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  #401  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:23 AM
Lady Daly's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
I googled it: 3 UbG states - If a crazy person is a danger to himself or others, this person can get incarcerated against the person's will into a psychiatric ward.
https://vertretungsnetz.at/fileadmin...e_2013_web.pdf

Now, one can imagine, that it takes a lot of hurdles, to bring someone into a mental facility, but if done so, it is surely not easy to get out!
So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements ( 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
The person is mentally ill,
there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.

In the US there are several ways to go about this. An initial involuntary hold is served by law enforcement, the person is brought into a psychiatric lockdown unit where they are evaluated by psychiatry within a 72hr involuntary hold time period. The person is either discharged thereafter or if they meet the above criteria then a legal hold for a much longer period of time eg 14 days, 30 days etc. requiring further civil court orders unless they have committed a crime. That would be a game changer. I really don't know much about Prince Ernst August other than the forums. If he were hospitalized he could also be medically evaluated for things like end stage liver disease, organic brain disorders, and receive proper treatment. Amazing what good medical care can accomplish. It seems to me the family could appeal through the courts via a physician statement and attorney to put the wheels in motion.
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  #402  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Daly View Post
So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements ( 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
The person is mentally ill,
there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.

Yep, these are the requirements! In Germany we have some "jokes" about "The Gods in black and white" - Judges and medical Doctors. But for poor Ernst August this might be no joke anymore soon enough. And to get treated and incarcerated against one's will is surely a terrifying shock!

I was asked above not to say Ernst August is "crazy" but rather to choose the wording "mental health issues". Well, Ernst August is for sure crazy, but that does not mean that he is necessarily rippled by mental health issues - maybe he is just lonely, excentric and his body is sick, but not his mind... Let's hope for the best!
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  #403  
Old 08-07-2020, 02:56 AM
eya eya is offline
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Princess Eugenia ,daughter of Prince Heinrich and niece of Ernst August make her first steps in the world of fashion


https://www.hola.com/realeza/2020080...incesa-modelo/
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  #404  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
Princess Eugenia ,daughter of Prince Heinrich and niece of Ernst August make her first steps in the world of fashion


https://www.hola.com/realeza/2020080...incesa-modelo/
She is very pretty.
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  #405  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:47 AM
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She has stunning eyes.
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  #406  
Old 08-08-2020, 01:13 AM
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Well, her mother was very pretty in her youth too...and still is.
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  #407  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
She has stunning eyes.
Definitely her fathers eyes (at least on the 1st, top pic). Her mouth reminds me also a lot of Heinrichs!
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  #408  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:23 AM
eya eya is offline
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"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grnau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html
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  #409  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grnau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

It's clear the Prince is suffering from severe mental health issues. I hope his family are able to get the medical help he needs.
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  #410  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grnau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

AGAIN??? Oh dear...
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  #411  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:21 AM
Lady Daly's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Lady Daly View Post
So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements ( 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
The person is mentally ill,
there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.

In the US there are several ways to go about this. An initial involuntary hold is served by law enforcement, the person is brought into a psychiatric lockdown unit where they are evaluated by psychiatry within a 72hr involuntary hold time period. The person is either discharged thereafter or if they meet the above criteria then a legal hold for a much longer period of time eg 14 days, 30 days etc. requiring further civil court orders unless they have committed a crime. That would be a game changer. I really don't know much about Prince Ernst August other than the forums. If he were hospitalized he could also be medically evaluated for things like end stage liver disease, organic brain disorders, and receive proper treatment. Amazing what good medical care can accomplish. It seems to me the family could appeal through the courts via a physician statement and attorney to put the wheels in motion.
Once again, we can try to avert our eyes away from the obvious yet until Prince Ernest August receives proper medical attention which includes both psychiatric and medical treatment these events will continue until there is no chance of it ending well.
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  #412  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:29 AM
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I doubt if he's going to improve much. He has easy access to mental and physical health care but my impression is that he doesn't want to avail of it, and isn't likely to take any better care of himself.
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  #413  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I doubt if he's going to improve much. He has easy access to mental and physical health care but my impression is that he doesn't want to avail of it, and isn't likely to take any better care of himself.

I feel so sorry for him and his family... He seems to be profoundly depressed, as if he had no reasons to live anymore and, yet, he has so many...
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  #414  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lazuli View Post
I feel so sorry for him and his family... He seems to be profoundly depressed, as if he had no reasons to live anymore and, yet, he has so many...
I'd save my sympathy for people who have a lot wrose problems than him. He seems to be a selfish individual who has acted in a bizarre way for years, abused drink and drugs.. and generally made a nuisance of himself.
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  #415  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:43 AM
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Even if the legal criteria are actually there it can be very hard to get someone sectioned, even if you are beginning the police and health professionals for help. And even then it's hard to hold them for long. Especially if they have money.

His family has enough money for the best private rehabs/mental health clinics in the world to send specialist teams to try and persuade him he needs help and maybe they have. Maybe he has even attended some of them. But unless you're willing to admit you need have a problem and need help and work on yourself and your recovery with the support of professionals and and/or a support group nothing is going to work however many people try to be there for him or how many incidents he has.
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  #416  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:32 AM
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It is difficult to understand that a person can be so ill they are unable to process reality or think like a normal person. This can be psychiatric or physical or in the princes case most likely a combination. If someone has cancer you don't wait until they are terminal to start treatment. Same with the Prince yet he is not cognitively capable of determining he needs care. It also appears he is a danger to others: "The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion... The 66-year-old is said to have asked the (caretaking) couple to run away. Otherwise he would send a gang of thugs on their necks. In addition, the prince is said to have torn out a traffic sign and smashed a window on an object belonging to the Duke of Cumberland Foundation."
https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

I know it is very different from country to country as to the process of committing a person who is a danger to himself or a danger to others. At some point law enforcement and the courts take precedent but as pointed out he has money and status which I agree makes it more difficult to commit him for care no matter the jurisdiction.
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  #417  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grnau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?
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  #418  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...er=NOR40050629

Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration.

That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail?
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  #419  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...er=NOR40050629

Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration.

That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail?
what if they do? I doubt it will do any good but its probably something they should do. however I don't think he is going to change.
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  #420  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?
Good point Moonmaiden, meaning probationary to be changed at a later date. Possibly a court date or charges dropped?? Yes, very sad. The man is in serious need of medical care.
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