Death and Funeral of Grand Duke Jean: April 23 & May 4, 2019


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Thanks for the first hand account. Was it all well-organized as it looked like in media.
To be fair I was a bit surprised by the chapelle ardente which looked like a garderobe for visitors (due to the long LED armature through the room). What kind of room was the Chapelle? It did not look one of the salons?


Yes everything was very well organizued.

The Caheplle ardente was when one ggoes into the Paleis through the Blue door on the right side I think the official rooms are on the opposisde Side. (because terhe the herediary Grand Duke went in). The room was quiet big and was nice decorated with some flowers but there of course also barrieres there.
 
That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.

Yes it's really a rest from a time gone. The last time it happened here in Sweden was for the funeral of Prince Bertil in 1997. And not all women covered their face btw... And it wasn't done at all for the funeral of his wife Princess Lilian in 2013.

Even the UK has modernised that. No one wore a veil for the funeral of The Queen Mother in 2002.

Tears or a sad look are just natural for both men and women at funerals.
 
Very beautifully done, and a fitting tribute [and turnout] for so admirable man, as the late Grand Duke..
 
That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.

I thought the Grand-Duchess wore a little hat but I see I swapped her for another one. Yes strange indeed, like Màxima, Maria Teresa comes from a country where ladies use to cover the head when attending Mass. Mathilde has the same habit.

What has MeToo to do with covering once face because you suffered a loss and want to be, virtually, to be with "yourself"? Why would a mourning veil to be sexist...?! I think you got things mixed up here a bit, aren´t you?
Why then continue wearing veils at a wedding although everybody knows hardly any bride these days is a virgin...
Duc, veils were worn by WOMEN, that´s because we have a tradition for women to wear such an item; MEN never wore ones in human history so there is no tradition for male to do so. That is not sexist, that´s just a fact...


This is about royal protocol and etiquette. Royal ladies wore veils up to the 1990s (yes, also at Queen Ingrids funeral - at least by her daughters), a state funeral without attending ladies being veiled would have been considered pretty unthinkable - and this was until the end of the 20th century, not the 19th...

Wearing no hats has nothing to do with what country you come from as catholic, late Queen Fabiola obviously hated hats and didn´t wear one, even when attending mass, when it was not absolutely necessary. The spanish Queens hardly ever wear a hat, in or outside a church while Queen Maxima seems to wear hats all day long - obviously she, like her current belgian counterpart, seem to feel it is absolutely vital for a Queen to wear a hat even in 2019.
This does not answer, why the GDess didn´t even wear a hat for a full state funeral of her late father-in-law, former head of state, when she otherwise has no problems to do so (state visits etc.)...?!
 
Last edited:
:previous:

My take is that the Grand-Duchess saw herself as the hostess. The cortège left the palais grand-ducal and that is her residence. I have no other logic reason. The Grand-Duchess uses to wear hats like Mathilde or Máxima. I thought she wore a little pillbox, but that was her sister-in-law Marie-Astrid, sitting next to her.

It did not disturb me, the Grand-Duchess looked very nicely coiffed. We can not say that about hatless Máxima.
 
The late Catholic Queen Fabiola didn't wear hats to Mass, true...but up until the reforms of Vatican II she always without fail had her head covered with a beautiful mantilla at Mass and any other religious ceremony.

I've no idea what happened with Maria Teresa. She looked drawn, tired and sad. Perhaps she was so distracted she simply forgot her head covering.:sad:
 
Thank you Duc...come to think of it I believe she also wore a hat to the funeral of her father-in-law Leopold III in 1983....
 
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?
 
The palace is her house not the Cathedral.

I guess in all the hullabaloo and the stress the Grand-Duchess simply forgot to put a hat on, when she armed her husband and left the palais to join the funeral procession. We are all human.
 
The late Catholic Queen Fabiola didn't wear hats to Mass, true...but up until the reforms of Vatican II she always without fail had her head covered with a beautiful mantilla at Mass and any other religious ceremony.

I've no idea what happened with Maria Teresa. She looked drawn, tired and sad. Perhaps she was so distracted she simply forgot her head covering.:sad:

A friend told me that just last week her parish bulletin carried an item stating that it is still Church law that a man must have his head uncovered and woman must have her head covered in church. It said that this rule was never changed at Vatican II and as it is Biblical teaching it never can be changed.
 
I guess in all the hullabaloo and the stress the Grand-Duchess simply forgot to put a hat on, when she armed her husband and left the palais to join the funeral procession. We are all human.

She certainly looked very upset.
 
:previous:

My take is that the Grand-Duchess saw herself as the hostess. The cortège left the palais grand-ducal and that is her residence. I have no other logic reason. The Grand-Duchess uses to wear hats like Mathilde or Máxima. I thought she wore a little pillbox, but that was her sister-in-law Marie-Astrid, sitting next to her.

It did not disturb me, the Grand-Duchess looked very nicely coiffed. We can not say that about hatless Máxima.


For the fuenral of her moither.in.-law she wore a hat and the the cortege also left from the Grand Ducal Paleis.
 
Maybe she was present at her father-in-law's passing.
 
Hmm....eternal haggling over poor Maria Teresa's criminal neglect to wear a head covering to her father-in-law's funeral Rites...but not one response to my inquiry about his late Royal Highness's Orders?

For goodness sake. ..the Grand Duchess is normally the most well-mannered and correct of Royal consorts. Perhaps in the high emotion and stress of the day she simply forgot her hat.

Worst case scenario is that she committed a rare faux -pas. Are her family aggrieved? Are the citizens and press of the Grand Duchy grumbling?

I'll just get off my rear and go to Google for an answer to my question. I probably should have done so anyway.:ermm:
 
Last edited:
No one knows and likely we will never know why MT did not wear a hat. She and the Grand Ducal family are highly religious and attend plenty of church services so she won't have purposefully done something to offend the church. In grief people sometimes do odd/out of character things if this is the worst then so be it.

I have always believed the regalia for the order of the Garter are returned to the current UK Sovereign upon a person's death.

The banner - I'm not sure I would guess either kept by the order in some archive or other place or given to the family.

Update - wikipedia (not always the best) says that for the Order of the Garter
"On the death of a member, the Lesser George and breast star are returned personally to the Sovereign by the former member's nearest male relative, and the other insignia to the Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood, save the riband, mantle and hat." There are also pictures of deceased Knights banners in locations all over so I would think this suggests the banner is given to the family.

So no that order won't have been buried with him, I imagine similar procedures are in place for other forms of regalia especially when you bear in mind these items (the collars especially) can be worth lots and/or be hundreds of years old.
 
Last edited:
In the Netherlands any decorations received as part of membership of an order are a loan and need to be returned to the Chancellary upon the death of the holder. I would assume that is the most common practice.

So, in this case I would assume that only member specific items might be given to the family, anything else would be returned for reuse.
 
Last edited:
Yes it's really a rest from a time gone. The last time it happened here in Sweden was for the funeral of Prince Bertil in 1997. And not all women covered their face btw... And it wasn't done at all for the funeral of his wife Princess Lilian in 2013.

Even the UK has modernised that. No one wore a veil for the funeral of The Queen Mother in 2002.

Tears or a sad look are just natural for both men and women at funerals.
The last time the old mourning costume was used in Sweden was at the funeral of King Gustav V. Already at the funerals of Queen Louise, Princess Sibylla and King Gustav VI Adolf the veils had been shortened to shoulder length and the dresses to knees length. Except the short veil and the white pointed collars used by The Queen and Crown Princess Victoria nothing remained of the old mourning costume at the funeral of Prince Bertil.

I remember the Swedish TV commentator mentioning at the funeral of King Baudoin of the Belgians that Queen Fabiola had made her wish known for the guests to not wear an old style mourning garb and for the ladies to not cover their faces.

Another thing worth mentioning is that a long black dress and a hat with veil was used by ladies from most social classes in many places in Europe. My grandmother told me only today that the last time she saw someone in full mourning as she called it in our quiet large Swedish town was in the early eighties.
 
Last edited:
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

If I understood correctly, I think it was said upthread that the Order of Seraphim plaque/shield is moved to a particular church after its “owner’s” death. I haven’t seen anything about the medal itself, though.

I’d be surprised if he were buried with any medals, though. For one thing, I’d think most royal archivists would lobby hard for them to be kept. For another, they specifically made a point of displaying his military and scouting medals during the service, after the coffin had been closed at the palace. If those weren’t interred with him, I doubt others of importance were.
 
According to the Royal website Kungahuset.se all insignia belonging to one of the Swedish Royal Orders should be returned upon the death of the knight.
The website even includes instructions on how it should be returned.
 
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

The stall plate of Grand Duke Jean's Order of the Seraphim was placed on one the walls in Riddarholmen Church in Stockholm on the occasion of the funeral, as the custom of the order is. The insignia of the orders will most likely be returned to the Grand Masters of the Orders, as they "only" are a life-time loan.
 
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

I am not sure of the banner, the star and lesser George are returned to the queen by the nearest male family member. Other insignia, outside the mantle and hat, are returned to the central chancery.

Though it doesn't seem to always be the nearest male. When Gerald Grovesnor died, it was his widow who returned the insignia to the queen. I'd expect Henri will present it to the queen in short period.
 
Here's another video of the Funeral Procession before it entered the Cathedral.

 
Was that Lady Elizabeth Anson who accompanied the Princess Royal into the funeral service? She seemed rather more frail than I remember.
Any ideas why she would have been there?
 
Back
Top Bottom