Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Kataryn]

What are you trying to say? That the BRF should buy the Sussexes off to secure their discretion?

Right now they are probably already getting a hefty sum from Charles and his Duchy income.

Yes. And why not? So it is clear that they are just "distant relatives", not when it comes to family, but when it comes to "the Crown".

 

[Madame Verseau]

@nightsky - I don't think the Cambridges fully "understand" the royal game, otherwise KP would not have fired back at Kate's Botox story and the Tatler hit piece on her. And William really shouldn't have sic the lawyers when it was hinted in the tabloids he has cheated on Kate. I wonder if Meghan's dad and paternal family is going to get a treatment.

 

[Lee-Z]

Let's not go into this idea that the BRF is prefect in every way. They are not. Especially if certain households were giving orders to courtiers (call them for what they are, employees) to put out bad stories about the Sussexes to deflect from your own messes is unacceptable. I don't care where one falls in the royal pecking order; it's wrong.

Do you have any references to this happening? Or is this a 'what if' situation?

(and no, nobody is perfect, so also no one in the BRF, including HM, and H&M)

 

[Lumutqueen]

@nightsky - I don't think the Cambridges fully "understand" the royal game, otherwise KP would not have fired back at Kate's Botox story and the Tatler hit piece on her. And William really shouldn't have sic the lawyers when it was hinted in the tabloids he has cheated on Kate.

Other than KP commenting on the Tatler piece which IMO was primarily due to the lack of prior warning from Tatler to KP.

Can you explain the other two things you mention?

 

[Nico]

Let's not go into this idea that the BRF is prefect in every way. They are not. Especially if certain households were giving orders to courtiers (call them for what they are, employees) to put out bad stories about the Sussexes to deflect from your own messes is unacceptable. I don't care where one falls in the royal pecking order; it's wrong.

You said the word "If".
All is, again and again, pure speculation. Or maybe you have some decent sources to share ? (and not from the DM where you seem to spend days and nights).

This book is trashy as hell and Scoby-doo really sounds the brat is truly is.

As expected nothing good will come out from this book, and certainely not, surprinsingly, the Sussexes image. Oh i guess this pamphlet will have some kind of sucess, especially in the US, where the intended readership is.

In the UK it's safe to say that the Sussexes are done. Oh of course some attacks against the Cambridges will make some headlines, but i guess that nothing serious will damage the image of the future King and Queen, especially after their very commendable role during the pandemic.

Because yes timing is everything , and, rightly or wrongly, the Sussexes appear more and more as isolated and sefl-indulged people who spend ages in legal battles in a World falling apart. On the contray the Cambridges , with the old moto "Keep calm and carry on", are more popular than ever.

So i wish good read to all the Harry and Meghan fans and i have no doubt they will find some bitter aguments to continue their quest. But i'm affraid it will be a somewhat lonely journey, as the Cambridges, the Monarchy and the UK have better things to do nowadays and are well above any form of easy controversy regarding another useless family feud.

To summarize this book : "Who cares ?"

 

[Kopper]

I was reading through the Norwegian Royal Family posts on here last night and have to say, I was very surprised to see some of the older media articles posted about Mette-Marit. Media was even speculating about her being a security threat. Yikes! Poor woman had a rough time. Although she seems well-liked now.

 

[Muhler]

I was reading through the Norwegian Royal Family posts on here last night and have to say, I was very surprised to see some of the older media articles posted about Mette-Marit. Media was even speculating about her being a security threat. Yikes! Poor woman had a rough time. Although she seems well-liked now.

Congratulations on your first post.

But I think you are in the wrong thread. ?

 

[Kopper]

Thanks! I was trying to reply to a post that mentioned other Royals who had a rough ride from the media. Ack! I need to check out settings to make my replies clearer. Hopefully no one will judge the new person too harshly.

 

[acdc1]

Thanks! I was trying to reply to a post that mentioned other Royals who had a rough ride from the media. Ack! I need to check out settings to make my replies clearer. Hopefully no one will judge the new person too harshly.

Welcome! Just as a quick tip, if you click “quote” on the comment you want to reply to, it will put it in your text box so that it’s clear which post you’re replying to.

 

[Hallo girl]

You said the word "If".
All is, again and again, pure speculation. Or maybe you have some decent sources to share ? (and not from the DM where you seem to spend days and nights).

This book is trashy as hell and Scoby-doo really sounds the brat is truly is.

As expected nothing good will come out from this book, and certainely not, surprinsingly, the Sussexes image. Oh i guess this pamphlet will have some kind of sucess, especially in the US, where the intended readership is.

In the UK it's safe to say that the Sussexes are done. Oh of course some attacks against the Cambridges will make some headlines, but i guess that nothing serious will damage the image of the future King and Queen, especially after their very commendable role during the pandemic.

Because yes timing is everything , and, rightly or wrongly, the Sussexes appear more and more as isolated and sefl-indulged people who spend ages in legal battles in a World falling apart. On the contray the Cambridges , with the old moto "Keep calm and carry on", are more popular than ever.

So i wish good read to all the Harry and Meghan fans and i have no doubt they will find some bitter aguments to continue their quest. But i'm affraid it will be a somewhat lonely journey, as the Cambridges, the Monarchy and the UK have better things to do nowadays and are well above any form of easy controversy regarding another useless family feud.

To summarize this book : "Who cares ?"

Well said Nico, summed things up very well.

 

[Alison H]

I was reading through the Norwegian Royal Family posts on here last night and have to say, I was very surprised to see some of the older media articles posted about Mette-Marit. Media was even speculating about her being a security threat. Yikes! Poor woman had a rough time. Although she seems well-liked now.

Congratulations on your first post . Yes, as you say, a lot of people are given a rough time when they marry into a royal family. Everyone will have their own opinions on this, but I personally don't see that it was any worse for Meghan than for anyone else.

I do find all this incredibly sad. Look how close the Queen and Princess Margaret always were, despite their very different personalities, and how close Kate and Pippa and James are. Harry and William still looked so close when William was Harry's best man. How did it all go so wrong in 18 months?

 

[akina21]

I can’t say I’m surprised..

The “largely” part regarding Charles is interesting, but clearly Harry and Meghan’s biggest issues were and have been with William and Kate.

Well , Charles is paying their bills , can't piss him off too much .

 

[Denville]

Well, I suspect “ the ordinary country house” was already an improvement over the place where she lived when she was in Canada shooting Suits. And Harry originally shared Kensington Palace, which is a big house, with other royals. He chose to move to Frogmore cottage precisely to have more room for his family and have his own house, which is understandable.

Comparing to the situation Harry is in now, he and his family have been without a home of their own for over 6 months , moving from country to country and now living in a stranger’s house, reportedly thanks to his “ generosity”. I couldn’t think of a more demeaning situation, especially for a prince of the United Kingdom.

I agree about Frogmore but I think that Meghan was expecting more... and I agree about Harry and hte house in LA.. but - that's what he has chosen to do.

 

[Denville]

One thing however - I hope that somewhere someone is leaving a door open for them to return. Personally I see Harry has his back to a wall, trending water when there is rough water and there might be really rough water - Harry might need help and if there isn’t I worried what might happen.

WHy on earht should the RF take either of them back?

I would not be surprised if Meghan didn’t care enough about the negative sides of Royal life, if she put her fingers in her ears and went “nah, nah, I can’t hear you”. Or, maybe she heard and she seriously underestimated (which I find hard to believe unless Harry was idiotic and didn’t emphasize strongly enough) how different her life would be. The fact that she’s been whining about no one in the BRF publicly defending her tells me either she knows nothing at all about the BRF or she thinks she’s special.

I think she didn't want to hear anything, because she saw the marriage into the RF as a stepping stone. Possibly she originally meant to stick things out for a few years before moving back to the US either full or part time.. having had a few years as "Royal Duchess" to raise her profile she felt she could then use that to "sell herself " or herself and H in the US. So she knew she had to do a few years as a working royal to get the public notice..and did not want to hear that she might get a lot of negative commentary, that the press might be unkind, that Royal life might prove more difficult than she imagined...

 

[Kataryn]

I think she didn't want to hear anything, because she saw the marriage into the RF as a stepping stone. Possibly she originally meant to stick things out for a few years before moving back to the US either full or part time.. having had a few years as "Royal Duchess" to raise her profile she felt she could then use that to "sell herself " or herself and H in the US. So she knew she had to do a few years as a working royal to get the public notice..and did not want to hear that she might get a lot of negative commentary, that the press might be unkind, that Royal life might prove more difficult than she imagined...

But is that her fault? That the media was unkind, that the "grey men" had nothing in common with her?

I thoroughly enjoyed her time as a Royal Duchess and I understand why she thought she had to leave. Pay her and Harry off for the experiement went ugly and that's it! If only the media would keep quiet but at least the DM is not reporting so much trash anymore. Harry is Charles' child, so will be the son of a king and thus the monarch has a duty to take care of him and his family. That can't be helped. But other than that, just let them get away and do what they want. Lets hope they are some sort of decent. At least they calimed they had nothing to do with that book. Other than that? We have more important things to worry about, IMHO.

 

[Denville]

Most royal brides these days seem to get a lot of media and Social media unkindness. Its not fair.. but it does happen. It isn't unique to Meghan. And Harry surely could have warned her that the British tabloid press is pretty harsh.. so I don't know how she can say that she wasn't warned.

She and Harry wanted to leave, why should the RF "pay her off"??? She and H claimed that they wanted to be part time, so that they could earn their own money.. so.. let them earn their own money and let the RF pay for its working members. I can't see why Charles has some obligation to pay for a son he has been helping out financially all his life up to now, who has in essence said that he wants to make his own living. If they want financial independence then they should have financial independence.. but instead they are living free in a house belonging to a stranger.. and almost certainly still receiving money from Harry's father.
And of course they are going to claim that they had noting to do with this book. Diana too insisted that she had nothing to do with the Morton book and Morton revealed after her death that she had been involved in a very big way...

 

[Muhler]

I've seen more excerpts from the book and oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!

I seems like the authors are pointing a finger at not least Kate (and William) and using petty examples to back that up. Like not having eye contact at a public event, or not shopping together.

It's a toe-curlingly wrong approach! - Explain, don't blame. - Or it will backfire.
Here it comes across as whining and not accepting some responsibility themselves. And if there is something Joe and Jolene Average don't want to listen to it's a whiner, who blames everybody but herself.

These authors are supposed to be friendly to H&M. Well, with friends like that, H&M don't need enemies!

 

[Betsypaige]

Yes, and this rift was more or less confirmed by Harry in that famous Southern Africa documentary - even though some wanted to interpret it differently at that time.


This to me has been the heart of the problem from the start: Meghan saw her marriage to Harry as a way to advance her own goals (promote her views and causes on the world stage - while also reaching world fame) instead of as a commitment to a man and the family he represents to serve the monarch to the best of their abilities (in which there also would be plenty of room to advance causes that you personally care about).

It’s all true.....and how hypocritical of Harry to take that rift to the media, the media he detests with a passion? Oh wait, it doesn’t count because Tom Bradby is a mouthpiece.

Meghan went into this not respecting the monarchy. If she had, she’d not have made this all about herself. Like you said, the Royals have their “pet” causes; they aren’t held prisoner (despite what the title of the book implies), they just have to abide by certain restrictions. Meghan doesn’t understand that the idea is to support the monarch. She might have looked to her father-in-law for an image of someone who truly gave it all up for the woman he loved. He had to give up his career and essentially walk behind his wife for the rest of his life... but he made it work. M hasn’t had nearly those restrictions...

Mbruno, thanks!

A parure set is.a set of matching jewelry normally consisting of a tiara , a necklace and earrings, maybe also stomachers , brooches and bracelets.

 

[Osipi]

Well , Charles is paying their bills , can't piss him off too much .

We know this? How? Its been surmised that Charles is helping out financially but there's been no credible statement that says this is so.

WHy on earht should the RF take either of them back?

One reason that comes to my mind. They're family. People in families make mistakes and sometimes something that looks like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow ends up being a pot of fool's gold. Should it happen that because of the pandemic, the Sussexes come to believe that they've really bitten off way more than they can chew, I'm sure the family would welcome them back home and to the "Firm" without second thoughts.

 

[Denville]

It’s all true.....and how hypocritical of Harry to take that rift to the media, the media he detests with a passion? Oh wait, it doesn’t count because Tom Bradby is a mouthpiece.

Meghan went into this not respecting the monarchy. If she had, she’d not have made this all about herself. Like you said, the Royals have their “pet” causes; they aren’t held prisoner (despite what the title of the book implies), they just have to abide by certain restrictions. Meghan doesn’t understand that the idea is to support the monarch. She might have looked to her father-in-law for an image of someone who truly gave it all up for the woman he loved. He had to give up his career and essentially walk behind his wife for the rest of his life... but he made it work. M hasn’t had nearly those restrictions...

Mbruno, thanks!

The more I've seen of them since they left I find it easer to believe that (whatever Meghan has convinced herself) her motives were not just to do "her own kind" of charity work, but to also make her own money. I think that she did consciously or unconsciously see the royal marriage as a stepping stone not to "doing different kind of charity work" but to fame and fortune.. She needed a few years of being a royal duchess to get famous enough to go back to the US and start a business career (which would also involve "glamourous philanthropy" )... She may have wanted to give it 3 to 5years, initially and to be a part time business person.. but didn't realize that she couldn't be part time. And didn't realize that she might find the UK so uncongenial that it was hard to stick out 3 to 5 years.. But IMO that's because she didnt know enough about the UK, didn't listen if anyone told her what it was like.. and possibly Harry didn't really tell her that much becuase he was so thrilled that she was marrying him..nad didn't want to put her off...

 

[nightsky]

I really want to believe that the Sussex’s didn’t have anything to do with the book, but Harry is Diana’s soon. It’s right out of her playbook.

I think this book isn’t going to make anyone look good. I find it hard to believe that Harry didn’t realize that sometimes Charles’ projects came before his. From reading what I have, IMO it makes the Sussex’s seem out of touch.

 

[Denville]

We know this? How? Its been surmised that Charles is helping out financially but there's been no credible statement that says this is so.



One reason that comes to my mind. They're family. People in families make mistakes and sometimes something that looks like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow ends up being a pot of fool's gold. Should it happen that because of the pandemic, the Sussexes come to believe that they've really bitten off way more than they can chew, I'm sure the family would welcome them back home and to the "Firm" without second thoughts.

On a personal level I think Charles would like Harry to come back.. but on a working level NO. He is not going to be liked in the Uk after all that he and Meg hav said and done in the past 6 months or so. He chose to move to USA when the pandemic struck.. so presumably he preferred that to being in the UK.. so he shoudl stay there..
And I doubt if Charles wants Meghan back...

Well , Charles is paying their bills , can't piss him off too much .

True. I think that Harry is peeved over WIll's natural question as to whether his relationship with Meghan was moving too fast and he is still sulky over this and over the fact that William is the future king and not him. And as Charles is the money giver, he probably does not want to offend him..

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

This book to me seems like the last few episodes of a series where all the tensions with the characters unravel. In other words, not a good thing for the Sussexes or anyone else close to them!

 

[nightsky]

What Really Happened When Prince William and Prince Harry Had a Falling Out?

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/07/prince-william-prince-harry-falling-out-finding-freedom

 

[Muhler]

What Really Happened When Prince William and Prince Harry Had a Falling Out?

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/07/prince-william-prince-harry-falling-out-finding-freedom

So if correct, and I guess the gist of it at least is correct.
Harry fell out with his brother because he, true or not, believed William disapproved of her.
And instead of telling his brother, his close relative, what he felt and give William the benefit of doubt, he reacted with bitterness?

Sounds like something I've heard before.
Why didn't Harry grab William by the wing-bone and ask: "What the H do you mean with: This girl?!?"

Well, it's not the first time someone in love have turned their back on people close and dear to them, in the defense of their new love.
How many family feuds have started on such a tenuous basis?

And of course William being human, would have been taken aback and probably felt hurt by Harry's reaction.
And if they didn't try to sit down and talk - and especially listen - the gap between them would have grown wider.

How tranquil the world would be, if people would only try and listen. - And how dull...

The problem in this is that logically the rest of the BRF senior members must also have expressed, what to Harry, were misgivings about Meghan. Otherwise he surely would have been able to live with "only" having an issue with his brother?

 

[Lilyflo]

I'm finding the extracts from this book very upsetting. I have huge affection for Harry & William as they're the same age as my own children and when they lost their mother, I grieved for them.

I've said for years that Harry appears to be floundering, whereas William found an anchor with the Middletons. Harry has spoken openly about his emotional struggles and it's clear he felt he'd found his own anchor with Meghan. I wonder if his deep desire to secure her & his impatient enthusiasm to be married & become a father impeded his ability to see the reality of his own situation and convey the restrictions to Meghan. He said he told her about the news media etc but being married to Harry was always going to involve far more difficulties than just the media.

I don't think Harry had (or has now) a sufficient understanding of what his royal role is and for that I hold Prince Charles largely (but not wholly) responsible (the details of my argument on this would be better placed in another thread). Harry is compassionate and a hard worker but he's a hothead and outside of the military, he's a rebel. It looks to me as though he sold Meghan a vision of exciting enterprises where they could use their platform to promote great causes and have a global impact. What he probably didn't do (because he doesn't understand or accept it himself) is describe their future as one of subservience to the monarchy, which in reality is what his role is. He can have ideas and pet projects but they have to sit within the monarchy's overall work and be subject to his grandmother's, father's and brother's veto.

The extent to which Meghan is to blame for their unhappiness, their departure (and the nature of it) should be considered alongside how poorly prepared she was for her new life. Her main source of information on how it would be and her main guide on how to navigate it was Harry, who was probably the least qualified person to fulfil that role.

It's a huge mess resulting from a lack of appropriate leadership, which does not bode well for the future. I'll leave it there for now but I'll probably say more as the book reveals more.

 

[Betsypaige]

What Really Happened When Prince William and Prince Harry Had a Falling Out?

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/07/prince-william-prince-harry-falling-out-finding-freedom

Harry is so ridiculously thin-skinned. I’m sure William didn’t mean anything by “this girl”..He hadn’t met Meghan and Harry hadn’t been dating her long. If H had an issue with his brother not supporting him (from his POV), then instead of getting in a huff, he should have told William how he felt. They could have had a conversation. Instead, Harry blew him off ...and didn’t even keep up his relationship with poor little George and Charlotte, who probably wondered where their uncle went. Louis is like, “Uncle Harry, who?”

 

[Hallo girl]

The alarm bells should have been ringing when she gave the interview to Vanity Fair when they were just dating. She courted the press then. Ensuring she confirmed that her and Harry were dating and it wasn't rumours.

Another one out of the Diana playbook. In her case it was photographs outside the nursery where she worked posing with children. That was while her and Charles were dating. Putting pressure on Charles.

 

[Denville]

I'm finding the extracts from this book very upsetting. I have huge affection for Harry & William as they're the same age as my own children and when they lost their mother, I grieved for them.

nderstanding of what his royal role is and for that I hold Prince Charles largely (but not wholly) responsible (the details of my argument on this would be better placed in another thread). Harry is compassionate and a hard worker but he's a hothead and outside of the military, he's a rebel. It looks to me as though he sold Meghan a vision of exciting enterprises where they could use their platform to promote great causes and have a global impact. What he probably didn't do (because he doesn't understand or accept it himself) is describe their future as one of subservience to the monarchy, which in reality is what his role is. He can have ideas and pet projects but they have to sit within the monarchy's overall work and be subject to his grandmother's, father's and brother's veto.

The extent to which Meghan is to blame for their unhappiness, their departure (and the nature of it) should be considered alongside how poorly prepared she was for her new life. Her main source of information on how it would be and her main guide on how to navigate it was Harry, who was probably the least qualified person to fulfil that role.

It's a huge mess resulting from a lack of appropriate leadership, which does not bode well for the future. I'll leave it there for now but I'll probably say more as the book reveals more.

What evidence is there that Megahn was "ill prepared" for her new life? She was the one who spoke of "hitting the ground running" and seemed to be very confidenet in her first year as a royal. Im sure she had the same preparation as other incoming wives...

 

[Hallo girl]

What evidence is there that Megahn was "ill prepared" for her new life? She was the one who spoke of "hitting the ground running" and seemed to be very confidenet in her first year as a royal. Im sure she had the same preparation as other incoming wives...

I am not sure if she had time to receive the same preparation as the other wives. Their courtship was conducted flying back and forth across the Atlantic.
They were engaged in the November and married in May. I would agree she wanted to make a difference etc etc, and indeed was very confident but just how prepared was she for the life within the palace.
This could be why William had asked whatever the question was he allegedly asked. Possibly simply based on the timescale not the person.