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  #161  
Old 04-30-2019, 04:34 PM
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Has it been confirmed that the Gloucesters are attending along with Anne for the UK?

A very impressive turn out which doesn't surprise me given Jean's character.
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  #162  
Old 04-30-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That may be her point of view. The point I was trying to make was that only Denmark, not Greece, recognizes her husband's house as "Royal".

To add to my previous comment, the Belgian crown princess is known as HRH Princess Elisabeth or HRH Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant. https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-fa...ess-of-brabant
Queen Anne-Marie is representing the titular Greek Royal Family. Not the State of Greece. No one recognizes Greece as a monarchy because they are not. They are titular royals since 1974 like the german Royal families.

Anne-Marie's official title according to her danish Diplomatic passport is H.M Queen Anne-Marie of Greece. And all foreign states except Greece recognizes her as such. That doesn't mean any foreign state is recognizing her as the first lady of Greece.

She is born a Princess of Denmark but since her marriage, she is no longer a part of the danish royal family and not considered as an official representant of Denmark. If you look at the official guest list at the website of the Grand Ducal Court, you'll see that i am right. Only Queen Margrethe II represents the State of Denmark.
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  #163  
Old 04-30-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That may be her point of view. The point I was trying to make was that only Denmark, not Greece, recognizes her husband's house as "Royal".
I'd say that point of view is shared by the Luxembourg grand ducal family. She hasn't been invited to represent the country of Denmark but to represent the Greek royal family. Just like other non-reigning royal houses send their representatives.
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  #164  
Old 04-30-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Has it been confirmed that the Gloucesters are attending along with Anne for the UK?

A very impressive turn out which doesn't surprise me given Jean's character.

Yes there are oin a list of confirmed guests which was released by the Grand Ducal Court earlier today.

I see they have downgraded the Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein from a Royal Highness to a Serene Highness.



Messe des funérailles de S.A.R. le Grand-Duc Jean : La liste des Familles royales régnantes confirmée - Cour Grand-Ducale de Luxembourg - Avril 2019
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  #165  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Yes there are oin a list of confirmed guests which was released by the Grand Ducal Court earlier today.

I see they have downgraded the Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein from a Royal Highness to a Serene Highness.



Messe des funérailles de S.A.R. le Grand-Duc Jean : La liste des Familles royales régnantes confirmée - Cour Grand-Ducale de Luxembourg - Avril 2019
Nice to see H.H. Princess Astrid of Norway will be attending too.
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  #166  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:14 PM
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Ah thank you, I didn't realise the Cour had released a list already.
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  #167  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Queen Anne-Marie is representing the titular Greek Royal Family. Not the State of Greece. No one recognizes Greece as a monarchy because they are not. They are titular royals since 1974 like the german Royal families.

Anne-Marie's official title according to her danish Diplomatic passport is H.M Queen Anne-Marie of Greece. And all foreign states except Greece recognizes her as such. That doesn't mean any foreign state is recognizing her as the first lady of Greece.

She is born a Princess of Denmark but since her marriage, she is no longer a part of the danish royal family and not considered as an official representant of Denmark. If you look at the official guest list at the website of the Grand Ducal Court, you'll see that i am right. Only Queen Margrethe II represents the State of Denmark.
Thank you for the clarification. I apologize if I misinterpreted what you meant by "Greece".

A significant distinction between the situations of the former royal families of Germany and Greece is that Germany although a republic recognizes royal titles (although they are deemed to be merely surnames for official purposes), whereas Greece does not. As you and Somebody pointed out, the courts of reigning monarchies tend to recognize royal houses which have been abolished, but it seems unlikely that all foreign states except for Greece consider them as such - there surely are at least some republics which would be more likely to recognize the laws of the State of Greece.

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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Belgium - Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz are HRH rather than HIRH. A recent example from the Belgian monarchy's homepage:

Concours Reine Elisabeth – Violon 2019
30 avril 2019 (Jour entier) - 06 juin 2019 (Jour entier)

[…]

Leurs Altesses Royales la Princesse Astrid et le Prince Lorenz assisteront à une session de la finale le vendredi 24 mai 2019 au Palais des Beaux-Arts de Bruxelles.

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/c...th-violon-2019

(Translation: Their Royal Highnesses Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz will attend a session of the finals of the finals on Friday, May 24 at the Palais des Beaux-Arts in Brussels.)
The official guest list from the grand-ducal court also lists Astrid and Lorenz as "Their Royal Highnesses".
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  #168  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:57 PM
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A poster has listed the Duchess of Brabant as attending however she is not listed on the Cour guest list
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  #169  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:00 PM
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Is she not the Her Royal Highness Princess Elisabeth listed?
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  #170  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
A poster has listed the Duchess of Brabant as attending however she is not listed on the Cour guest list
She is the last name listed under Belgium, probably because she is a minor: Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Elisabeth. ("Duchess of Brabant" is seldom used.)
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  #171  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:58 PM
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They are rather inconsistent in their listing. In some cases they add what they are a king/queen/prince(ss) of and in other cases they don't. For example: for Norway it's just 'the king and queen', while for Belgium and Sweden the country/people are included. In the case of Jordan 'of Jordan' is consistently mentioned while they don't include the 'of X' for most other princesses.

And they decided not to include the non-reigning royal families in the list. That's probably the easiest distinction as it would be harder to decide who to include and who to leave out.
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  #172  
Old 05-01-2019, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


The official guest list from the grand-ducal court also lists Astrid and Lorenz as "Their Royal Highnesses".

But that is thje the style the belgian Court always uses for them whereas Sophie is styled HRH by the Liechtenstein Court.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post

And they decided not to include the non-reigning royal families in the list. That's probably the easiest distinction as it would be harder to decide who to include and who to leave out.
For the wedding in 2012 the listed the Head of former regning Houses and offical representatives from them on the offical list.
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  #173  
Old 05-01-2019, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That may be her point of view. The point I was trying to make was that only Denmark, not Greece, recognizes her husband's house as "Royal".

To add to my previous comment, the Belgian crown princess is known as HRH Princess Elisabeth or HRH Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant. https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-fa...ess-of-brabant
It is not only her point of view that Queen Anne-Marie is the representative of her husband´s dynasty which once ruled in Greece - it is a fact. But she´s not the representative of Greece, though.
That counts for most non-reigning houses represented at this funeral, too (The custodian of the romanian crown is the representative of the Roman. Royal House, not of the Republic of Romania, for instance).
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  #174  
Old 05-01-2019, 04:13 AM
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The post office in Luxembourg City Centre will provide a stamp as a tribute to Grand Duke Jean on 4 May, the day of his burial.

https://today.rtl.lu/news/luxembourg/a/1341108.html
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  #175  
Old 05-01-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
They are rather inconsistent in their listing. In some cases they add what they are a king/queen/prince(ss) of and in other cases they don't. For example: for Norway it's just 'the king and queen', while for Belgium and Sweden the country/people are included. In the case of Jordan 'of Jordan' is consistently mentioned while they don't include the 'of X' for most other princesses.

And they decided not to include the non-reigning royal families in the list. That's probably the easiest distinction as it would be harder to decide who to include and who to leave out.
Odd indeed. It would have been a consistent policy either to utilize territorial designations for all guests, or to follow the usual customs per each country. For example, according to Belgian law, Prince Lorenz and Princess Astrid may use the territorial designation "of Belgium" whereas Princess Léa cannot (though she can correctly be addressed as "Princess Alexandre of Belgium" by courtesy). But the court's guestlist does not comply with either consistent approach.

The listed order of precedence of the represented countries is confusing as well. They have not been arranged in alphabetical order, or according to their closeness to the Luxembourg royal house (Norway surely ought not to be higher than the Netherlands in that case), or according to how long their monarchs have been in office.


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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
It is not only her point of view that Queen Anne-Marie is the representative of her husband´s dynasty which once ruled in Greece - it is a fact. But she´s not the representative of Greece, though.

That counts for most non-reigning houses represented at this funeral, too (The custodian of the romanian crown is the representative of the Roman. Royal House, not of the Republic of Romania, for instance).
We are in agreement. It was your second sentence, on whether she will be representing Greece (the guestlist confirms the fact that she will not), that was the issue to which (I thought) I was responding. The Romanian situation is a bit different as the former reigning family enjoys a recognized status to some degree.
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  #176  
Old 05-01-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The listed order of precedence of the represented countries is confusing as well. They have not been arranged in alphabetical order, or according to their closeness to the Luxembourg royal house (Norway surely ought not to be higher than the Netherlands in that case), or according to how long their monarchs have been in office.
My take on the order: they started with those sending reigning (or regent) monarchs and spouses in alphebetical order, although it's unclear why Monaco ends up last (other than that he is not bringing his spouse). Then the former monarchs are listed (probably the Netherlands above Spain because of closer ties between the Benelux cou tries), and ending with those countries sending (other) princes and princesses.
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  #177  
Old 05-01-2019, 08:56 AM
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My take on the order: they started with those sending reigning (or regent) monarchs and spouses in alphebetical order, although it's unclear why Monaco ends up last (other than that he is not bringing his spouse). Then the former monarchs are listed (probably the Netherlands above Spain because of closer ties between the Benelux cou tries), and ending with those countries sending (other) princes and princesses.
Albert is only a prince, not king.
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  #178  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:05 AM
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Albert is only a prince, not king.
But that are the Liechtensteinseins too. And Alois is not yet the reigning Prince but the Hereditary Prince and Regent.
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  #179  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
But that are the Liechtensteinseins too. And Alois is not yet the reigning Prince but the Hereditary Prince and Regent.
Liechtenstein potentially got moved up due to the family connections between the two (namely one of the representatives from Liechtenstein being Jean's daughter)
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  #180  
Old 05-01-2019, 01:52 PM
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Usually it is heads of state in order of anciennity.
Then former heads of state in order of anciennity.
Then heirs in order of anciennity.
Royals representing a reigning House in order of anciennity
Former reiging families in order of anciennity.

So the normal order should be

HEADS OF STATE
Sa Majesté la Reine de Danemark (1972)
Leurs Majestés le Roi et la Reine de Suède (1973)
Leurs Majestés le Roi et la Reine de Norvège (1991)
Son Altesse Sérénissime le Prince de Monaco (2005)
Leurs Majestés le Roi et la Reine des Belges (2013)

FORMER HEADS OF STATE
Sa Majesté la Reine Anne-Marie de Grèce (1973)
Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Beatrix des Pays-Bas (2013)
Leurs Majestés le Roi Albert II et la Reine Paola des Belges (2013)
Leurs Majestés le Roi Juan Carlos et la Reine Sofía d'Espagne (2014)

HEIRS
Leurs Altesses Sérénissimes le Prince Héritier et la Princesse Héritière de Liechtenstein (1989)
Son Altesse Royale la Duchesse de Brabant (2013)

ROYALS OF REIGNING HOUSES
Son Altesse Royale la Princesse-Royale (1952)
Leurs Altesses Royale le Duc et la Duchesse de Gloucester (1952)
Son Altesse la Princesse Astrid de Norvège (1991)
Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Hassan et la Princesse Sarvath de Jordanie (1999)
Son Altesse Royale le Prince Rashid de Jordanie (1991)
Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Basma'a de Jordanie (1991)
Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Lorenz et la Princesse Astrid de Belgique (2013)
Son Altesse Royale le Prince Laurent de Belgique (2013)
Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Léa de Belgique (2013)

FORMER REIGNING HOUSES
Son Altesse Royale le Prince Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon (1989)
Leurs Altesses Royales le Duc et la Duchesse de Parme (2010)
Sa Majesté Margareta et Son Altesse Royale le Prince Radu de Roumanie (2017)
Son Altesse Royale le Prince Jean d'Orléans (2018)

Etc.
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