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  #1341  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:52 AM
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Surely, no matter how much you may want to start a family, you would also want to wait and spend as much time as you could together to be 100% sure you are going to be compatible otherwise that family you create will only be broken up. I would suspect Meghan as a divorcee would been aware of this as would Harry having had divorced parents.

I understand 100% that people are different, some people will commit much earlier than others. W&K or example made perfect sense being together so long given the huge commitment not only to each other but their lives and futures marriage entailed.

That said there are three extremely good reasons why H&M perhaps would have been better waiting a little longer:

a) to give Meghan time to get use to living in the UK, find her feet, make friends here of her own etc. Similarly Meghan and Harry could have gone and spent time in LA with her friends and family and Canada so both were 100% familiar with and comfortable with each others lives and countries. A long distance relationship is tricky and is different from living in one country and place together all the time. Visiting a country is not the same as living in it.

b) to give Meghan time to get to know how the RF works. This was IMO one of the things that has caused the most problems for them as a couple, Meghan quite honestly doesn't now how the RF operate both as a family and as a "business" and Harry has distain for it so when she put (even quite honestly) a foot wrong Harry leapt to her defence and proclaimed how out-dated and evil the monarchy is. Allowing her more time to see how it works, what is done and not done etc would have allowed her to understanding it better herself, without so much of Harry's influence and allowed her to make better informed decisions about which things she truly 'didn't like' and would want to do differently, or even decide she didn't want to be part of "official life" at all. That would have been much more acceptable if it had been laid out at the start of their marriage than a year into it. TBH more and more over time I have come to feel Harry has done Meghan wrong in a way by not guiding her better into the RF.

c) to let Harry get to know Meghan's family. There was always quite clearly an odd dynamic at play here, so being together longer would have allowed him to get to know her family, its ups and downs and would have probably helped more in the long run.

None of these are reasons not to marry in the end at all, but quite honestly marrying into the RF is a huge deal and to rush into it is just making your own life harder in the long run (as we have seen tbh). I think Meghan could have been a real breath of fresh air for the RF but Harry had already turned her against in to a degree and by not inducting her probably in its ways and practices just set her up to fail.

I see nothing wrong with the advice given by William and Inskip, heck I would and have said the same to family/friends who seemed to be rushing into marriage. If we hadn't (as a family) by sister would have been off and married at 18 to someone she wasn't truly at all in love with. Now, married with kids of her own she thanks us all for being strict with her and making her see it wasn't the right thing. My point is, family and close friends often do know what is best for you, often that is hard to listen to because all we all know - the truth hurts. To me, the fact William and Inskip both apparently urged a slowing down shows that Harry & Meghan must have been rushing things, I wonder if they were doing so even more behind the scenes than in public (which the secret engagement earlier than we were told would tie in with). William and Inskip have both stuck with Harry through thick and thin and loved him for being him, if they both urged him to slow down does that say more about them or about Harry? IMO the answer is Harry.

Again I am 100% not saying they shouldn't have married, I'm saying I think most things would have turned out better if they had slowed down a bit, taken their time, got to know each others unusual circumstances - Harry being part of the RF, Meghan being a celebrity/actress, both having odd family dynamics, both living in other countries). I think likely they would still have got married, probably even be living in LA now as they are but without he hurt and upset along the way.
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  #1342  
Old 08-09-2020, 08:05 AM
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I think that it would have been very good if they had found a way of Meg's coming to the UK for a year before they got engaged... It would have meant her leaving her show, though and perhaps she felt she could not do that, but surely, if she had gone to the UK and then come back, she would have still had an acting career? (if she's a passably good actress)...
The issue of having a family was I think a big one.. she was already 38 almost when she had Archie.. and she got pregnant soon... I don't see any way around that.. I suspect she may have felt she had ot start her family soon but it didn't give her long to get into marriage and UK life before she was also having a child.
I think re the issue of Will and friends suggesting they slow down a bit, that was good advice.. However, trouble is, if people don't wat to hear the advice, it can sour relationships. Even if it turns out to be right, Harry didn't want to hear it and it may have upset his relationship with his brother for a long time...
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  #1343  
Old 08-09-2020, 09:08 AM
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I often think Harry looks rather like a hostage when he appears with Meghan, checking with her for approval/permission for what he says. He seems to be completely in thrall to this woman who appears to be so much more intelligent, opinionated and worldly than him. He comes across as quite ridiculous when he parrots her "woke" sentiments as they don't quite ring as sincere, more like transferred values from his wife. He was much more inspiring and authentic when working on what was clearly his passion - the military and Sentebale charities - the kind of things that Royals do so well.
He has veered into dangerous territory for the son and brother of future kings when paraphrasing his wife's sentiments on politics, climate or BLM. Stepping back from Royal life should also entail stepping back from any public role or public pronouncements because no matter what he will always be a Royal and whatever he says or does will reflect on the throne.
  #1344  
Old 08-09-2020, 09:52 AM
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He is such a second child - feeling that he doesn't measure up and completely unaware of his strong points, at the same time socially adept and in his case, charismatic. He has always been popular because he relates so well to people, but as you say, he looks so so unsure of himself when he is with her. She is a very strong woman and a bit overconfident in my opinion. I've always had a soft spot for him and I just hope he is adjusting well and is happy. Remember, he has said he wished he had an out a long time ago, way before Meghan came on the scene. Well, is escape is very drastic - hardly anything left of his old life. That's why I say that I hope he is adjusting well and is happy.
  #1345  
Old 08-09-2020, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I often think Harry looks rather like a hostage when he appears with Meghan, checking with her for approval/permission for what he says. He seems to be completely in thrall to this woman who appears to be so much more intelligent, opinionated and worldly than him. He comes across as quite ridiculous when he parrots her "woke" sentiments as they don't quite ring as sincere, more like transferred values from his wife. He was much more inspiring and authentic when working on what was clearly his passion - the military and Sentebale charities - the kind of things that Royals do so well.
He has veered into dangerous territory for the son and brother of future kings when paraphrasing his wife's sentiments on politics, climate or BLM. Stepping back from Royal life should also entail stepping back from any public role or public pronouncements because no matter what he will always be a Royal and whatever he says or does will reflect on the throne.
but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age So I suppose Im a bit unfair to him when I see him coming up with this "studenty" mindset as I see it.
...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or he s trying to please his wife...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grousewood View Post
He is such a second child - feeling that he doesn't measure up and completely unaware of his strong points, at the same time socially adept and in his case, charismatic. He has always been popular because he relates so well to people, but as you say, he looks so so unsure of himself when he is with her. She is a very strong woman and a bit overconfident in my opinion. I've always had a soft spot for him and I just hope he is adjusting well and is happy. Remember, he has said he wished he had an out a long time ago, way before Meghan came on the scene. Well, is escape is very drastic - hardly anything left of his old life. That's why I say that I hope he is adjusting well and is happy.
but he seems to feel that people dont like him, or at least don't like him and Meg as a couple and that's why they wanted to control putting out their own news so that they minimized criticism from the Press which upsets them. So, well, I don't know..? Does he think that the slightest criticism no matter how fair or well meant, is a sign that people DONT like him and he gets upset by it...?
And truth is that apart from ardent fans I suspect the press and the public ARE more cool or critical about them than they used to be...so in his new life, he's going to get more unkind press, more negativity...
Did he want to get out years ago because he just didn't like the routine, or because he felt he wasn't liked then? Because back a few years ago, I think he was genuinely one of the more popular royals. I think its gonna go downhill from now on. THe Americans may like him or may be indifferent to him.. the British will get more indifferent the longer he spends abroad.
  #1346  
Old 08-09-2020, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or hes trying to please his wife...
I hope he won't be just adrift for the rest of his life as his great uncle was. I will say that I am also conservative and have no patience for the "woke" movement. In their new life they could be so inspirational and be a positive force if they just don't mire in political stuff. She is brilliant, he is charismatic, and they clearly love each other....so much going for them, but which roads will they take in their new life?
  #1347  
Old 08-09-2020, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grousewood View Post
I hope he won't be just adrift for the rest of his life as his great uncle was. I will say that I am also conservative and have no patience for the "woke" movement. In their new life they could be so inspirational and be a positive force if they just don't mire in political stuff. She is brilliant, he is charismatic, and they clearly love each other....so much going for them, but which roads will they take in their new life?
But how? I can't see what they can do that is so inspirational frankly.. and I think they have to say a few political things in order to get noticed...
I dont know if H was all that charismatic at best, but even if he was, now I suspect people see him as complaining and whining and talking about things he doesn't understand that well and the charisma will fade...And Meg IMO is far from brilliant.. She may be a bit cleverer and better educated than Harry but she really IMO didn't score very well on even trying to understand the royal life she had married into...
They dont want (IMO anyway_) to become charity workers in a small helpful way, they want to be seen as "philanthropists" who say clever things.. But making speeches IMo doesn't feed the hungry or nurse the sick. I'd think a lot more of them if they did just get on with doing some useful work, even if it was typing in a charity office or cooking meals on wheels...
  #1348  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age So I suppose Im a bit unfair to him when I see him coming up with this "studenty" mindset as I see it.
...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or he s trying to please his wife...
I am of their generation so I feel it is fair to comment.

They seem to be on the bandwagon with so many celebrities with the cause du jour, hashtag activism and empty gesturing. In my view Harry should either do what he was born to do and follow his duty to the country and Commonwealth, or if he steps back from public life get a job like his cousins have done and live a private life - the press would soon forget him and he could like he seems to intimate he has always wanted to live.

With the rank he was born with his inherited wealth the posturing and preaching is really grating and not at all edifying.
  #1349  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:31 AM
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A couple of points: William and Iskip's opinions on Meghan. At the end of the day Harry, by law, had to get the queen's consent to marry her. I'm certain there was a background check was done on Meghan before the consent was given. I don't like her because A, B or C was not enough for a royal thumbs down. Adjustments were to be made and time should have been - royal households giving orders to courtiers to leave negative stories to the press to force Meghan into line was a wrong call. Bad blood in the house of Windsor? Everyone needs to own that.

Meghan's paternal family - let's not forget Meghan has not had contact with some of her family in over a decade. Sam and Jr has gone on record with the press, pre and post wedding, demanding their father should be given financial support because of the "care" and bills he paid. Finding Freedom had exposed Dad getting a percentage of the pre-wedding pap photos; court papers for the lawsuit stated Dad didn't pay 100% of Meghan's college education as claimed in the press. That gave away the game: the Markles see Harry and the BRF as their personal ATM machines and loan officers to support them for the rest of their lives. I would not be surprised if the Sussexes took legal steps to make sure no Markle gets custody of Archie should anything happened to them, and I don't blame them.

Harry's change of views - Harry grew up seeing the the world in one way and with his connection with Meghan he has seen the world from her perspective and the impact it had on their family. Harry is not allowed to change his mind on his own? Or it is easier to say he's controlled by his wife?
  #1350  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but he seems to feel that people dont like him, or at least don't like him and Meg as a couple and that's why they wanted to control putting out their own news so that they minimized criticism from the Press which upsets them. So, well, I don't know..? Does he think that the slightest criticism no matter how fair or well meant, is a sign that people DONT like him and he gets upset by it...?
And truth is that apart from ardent fans I suspect the press and the public ARE more cool or critical about them than they used to be...so in his new life, he's going to get more unkind press, more negativity...
Did he want to get out years ago because he just didn't like the routine, or because he felt he wasn't liked then? Because back a few years ago, I think he was genuinely one of the more popular royals. I think its gonna go downhill from now on. THe Americans may like him or may be indifferent to him.. the British will get more indifferent the longer he spends abroad.
Or he thinks that people don't like his idol. The idol he worships and (almost desperately?) clings on to. Meghan.
You try take the most precious idol a shaman has and ridicule it in front of him. Don't expect a positive response!

Perhaps I too have been entirely wrong about Harry?

I used to see Harry as a bloke. A guy you'd have fun with, share a beer with and dirty stories. And feel happy for when he finally settled down with someone he loved and hopefully had a family of his own.
I have known and know several "Harrys."
A guy with flaws, but also a good heart, a mate you could count on and relate to.

But he sure has changed! More than the "Harrys" I know.

So what is happening?

In no particular order, but just going through my mind:
A) He is having personal issues. And they have become more pronounced than beforehand where he was able to hide it from the public.
We may be seeing some kind of breakdown?

B) We are finally seeing the genuine Harry. The facade is down. This is his true self. A self previously only known to a very few. A very self-centered Harry.
And Meghan is somehow caught up in this whirlwind of events.

C) Harry has seen the light. The light here being Meghan, or perhaps rather an idol, who happens to be a human being named Meghan. Everything positive in this world is personified in Meghan, she is his anchor.
You cannot argue with someone who has seen the light. The world has become binary, it's 0 or 1.
Such an epiphany is not unusual.

D) Meghan is a very skilled and ruthless manipulator, who has managed somehow to manipulate Harry to do her bidding. He has become her slave and she has managed to separate Harry from family and friends in order to control him.

E) Two very self-centered individuals have met and they together have created a distorted view of themselves and the world around them, not to mention their own importance in this surreal world.
They fuel each other. And they cannot accept people who differ from or criticize what H&M are doing, because what they are doing is right and just.
They need people around them who can confirm their worldview and their importance.
This book was supposed to vindicate H&M and in rational eyes it's a PR-disaster!
But if you turn it around and look at the book through completely self-centered eyes, then it makes more sense. It makes perfect sense to cut off your brother and one of your very best friends for slighting you - surely everybody can see that?!?

F) Harry is right. William and Tom Inskip are racist/snobbish. The British press is most unreasonable and borderline racist. The British public (in particular) is wrong and petty.
H&M's requests were reasonable. Their visions and the ideas they wish to promote are right, important and worthy of a global audience.
H&M should not waste their lives, visions and voices on mere national issues, when there are much more important global issues to address.

G) Your suggestion.

- These are the - sad - possibilities that are in my mind at present.
  #1351  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Just a handful of corrections:
It is more likely that Patrick have is notice and from there Meghan role became redundant, I didn’t watch suits, but it seems like her character was really nothing but his love interest.
But I think her exit was actually thought of before that, something that the show runners said that made me think they were working on writing her out once her contract ended, which for most shows of that low rating tends to be until season 7.


She moved to the U.K. in late Nov, a week later they announced the engagement.


(And as someone who exprienced so many similar changes in a short time span, moving states, countries, jobs, losing a furbaby... three years in since being back in my home country, i’m only now starting to adjust, and covid has been a huge blessing about that actually!)
I remember reading about this on TV Line as I enjoyed reading about tv, even shows I never watched. Meghan actually gave notice in November 2017, and Patrick J. Adams didn’t make his exit official until January 2018.

https://tvline.com/2017/11/28/meghan...7-rachel-zane/

https://tvline.com/2018/01/30/patric...isode-airdate/
  #1352  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Cutting-off seems to be Meghan's strategy as well; so it might have intensified. While some relationships might end up toxic/not worthy to maintain, the primary response should be to work things out (and as a person you will grow in the process) - cutting off/leaving should only be the ultimate solution if everything else failed. However, if this is quite often the solution someone ends up with, it's probably indicating that that person should work on themselves/harder to prevent that from happening that often.
Yes, it has been her way....and I suspect she’s rubbed off on Harry. Their premature exit as working Royals makes sense when you look at it in context of their personal relationships. Just as they quit friendships the moment they see a bump in the road (meaning someone dares to express concern about something or is not completely gung ho about their actions), H and M quit as working Royals. They were asked to be patient, but they couldn’t and didn’t want to. I would say that both H and M have to work on this aspect of themselves.

Mirabel:

Quote:
Harry hardly seems recognizable any more.
I always viewed him as a lightweight intellectually, yet a happy-go-lucky type who would always enjoy life.

Now I wonder how I could have been so wrong! He seems a mass of issues, angry and opinionated.

I don't want to put it all on Meghan; Harry didn't change overnight, and he is responsible for his own actions.
I couldn't agree more
  #1353  
Old 08-09-2020, 11:51 AM
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Fantastic analysis Muhler. As with most things the truth is probably a combination of all your points. By his own admission Harry seems to be psychologically and emotionally damaged. Meghan has filled a need in him in a way his family, friends and advisors were unable to do. I do seem to be very hard on Meghan, so to put it nicely by "saving" this damaged man she found a vehicle for what seems to be some sort of messianic mission she believe she can deliver to humanity. The sad thing is that neither are particularly talented or have much to offer aside from Harry's heritage as a springboard to launch themselves to the world.
  #1354  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:33 PM
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Muhler, I think it's a combination of everything except F.

Acccording to the book, Harry was obsessed with Meghan from the start, he was in a trance while with her on that early date. That's not love, even if he thought it was; whatever he thought he was looking for, he apparently found. I get defending your spouse - everyone should do that - but at the expense of personal relationships? At the expense of your own character? No, Meghan doesn't get to have everything she wants just because she asks for it. This relates to Tommy's post.

Tommy:

Quote:
b) to give Meghan time to get to know how the RF works. This was IMO one of the things that has caused the most problems for them as a couple, Meghan quite honestly doesn't now how the RF operate both as a family and as a "business" and Harry has distain for it so when she put (even quite honestly) a foot wrong Harry leapt to her defence and proclaimed how out-dated and evil the monarchy is. Allowing her more time to see how it works, what is done and not done etc would have allowed her to understanding it better herself, without so much of Harry's influence and allowed her to make better informed decisions about which things she truly 'didn't like' and would want to do differently, or even decide she didn't want to be part of "official life" at all. That would have been much more acceptable if it had been laid out at the start of their marriage than a year into it. TBH more and more over time I have come to feel Harry has done Meghan wrong in a way by not guiding her better into the RF.


I'm beginning to think that Harry is one of those people who think that if he avoids problems, if he pushes them aside, that they will just disappear, never to crop up again. Someone suggested in another post that possibly he never apprised Meghan of the reality of life in the BRF because he was afraid of losing her. Voila - I agree. So, like you said, Tommy, he didn't educate Meghan in the ways of the BRF....and in not doing so, he definitely "done her wrong" as country songs would say. I've spoken about Meghan's negative influence on Harry, but now I'll talk about his on her. His disdain and lack of respect for the institution he grew up in is evident every time he makes one of those statements he's become infamous for. Heaven knows how he spoke about his family and the monarchy to her as they got to know each other.....
  #1355  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Muhler, I think it's a combination of everything except F.


I'm beginning to think that Harry is one of those people who think that if he avoids problems, if he pushes them aside, that they will just disappear, never to crop up again. Someone suggested in another post that possibly he never apprised Meghan of the reality of life in the BRF because he was afraid of losing her. Voila - I agree. So, like you said, Tommy, he didn't educate Meghan in the ways of the BRF....and in not doing so, he definitely "done her wrong" as country songs would say. I've spoken about Meghan's negative influence on Harry, but now I'll talk about his on her. His disdain and lack of respect for the institution he grew up in is evident every time he makes one of those statements he's become infamous for. Heaven knows how he spoke about his family and the monarchy to her as they got to know each other.....
Interesting.

But surely Meghan would have an interest in insisting to learn what it means to be a prominent working royal?

It's not like Harry put a glass-shoe on her foot the day before.
She could have read books, watched documentaries, asked questions. - Pretty much like she would have prepared for a role actually.

So while Harry might have wished to shield her, Meghan could and should have insisted on preparing herself.
She's after all a mature woman who by all accounts is able to stand up for herself
And she cannot have been so ignorant that she thought being royal was only about cutting ribbons, waving and smiling.
- Unless her view of being a working royal was already distorted?
  #1356  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
A couple of points: William and Iskip's opinions on Meghan. At the end of the day Harry, by law, had to get the queen's consent to marry her. I'm certain there was a background check was done on Meghan before the consent was given. I don't like her because A, B or C was not enough for a royal thumbs down. Adjustments were to be made and time should have been - royal households giving orders to courtiers to leave negative stories to the press to force Meghan into line was a wrong call. Bad blood in the house of Windsor? Everyone needs to own that.

Meghan's paternal family - let's not forget Meghan has not had contact with some of her family in over a decade. Sam and Jr has gone on record with the press, pre and post wedding, demanding their father should be given financial support because of the "care" and bills he paid. Finding Freedom had exposed Dad getting a percentage of the pre-wedding pap photos; court papers for the lawsuit stated Dad didn't pay 100% of Meghan's college education as claimed in the press. That gave away the game: the Markles see Harry and the BRF as their personal ATM machines and loan officers to support them for the rest of their lives. I would not be surprised if the Sussexes took legal steps to make sure no Markle gets custody of Archie should anything happened to them, and I don't blame them.

Harry's change of views - Harry grew up seeing the the world in one way and with his connection with Meghan he has seen the world from her perspective and the impact it had on their family. Harry is not allowed to change his mind on his own? Or it is easier to say he's controlled by his wife?
Of course can marry who he wants, I said time and time again in my post he should do so, this was about saying that some of the unhappiness they are experiencing could have been avoided in various ways.

I suspect there are very very few women the Queen would not have given her consent to (and those she wouldn't would have to be some sort of criminals or the like). This isn't about technicalities and legality but about them having a better life and things turning out better than they did. William asking his brother if he is sure and if he wouldn't be better to wait and give it more time is nothing to do with HM not giving consent, its a concerned man asking his brother to be 100% sure, that is what any family should or would do especially given the circumstances of a long distance relationship and marrying into the RF.

I'm not sure where "royal households giving orders to courtiers to leave negative stories to the press to force Meghan into line was a wrong call." comes from as I don't see any evidence of that.

I'm not going to argue and argue I jus think this jumping to the "legal options" and HM not giving consent is the sort of extreme attitude that has led H&M to the current sad situation we have seen. We don't have to jump to extremes, HM would be very unlikely not to give consent to the marriage, that doesn't mean the family may not be asking Harry to wait and see or slow things down. Remember even HM was asked to wait and see if Philip truly was the one, she did and he was.


Muhler - I agree, I think most people would want to be 100% sure they know how the "family business" they are marrying into works before committing. Given how prepared about many things Meghan seems to be, I'm quite surprised about her willingly jumping into the RF so quickly. I certainly think Harry influenced her views on it with his own negative thinking, probably heightened having seen W&K become the golden couple due to their path in live meaning they are future King & Queen.
  #1357  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:32 PM
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I agree with a lot of things written here but maybe someone can start a new thread, this one has gone far from concerning the book.
  #1358  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Muhler - I agree, I think most people would want to be 100% sure they know how the "family business" they are marrying into works before committing. Given how prepared about many things Meghan seems to be, I'm quite surprised about her willingly jumping into the RF so quickly. I certainly think Harry influenced her views on it with his own negative thinking, probably heightened having seen W&K become the golden couple due to their path in live meaning they are future King & Queen.
Interesting.

So envy, or perhaps rather a desire for him being a significant part of the future profile of the BRF as well, may have played a crucial factor in how Harry in particular defined the roles for him and Meghan?

That sure has been suggested many times in the reactions to this book, here and elsewhere.
And H&M have through this book more than hinted that it was the senior BRF members (and William) who prevented H&M from fulfilling their destiny, so to speak. Hence their exit.

The question is of course whether this falling out with his brother (and mate) is based on Harry having a very inflated view of his own importance, i.e. a character-flaw or based on his personal issues.
It is puzzling as Harry since birth would have known his future role - being a support of the monarch at any given time.

In other words: Harry feels he has not been given the jobs and recognition he deserves - including from his brother? So that the falling out of his brother regarding Meghan was the final straw? Now that he was to have a wife and as such could form a team on equal footing with W&K? The future of the BRF, as he envisioned it.

- Please bear with me, it's an ongoing thought process.
  #1359  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:55 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: jersey shore, United States
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Or he thinks that people don't like his idol. The idol he worships and (almost desperately?) clings on to. Meghan.
You try take the most precious idol a shaman has and ridicule it in front of him. Don't expect a positive response!

Perhaps I too have been entirely wrong about Harry?

I used to see Harry as a bloke. A guy you'd have fun with, share a beer with and dirty stories. And feel happy for when he finally settled down with someone he loved and hopefully had a family of his own.
I have known and know several "Harrys."
A guy with flaws, but also a good heart, a mate you could count on and relate to.

But he sure has changed! More than the "Harrys" I know.

So what is happening?

In no particular order, but just going through my mind:
A) He is having personal issues. And they have become more pronounced than beforehand where he was able to hide it from the public.
We may be seeing some kind of breakdown?

B) We are finally seeing the genuine Harry. The facade is down. This is his true self. A self previously only known to a very few. A very self-centered Harry.
And Meghan is somehow caught up in this whirlwind of events.

C) Harry has seen the light. The light here being Meghan, or perhaps rather an idol, who happens to be a human being named Meghan. Everything positive in this world is personified in Meghan, she is his anchor.
You cannot argue with someone who has seen the light. The world has become binary, it's 0 or 1.
Such an epiphany is not unusual.

D) Meghan is a very skilled and ruthless manipulator, who has managed somehow to manipulate Harry to do her bidding. He has become her slave and she has managed to separate Harry from family and friends in order to control him.

E) Two very self-centered individuals have met and they together have created a distorted view of themselves and the world around them, not to mention their own importance in this surreal world.
They fuel each other. And they cannot accept people who differ from or criticize what H&M are doing, because what they are doing is right and just.
They need people around them who can confirm their worldview and their importance.
This book was supposed to vindicate H&M and in rational eyes it's a PR-disaster!
But if you turn it around and look at the book through completely self-centered eyes, then it makes more sense. It makes perfect sense to cut off your brother and one of your very best friends for slighting you - surely everybody can see that?!?

F) Harry is right. William and Tom Inskip are racist/snobbish. The British press is most unreasonable and borderline racist. The British public (in particular) is wrong and petty.
H&M's requests were reasonable. Their visions and the ideas they wish to promote are right, important and worthy of a global audience.
H&M should not waste their lives, visions and voices on mere national issues, when there are much more important global issues to address.

G) Your suggestion.

- These are the - sad - possibilities that are in my mind at present.
WOW

So many people I would “quote” but I think ‘B’ and ‘D’ are pretty accurate Muhler...

Way up thread, Osipi mentioned the practice speech for Invictus. I remember thinking then, now she’s directing him. Also remember him pitching a job for her at The Lion King Premier.

In my estimation, there is nothing wrong when someone close to you pre wedding asks if you are sure. It’s because they care.

Harry’s true self seems to be emerging before us. I think Madam has always been very deliberate in her own career pre Harry and nothing is going to stop her. She knows what she wants. I think she’s very deliberate in that. Something in me thinks that most folks who pursue acting dream of Hollywood as the goalpost. Any obstacles, including people, are tossed to the wind without looking back. Harry might have spewed about leaving but it seems he needed a crutch to hang on to. Yes, I do believe she fueled and exploited his rage and anger and all those things to benefit herself. He seems hypnotized by her. Slowly, it’s possible that ‘nobody cares about me’ turned to ‘nobody cares about us’ sort of thing. It is sad.

Recently I saw a pic of Harry and thought it looked like he jumped out of bed to give a speech or whatever he was on about. It is sad to see.

Sounds crazy, I know, but my gut tells me somewhere down the road, we’re going to be on here discussing California is a 50-50 state.

Manipulate, ABSOLUTELY
  #1360  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:57 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,430
William, Kate and Harry were operating as a trio to some extent, especially with their mental health campaign. Then the three became the "Fab Four", as the media were saying, which made them sound like a cross between the Beatles and a gang in an Enid Blyton book :-) . Then it really became First Pair and Second Pair, or First Couple and Second Couple. So I suppose Harry did feel that he'd been demoted, in a way that never really happened with, say, Princess Anne or Princess Margaret. But he's always known that that was how it'd be.
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