monography (1937), E.I.Zajtsev's(1959) and G.N.Kramarenko's (1970) dissertations. Working in the Central scientific research institute of traumatology and orthopedy of Ministry of Health of the USSR, Galina Nikolaevna Kramarenko has processed the statistical material collected as a result of mass inspections of women on diseases of static deformation of feet. In result she has obtained the following data. Hallux valgus. as a rule, appears at women of 30-35 years old. G.Kramarenko has found out, that the "isolated" hallux valgus 0,95 % suffer from number of the surveyed women. And the first degree of illness has been fixed at 89 %, and the third degree (case AA and ANR) only at 1,6 % from among the women having the given disease. Thus, one of 6500 women (in the age more senior than 30 years) suffers from this illness.
As to cases of congenital disease (case of AA and ANR), these cases are individual and meet extremely seldom. In head establishment of Russia on this problem the Research institute of children's orthopedic of a name of G.I.Turner for last ten years it is registered only eight cases of this disease. - And it is on hundred fifty millions [more exactly, on 142 million - B.R.] inhabitants of Russia».
Thus, the statistics of a congenital case «hallux valgus» makes 8:142 000000, or, approximately, 1:17 750000! Thus, Anna Anderson really was GD Anastasia with such probability (99,9999947)! By the way, this Research institute of children's orthopedic of a name of G.I.Turner is in Tsarskoe Selo (nowadays. Pushkin) where on June 5 (18), 1901 in 6 A.M. Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova was born. It is very probable, that children's doctor Henry Ivanovich Turner (1858 - 1941) examined imperial children in the beginning of XX century in the Aleksandrovsky palace and diagnosed «hallux valgus» to small Anastasia…
The above mentioned statistics practically put down the negative results of the DNA-tests which have been carried out with the remains of some of her body-materials in 1994-1997 - because those years reliability of DNA-researches did not exceed 1:6000 - in three thousand times less authentically, than statistics of "glass slippers" of Anna-Anastasia!
And nota bene, the statistics of congenital «hallux valgus» is actually the statistics of facts\artefacts (there are not doubts here) while DNA-researches are a complex (and difficult) procedure at which the opportunity of casual genetic pollution of initial materials is impossible to exclude, and even their ill-intentioned substitution.

***

I am extremely grateful to Peter Kurth who has given to me the initial information.
For those who reads in Russian (the full text of this article):
http://www.petroprognoz.spb.ru/analitika/20okt07-AA-ANR.html
Boris

 

[morhange]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Peter Kurth a longtime supporter of Anna Anderson? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but I could have sworn it was him...

 

[Royal Fan]

Yes Peter Kurth Defened her Claims.

 

[BorisRom]

So, statistics data:
-- the “isolated” hallux valgus has 0,95 % from number of the surveyed women;
-- the first degree of the HV has 89 % from them (= 0,85% from the surveyed women );
-- the third degree of the HV has 1,6 % from them (= 0,0152% from the surveyed women or 1: 6580 );
-- the statistics of a congenital case «hallux valgus» makes 8:142 000000, or, approximately, 1:17 750 000! It is the case of AA and ANR.
And we must add that AA had one of the foot (it seems it was her right one’s) more deformed than the other. This was noticed by the nurse-maid (of little Anastasia) Shura Tegleva-Gilliard herself, who remarked that Anastasia had the same particularity as AA.
***
The setting of identity of Anna Anderson (AA) and Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova (ANR) is of great importance for historians and for hundreds (or thousands) people which till now are involved in fierce disputes on it by mind and heart.
Except of it (and, possible, it is the MAIN thing in political sense]), if AA=ANR who was buried in 1998 in Saint Petersburg under a name Anastasia? And whose remains have been found in summer of 2007 in Koptiakov forest?
At last, it is known, that Anna Anderson had the son (he was born in the autumn of 1919 on border with Romania). What is a fate of the son of GD Anastasia?

 

[Russophile]

Indeed Peter Kurth defended her claims. He knew her.
Quite well.
Lucien, you won't find any conclusive proof. They are now getting more people involved in this mess. Carnival again!

 

[BorisRom]

more brisk discussion

If any participant of this forum wants to read more brisk discussion about «Cinderella's glass slippers of GD Anastasia», you can read it (for example):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2233809?thread=4701491&skip=0&show=20
http://www.kingandwilson.com/forum/list.php?85
http://p092.ezboard.com/fworldofroyaltymessageboardfrm2.showMessageRange?topicID=1728.topic&start=1&stop=25
Sincerely, I don't want to offend anybody here, but I like more brisk discussions. Certainly, with pleasure I'm ready to continue discussion here too. I like your forum with its slow advantages and absence of fussiness.
Boris

 

[BorisRom]

Anna Anderson and GD Anastasia: Cinderella’s glass slippers.

Anna Anderson and GD Anastasia: Cinderella’s glass slippers.
Due to these discussions and due to conversation on this theme with Peter Kurth (I thank you so much, Peter!), I have decided to formulate this theme more precisely now:

1. GD Anastasia had CONGENTAL “Hallux Valgus” (bunions).
The identity of the congenital deformity of GD Anastasia's feet, which was very pronounced, is not only visible in photographs of the young grand duchess, but was confirmed even by those close to ANR who did NOT believe in AA's identity (for instance, the tsar's
younger sister GD Olga Alexandrovna – and she well knew the imperial children since their birth). It *was* congenital, and it was not caused by anything else. The nurse-maid (of little Anastasia) Shura Tegleva confirmed Anastasia’s congenital bunions too.

2. Anna Anderson had CONGENTAL hallux valgus (bunions) too.
Except of this diagnosis of German doctors (in Dalldorf, 1920), the diagnosis "the congenital “Hallux Valgus" was put also by the Russian doctor Sergey Mihajlovich Rudnev in St.Maria's clinic in the summer of 1925 (AA was very hardly sick of a tubercular infection):
«On her right foot I have noticed strong deformation, OBVIOUSLY, CONGENITAL: the big finger bend to the right, forming a tumour». Hallux Valgus was on her both feet. (Peter Kurth's book [Anastasia. The riddle of Anna Anderson], in Russian, p.99). Doctor Rudnev has cured and has rescued her life in 1925. AA named him «my kind Russian professor who has rescued my life».

3. On July, 27, 1925 to Berlin the spouses Gillard have arrived. Once again: Shura Gillard-Tegleva was the nurse-maid of GD Anastasia in Russia. They have visited very much sick AA in clinic. Shura has asked to show the feet of the patient. The blanket has been cast cautiously away, Shura has exclaimed:
«With [Anastasia] it was the same as here: the right foot was worse than the left» (Peter Kurth."Anastasia. The riddle of Anna Anderson", in Russian, p.121)
***
Now, the statistics data of “Hallux Valgus” (bunions):
-- the "hallux valgus" (HV) has 0,95 % from number of the surveyed women;
-- the first degree of the HV has 89 % from them (= 0,85% from the surveyed women );
-- the third degree of the HV has 1,6 % from them (= 0,0152% from the surveyed women or 1: 6580 );
-- the statistics of a congenital case «hallux valgus» makes (in modern Russia) 8:142 000000, or, approximately, 1:17 750 000!
We can assume the statistics data of a congenital case «hallux valgus» in former Russia did not differ too strongly (let even in some times, 1: 10 000 000). Thus the case of “AA was not ANR” has the probability from 1:10 millions to 1:17 millions.
In addition:
The citation from article about congenital “hallux valgus” of AA (“Gone with the wind”, L-A newspaper "Panorama", February, 2007):
“As one of the orthopedists (advising me) has expressed: «It is easier to find two girls of one age with identical FINGER PRINTS, than with attributes CONGENITAL hallux valgus”
***
Thus, I think (I hope), very rare congenital deformation of feet "hallux valgus" of AA and ANR puts a fat point in fierce disputes of supporters and opponents of Anna Anderson.

Regards
Boris

P.S. Of course, I can suppose many opponents (opponents of Anna Anderson) will agree to differ (will keep their former opinion), but henceforth they should demonstratively deny down the stated above.
P.P.S. ... and they should deny Peter Kurth's book on former - the main thing!