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  #1  
Old 12-11-2020, 05:32 AM
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Sex, name, godparents & duchy for Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia's third child

Now with the happy announcement we may start this thread:

A girl: Kristina Britta Agnes
A boy: Erik Philipp Mikael

Duchy: Jamtland

Godparents: Prince Daniel, Gustaf Magnusson, Vivien Sommerlath, two friends.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2020, 05:44 AM
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Names:
Prince Christian Gustaf Fredrik, Duke of Västerbotten
Princess Lilian Marie Silvia, Duchess of Västerbotten

Godparents:
HRH Prince Daniel of Sweden
Helena Sommerlath
Oscar Bergmann
Fredrik von der Esch
Frida Vesterberg
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:24 AM
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A third child and sibling for Alexander and Gabriel ...

A sister called Carla Victoria Kristina, born at Easter.
Godparents - Charlene, Daniel and two more friends.
I don't know which Duchy.
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:34 AM
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I'm very curious to see what the king will do in terms of duchy. This child won't be a royal highness, so it would make sense to give him/her a duchy more like Madeleine's children than a very traditional one like his/her older brothers (for example, Västerbotten was the duchy of someone who was meant to be king one day). Or maybe he'll find something in-between: a duchy that in recent history has been used for less prominent princes (or as a 'second dukedom'), such as Närke or Västmanland - both are in the same area as the others within CP's family
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:53 AM
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I would want the third child to be a Princess after two Princes.
As for the name, Estelle, Silvia, Ewa, Mary, Leonore, Lilian, Maria, Adrienne, Josephine and Alice have all been used. I would suggest Louise, Eugenie and Charlotte. I would want Louise to be the tilltalsnamn as Eugenie and Charlotte are too associated with the British Royal Family.
For a Prince, Nicolas, Paul, Gustaf, Oscar, Carl, Olof, Alexander, Erik, Hubertus, Bertil, Gabriel and Walther have all been used. I would suggest Eugen, Ludvig, Sigvard, Lennart, Folke and Johan.
As for the dukedom, since the Prince Couple's dukedoms are all in Svealand (Värmland for Carl Philip, Södermanland for Alexander, Dalarna for Gabriel), I would expect it to be Västmanland (last held by Erik, 1889-1918), Närke (last held by Eugen, 1865-1947), Uppland (last held by Sigvard, 1907-2002, whose spouse is still alive. Dukedom officially stripped in 1934.). Since Västmanland has the longest period of inactivity, I would suggest Västmanland to be the dukedom.
So, in short, I'm going for Princess Louise Eugenie Charlotte, Duchess of Västmanland.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:57 AM
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I hope it's a girla and I think for the first name they'll go with something trendy and modern. For middle names they might use Renate (since Silvia is used for Estelle) or maybe Alice for Silvia's mum, and of course Marie for Sofia's. And it's time that Norrland gets more attention, so:
Olivia Renate Marie, Duchess of Norrbotten
Vera Sibylla Marie, Duchess of Västerbotten
Lilly Renate Marie, Duchess of Härjedalen
Wilma Sibylla Marie, Duchess of Lappland

Edit: forgot that Alice is used for Adrienne, so I swap it for Sibylla for the King's mum.
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:57 AM
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Random guess:

Boy: Christian/Arthur/Hubert/Georg
Girl: Ingrid/Josephine/Louise/Alice
Duchy: Västmanland/Uppland

For the name my guess is something very royal in broad terms but not necessarily used in the family.
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:06 PM
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Boy: Elias Edmund Kristian
Girl: Olivia Marie Elisa

I also like the names Theodor, Oliver and Lucas as a calling name for a boy and Linnea, Amelia and Alva for a girl.

Duchy: Lapland

Godparents: Really hoping for Daniel
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:12 PM
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If it is a boy and if he still receives a duchy (something which cannot be taken for granted after the changes in 2019), my prediction is Halland, the duchy held by Prince Bertil. Prince Carl Philip seems to be treated as the "heir" to Prince Bertil, inheriting his residence and being regularly compared to him.

While Alexander and Gabriel are traditional European names, my understanding is that they are not perceived as at all "royal" in Sweden, and I predict the parents will again pick a name they are fond of without consulting the royal (or foreign royal) family trees.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:46 PM
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Halland would indeed be a beautiful nod to prince Bertil's heritage.

And I agree that a Duchy cannot be taken for granted but I don't think that the king would want this grandchild to be the only one without a ducal title (and especially not one in the male line), so my expectation is that this grandchild will also receive a duchy like his/her brothers and cousins.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Halland would indeed be a beautiful nod to prince Bertil's heritage.

And I agree that a Duchy cannot be taken for granted but I don't think that the king would want this grandchild to be the only one without a ducal title (and especially not one in the male line), so my expectation is that this grandchild will also receive a duchy like his/her brothers and cousins.
Yes, that's a good point. I mainly wondered whether his lawyers might believe he is pushing the boundaries by granting a duchy outside the Royal House for the first time in modern times, but since no one cared enough to object to the ex-members of the Royal House keeping their duchies, it is very unlikely to be an issue.

I agree that the King has shown special favor for his male descendants in male line, including on the subject of duchies (as Somebody and I discussed recently in Titles of the Swedish RF and Changes 2019), but it's doubtful he would have the same sentiments for female descendants in male line. That is why I think Halland may be likelier for a son than a daughter.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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Boy: Probably some name linked to Bernadottes. Perhaps Bertil, Arvid or Folke.
Girl: Hard to say. Probably some quiet traditional Swedish name.
Duchy: Probably something lesser used. Might be Halland.
Godparents: Probably some relatives or family friends.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2020, 03:31 PM
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I hope Prince Daniel is one of the Godparents and maybe Pss Kelly of S C G.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2020, 03:45 PM
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Looked up the full names of their sons:

Alexander Erik Hubertus Bertil
Alexander: personal preference?
Erik: Sofia's father
Hubertus: one of Carl Gustav's middle names
Bertil: CP's godfather and one of his middle names

Gabriel Carl Walther
Gabriel: personal preference?
Carl: first name of both Gabriel's father and paternal grandfather and CP's maternal grandfather (although he was known by his third name)
Walther: (third) name of CP's maternal grandfather


So, I'm guessing probably 3 names again with the first name based on personal preference and middle names more traditional and in reference to family members.

Boy: Ferdinand Andreas Gustaf
Ferdinand as the unexpected -but still rather traditional- first name (I also liked the idea of a prince Lars but that would be rather short in comparison to his brothers; both Lars and Ferdinand can be found in Sofia's family tree but only once). Andreas in reference to both CP's godfather and Sofia's great-grandfather. Also hoping for a Gustaf this time; so, all three are named after the king... If they'd like to be a little more original they could pick 'Folke' instead - but that would be two names with an F. I doubted about including Oskar (or Oscar) in the name as it would fit nicely with both sides of the family but as there already is a cousin Oscar, it's probably not the most likely pick.

Girl: Ingrid Renate Britt
In both cases the grandmother's second name; 'Britt' is also the name of Sofia's maternal grandmother; Estelle is already used Silvia, so I figured that Renate might be nice instead, although I wouldn't surprised if they use Silvia none the less) - as I've no idea what they might pick as a first name (I would never have guessed 'Gabriel' to go with 'Alexander') I decided to stick with Ingrid which is a name that can be found in the larger family tree of CP and of Sofia (with both Ingrid and Ingegerd - which to me look a lot a like but maybe that's not the way it is perceived in Sweden).

For those interested in the family names on Sofia's side of the family (information taken from link (website seems a bit sketchy but the information seems legit). Names that occur more than ones (in whichever spelling are in bold).

Paternal side:
Father: Erik Oscar

Paternal grandfather: Stif Ingvar
Paternal grandfather's parents: Erik Andreas Emanuel & Frida Kristina
Great-grandfather's parents: Anders Fredrik & Anna Charlotta
Great-grandmother's parents: Joel Fredrik & Johanna

Paternal grandmother: Ingrid Ann-Marie
Paternal grandmother's parents: Oskar Petrus & Lily Kristina
Great-grandfather's parents: Karl Ferdinand & Hedda Vilhelmina
Great-grandmother's parents: Carl August & Emma Helena

Maternal side:
Mother: Marie Britt

Maternal grandfather: Janne Herbert Ribbe
Maternal grandfather's parents: Lars Gotthard & Maria Elisabet
Great-grandfather's parents: Jan Persson & Anna
Great-grandmother's parents: Per Johan & Gum Anna Maria

Maternal grandmother: Britt Ingegerd
Maternal grandmother's parents: Per Gustaf & Grund Anna Maria
Great-grandfather's parents: Per Gabrielsson & Hilma Maria
Great-grandmother's parents: Grund Erik Johan & Knif Ida Maria
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2020, 04:45 PM
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I have mixed thoughts on the child being granted a duchy since the change of titles in was announced October 2019,I think a little sister might be nice Gabriel and Alexander.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2020, 08:12 PM
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Boy:
Edmund Folke Gustaf
Theodor Sigvard Philip
Folke Edmund Gustaf

Girl:
Ingrid Lilian Alice
Mathilda Silvia Marie
Lilian Ingrid Alice

I'm a bit back and forth on whether I think the baby will receive a heavy-weight dukedom or a new one will be created. I think the case can be made for either but considering CG's feelings towards CP, I'm leaning towards a historical duchy – regardless of whether it's a boy or a girl. I'm thinking Västerbotten or Halland.

For godparents, surely this will be Daniel's time!
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2020, 10:05 PM
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If a boy : Edmund Gustaf Stig Janne

If a girl : Lilian Silvia Marie

Not sure wether they will go for 4 or 3 names as Alexander has 4 and Gabriel has 3.

Dukedom : Norrbotten. I think they will opt for Northern Sweden but not Västerbotten. For King Carl XVI Gustaf, the Duke and Duchess of Västerbotten are very much still his parents, like he repeatedly has said that he still views himself as the Duke of Jämtland, even though a King doesn’t really have any need for a dukedom... The residential city of Norrbotten is the beautiful city of ”Luleå”. I am sure it would be most appreciated.

Should they go for a southern region i think Småland has a pretty good chance. Or perhaps Småland and Öland (where Solliden Palace is) as a double dukedom.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2020, 12:29 AM
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I doubt we will see anything like Bertil, Johan, Folke or such.

With their first two they chose to pick names with no family connection, simply ones they liked. And then honored the family in the middle names. I don't see them changing paths with their third child. Maddie and Chris did the same.

The siblings also have avoided repeating names. Except Carl which both Oscar and Gabriel have in their names.

I think we will get a more popular name first, and then some family names.


boys:

Theodore Edmund Janne
-Theodore is a popular name for Swedish babies, a long name like his brothers
-Edmund for the king's father who went by his last middle name in the family
-Janne for Sofia's paternal grandftaher

Elias Leopold Stif
-Elias as a popular baby name
-Leopold in honor of CP's godfather Prince Leopold of Bavaria
-Stif in honor of Sofia's grandfather

Matteo Edmund Lars
-popular name
-king's father
-Lars Sofia's grandfather


Daughter. I'd be shocked if there isn't a nod to both mothers in the name.

Lilly Renate Britt
-popular girls name, slight nod to Lilian but still her own name
-Renate for the queen as Estelle already has Silvia
-Britt for Sofia's mother's middle name

Olivia Marie Renate
-popular girls name
-Marie for Sofia's mother
-Renate for the queen

Linnea Silvia Marie
-popular name
-the queen (though I am not sure they will use her first)
-Sofia's mom

Freja Sibylla Marie
-popular name
-king's mother
-Sofia's mother
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2020, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Dukedom : Norrbotten. I think they will opt for Northern Sweden but not Västerbotten. For King Carl XVI Gustaf, the Duke and Duchess of Västerbotten are very much still his parents, like he repeatedly has said that he still views himself as the Duke of Jämtland, even though a King doesn’t really have any need for a dukedom... The residential city of Norrbotten is the beautiful city of ”Luleå”. I am sure it would be most appreciated.
If I remember correctly, there has never been a Duke of Norrbotten in Swedish History, but I prefer this dukedom to be reserved for Estelle's child if Carl XVI Gustaf can live to see his great-grandchild, so that the heir apparent to the heir apparent to the heir apparent can be the first duke/duchess of a Norrland province (as it has been so for Gustaf Adolf, Duke of Västerbotten and Carl Gustaf, Duke of Jämtland.). Prior to Gustaf Adolf, no dukedom in Norrland has ever been granted.

Still, I think that Härjedalen is a good choice for Grandchild No.8 if they opt for a dukedom in Northern Sweden, as this dukedom is quite a minor one compared to the others.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2020, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I'm a bit back and forth on whether I think the baby will receive a heavy-weight dukedom or a new one will be created. I think the case can be made for either but considering CG's feelings towards CP, I'm leaning towards a historical duchy – regardless of whether it's a boy or a girl. I'm thinking Västerbotten or Halland.
Södermanland is indeed a historical duchy, but after the dukedom of Skåne was first created in 1826, I get a feeling that the Dukedom of Södermanland is now instead granted to someone who plays the second fiddle to the Duke of Skåne (e.g. Wilhelm vs his great brother Gustaf VI Adolf, and now, Alexander vs his higher-in-line cousin Oscar).

As for Dalarna, it isn't as historical as it sounds, as it was first granted to August, Carl XIV Johan's youngest grandson, in 1831. The second Duke of Dalarna was Carl Johan, Gustaf V's fourth grandson in line to the throne, born 1916.

I think that Västmanland is quite historical, as it was first used for Gustavus II Adolphus and then for Erik, the third son of Gustaf V.
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