Children of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette

[Dierna23]

The story of the dark countess is very fascinating. It is said that the Madame Royale was pregnant when she escaped because she was raped before - is there any information if she gave birth to her child? And if so, what happened to the child?

[Warren]

Posts requesting information on family histories have been moved to the Help with family histories and mysteries thread in Members' Corner.

[Grace Angel]

Originally Posted by Dierna23

The story of the dark countess is very fascinating. It is said that the Madame Royale was pregnant when she escaped because she was raped before - is there any information if she gave birth to her child? And if so, what happened to the child?

Madame Royale was never pregnant. She was basically officially released not escaped, and she went to Austria after that before later marrying her French royal cousin.

[The Walrus Club]

Has anyone ever proven or disproven the truth behind Madame Royale?
My G grandmother (Antoinette Brodak/Mc Dermott), born Feb.18,1874, used to tell us a story about how Madame Royale actually escaped the prison by having someone impersonate her.This would mean that the marriage between the impersonator and her cousin wouldn't have been legal or true because she wasn't actually Madame Royale.
If the decendants of the real Madame Royale were alive today wouldn't that cancell the claim to the French Crown by both the Orleans and Spanish pretenders?
My family is doing a genealogy study to trace the "direct maternal" line backwards from my G grandmother,to her mother,to her mother,to her mother, which would take us to France during the revolution.
We have traced it back to Breslau,Germany(now Wroclaw,Poland) from her to her mother Ottilie Schindler,who married John Brodak in 1850 and am now getting to her mother Matilde Gusman who married August Schindler, date unknown so far.
We have also traced the maternal lineage forward from Antoinette Brodak/Mc Dermott to her G granddaughter who is alive today.She is willing to take a DNA test to prove the "direct maternal lineage".We already have the test results on Marie Antoinettes hair to match to.
Can anyone tell me how we should go about proving our claim after we have all the info. we are seeking? Is there anybody in Europe who could help us out?

Thanks

[EmpressRouge]

Originally Posted by The Walrus Club

If the decendants of the real Madame Royale were alive today wouldn't that cancell the claim to the French Crown by both the Orleans and Spanish pretenders?

No it would not. The French throne is inherited by Salic Law, i.e. strictly through the male line. "Direct maternal line" means nothing. Regardless of whether the real Madame Royale escaped, her children are barred from inheritance unless a daughter (or female descendant) married a legitimate Bourbon in the male line, then their children have a shot through the male line.

[The Walrus Club]

Hello

I've heard several stories madame royale escaping from the prison by having someone impersonate her.I've read the account of the "Dark Countess", but are there others that I can read about?
I'm trying to trace a story once told to me by my G grandmother.She said madame royale did escape,then went back to her Austrian relatives.She also said we are decendants of her.
I realize that the crown can't be claimed by decendants from the female line, but we are trying to verify the story she told us as part of our family genealogy project.
Can someone give me some more stories to investigate? Any info. you might have would be greatly appreciated.
You may contact me = thewalrusclub@gmail.com

Thanks

[Marengo]

I have never read that Madame Royale escaped from her emprisonment. However, she was released in 1795 and indeed went to her relatives in Vienna.

She married her cousin, Louis Antoine, son of Charles X. The couple had no children.

[Thribette]

If the grave of this "Dark countess" is known, it would be easy to take mitochondrial DNA and show she was not a Marie-Antoinette relative; also one could take Madame Royale's mitochondrial for the same experiment, still using as a reference the mitochondrial DNA collected to establish the authenticity of her brother Louis XVII's heart.

[Lady of the Manor]

Originally Posted by queenanne

Not all of her children died during the French Revolution. The eldest boy fell ill and died before any of the revolution broke out and their other son died in prison from tuberculosis of the bones. Their only daughter to survive infancy also survived the revoution. She married her cousin and became the Duchess of Angouleme. Much to her sorrow, she and her husband were not able to have children, so the direct line ended there.

I did wonder about this. I had heard she didn't have any but some people think there may have been an illegitimate child...?

[Sonam]

Originally Posted by Lady of the Manor

I did wonder about this. I had heard she didn't have any but some people think there may have been an illegitimate child...?

I have heard from many sources that this couldn't have been possible. But I guess you can never know something 100%.

[PrincessKaimi]

Just downloaded the book on Marie Antoinette's daughter for Kindle..

...now I'm confused. Is she the Dark Countess? Who is the Dark Countess?

[monica17]

Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi

Just downloaded the book on Marie Antoinette's daughter for Kindle..

...now I'm confused. Is she the Dark Countess? Who is the Dark Countess?

The Dark Countess is supposed to be the real Marie-Therese-Charlotte (MTC), Madame Royale, who lived in seclusion afterwards and a "fake" MTC was put in her place and released to her relatives.

I'm just wondering if it were the fake MTC who was released, shouldn't people who knew her before have at least suspected that she wasn't the real one? Also, MTC should be able to recall those details (about events, people, royal life, among others) about her life (and those around her), how can a fake MTC have access to such. Unless it was a 'genius" substitute, who had someone to coach her about all that......

[Carminha Stalker]

What a tragic story that of the children of Louis XVI and Marie AntoinetteThe suffering they both went through and the awful death of the young boy.It´s not difficult to think how this girl, Madame Royale felt throughout her life about what had happened to her parents and brother.
After the bloodbath of the aristocrats, the French people who thought were "liberating" themselves, could witness the bloodbath during the reign of terror, when their so-called "liberators" were themselves guillotined!
And it took a man who didn´t want to be President or Prime Minister but Emperor, to start shaping things out.

[Grandduchess24]

Those children seemed like to have a happy life until the revolution ruined everything
-Sophie died as a baby
- Louis Joseph died of a condition he developed and died young
- Louis Charles , the proclaimed Louis XVII was taken prisoner with his family and psychologically changed and bad hygiene killed him
- Marie Therese lived until old age but went through some things upon being released from prison and taking on Nepoleon and her cousin Phillppe who took the throne from her and her husband Louis XIX

[Odette]

There were comments on a book (Marie Therese, the fate of Marie Antoinette's daughter) that Madame Royale was given poison by her captors while in prison to render her sterile. She was 17 years old when she was released and her Austrian relatives accepted her as the daughter of Marie Antoinette. Count Fersen who was a family intimate met her after her release in Vienna and he should have been able to determine if she was an impostor.
The "Dark Countess" is a mystery adding a bit more interest to all this but it was never proven one way or the other that she was the true Marie Therese. The family who actually knew her true identity were sworn to never reveal who the Dark Countess really was.

[Nice Nofret]

No, the mystery of the dark countess is solved .. she was totaly someone else but I have forgotten who she was .. too unimportend

[Sancia]

I haven't found any clue on Internet about the mystery being solved. Do you remember where you read it?

[IloveCP]

Was Madame Royale Infertile?

[Sancia]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

Was Madame Royale Infertile?

One can't say who was infertile in the couple. The only thing sure is the couple remained childless.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Sancia

I haven't found any clue on Internet about the mystery being solved. Do you remember where you read it?

I read that as ther Dark Countess obviously had no relatives, her remains "belong" to the community where she is buried and that the community council decided not to allow the opening of her grave for the taking of DNA-samples. Thus there is no way to establish who she might have been.