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  #1521  
Old 09-05-2007, 02:21 AM
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...is that he's popular in Australia
As popular as would be expected given his personage. He has not endeared himself to any great length and indeed most remain indifferent to 'Charlie'. Not in a negative way and neither is it anything to rave about. 'We' don't not like him but neither is he someone 'we' seem intent on hearing about on the whole.

His made trips and of course spent time in Australia tending to his own education but to say his 'popular' amongst Australian's wouldn't be, I think, an inaccruate account (respectively of course, Polly )

I'm not saying he isn't thought of nicely, just doesn't conjure up any real feeling amongst most.
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  #1522  
Old 09-05-2007, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Wonderfully amusing and titilating discussion, but the topic at hand is reallly a simple one--Will Charles Ever Reign?
Well, I think it is kind of a rhetorical question because the Monarchy is set up in such a way that when the Monarch dies, the next in line (the Heir, in this case the PoW) automatically assumes the throne. So, it would appear that Charles will inherit throne upon the death of his mother. William will then be declared the Prince of Wales, and will produce and heir. After King Charles dies, King William will ascend the throne. After William dies, his heir will ascend the throne, and so forth and so on. Unless Charles abdicates, and I just do not see him doing that, William will have to wait. And, frankly, WHY would William want to ascend to the throne at such a young age?
Actually we don't know if William will ever be Prince of Wales.

On his father's accession he will immediately become the Duke of Cornwall etc but... it is up to Charles to decide if, and when, he creates his son POW. With growing Welsh nationalism it is possible that the Welsh Assembly may advise the new king that they don't want a POW in which case Charles will be the last one.

The title Prince of Wales is NOT automatic unlike that of Duke of Cornwall.
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  #1523  
Old 09-05-2007, 07:06 AM
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I think Charles will reign. He will get king in the next 15 years. And he will be a great king of the United kingdom.
  #1524  
Old 09-05-2007, 09:47 AM
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It seems to me that there have been Princes of Wales since 1218; and now, they want to stop? I thought that Welsh nationalism is a desire to protect the national heritage of Wales. Part of that heritage is the Prince of Wales--who is involved in many different charities in Wales. I find it hard to believe that the country of Wales would do away with a centuries old title that works for their advantage.
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  #1525  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Originally Posted by kiltmaker
what if her Majesty decides that she would prefer William to be King? What a quandry!

It is not the Queen's decision to make. It's a birthright, specifically, Charles' birthright and then William's.
True true, I'd still like to see Andrew up there on the throne though
  #1526  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
It seems to me that there have been Princes of Wales since 1218; and now, they want to stop? I thought that Welsh nationalism is a desire to protect the national heritage of Wales. Part of that heritage is the Prince of Wales--who is involved in many different charities in Wales. I find it hard to believe that the country of Wales would do away with a centuries old title that works for their advantage.
Problem is that the English king Edward I. finally conquered Wales in 1282 and had the last Welsh prince of Wales tortured, maimed, drawn and quartered in front of a both fascinated and horrified crowd of Weshmen. In 1284 Wales became incorporated into England and in 1301 Edward created his eldest son Edward the first "Prince of Wales" of England. One can understand that still many Welshmen resent this title and its historical meaning, even if they like Charles personally.
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  #1527  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:43 AM
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EGADS! That is very brutal--but why now? Can Wales decide that they don't want to have the title used anymore? Is it a legal title? How would this work?
Personally, I think it is not wise to dispense with the title. Regardless of the history, it cannot be disagreed that more recent holders of the title have doen good with it, and future holders, in theory, would use it in such a way as to benefit Wales.

And, my Dear Kiltmaker, I too adore Andrew--but really, some of those "ladies" he runs around with as a future Queen Consort?? Tsk Tsk.......but, Andrew is a charmer. He'd have no trouble charming me, that's for sure.
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  #1528  
Old 09-05-2007, 03:29 PM
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The Assembly doesn't have the power to dispose of a title. They can symbolically vote in favour of its abolition, but it in no way binds the Sovereign. It may weigh in the decision process, but it has no legal effect.
  #1529  
Old 09-05-2007, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
The Assembly doesn't have the power to dispose of a title. They can symbolically vote in favour of its abolition, but it in no way binds the Sovereign. It may weigh in the decision process, but it has no legal effect.

However, if the Assembly did express a desire for the King not to use the title the King would be unwise, as a constitutional monarch bound to accept the advice of his ministers (including his Welsh minister) to go against that advice.

If the Welsh Assembly did tell Charles that they didn't want the Prince of Wales title to be given to an English prince (who has been seen actively supporting English sporting teams against Welsh ones for example) then Charles would really be bound to follow that advice, just as if the English/British PM advised him to do something.

I wouldn't be surprised if that scenario actually unfolded and that William never became Prince of Wales but spent his years as heir to the throne as Duke of Cornwall.
  #1530  
Old 09-05-2007, 08:09 PM
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That sounds like lot of "ifs" to me; are we just speculating here? Has this been mentioned regularly? Does the Welsh Assembly want to take the title away? I've been searching on and off all day and I can't find anything that says they do--that doesn't mean anything, but if it were a predominant situation, then there would be more information out there about it, wouldn't there?
Chrissy57, I am very curious now! Do you have any information you might be able to post about this brewing topic? I'm fascinated and must know more!
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  #1531  
Old 09-05-2007, 08:27 PM
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I sort of hope there's at least one more Princess of Wales. Having been born in Wales and raised there for a few years before moving to England, I know about the nationalism and some of the residual resentment against England for ancient injustices, coupled with modern feelings that the British parliament standardly rides roughshod over Welsh interests any time they don't coincide with English interests.

However, this would be bound to be reported in the press as some sort of victory from beyond the grave for Diana, that she was so popular and the royal family was so relatively worthless that they had to retire the Prince of Wales title because nobody would ever be able to measure up to Diana as Princess of Wales etc etc. And, honestly, after this latest episode over the memorial service, I'm getting a bit fed up with the way the press uses the memory of Diana to undermine the royal family.

It's also true that the Duke of Cornwall has a bunch of Scottish titles, and if the Scottish Assembly decided to get stroppy about it, would we be in danger of losing the Rothesay, Carrick, and Renfrew titles from the royal family too?
  #1532  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57 View Post
However, if the Assembly did express a desire for the King not to use the title the King would be unwise, as a constitutional monarch bound to accept the advice of his ministers (including his Welsh minister) to go against that advice.

If the Welsh Assembly did tell Charles that they didn't want the Prince of Wales title to be given to an English prince (who has been seen actively supporting English sporting teams against Welsh ones for example) then Charles would really be bound to follow that advice, just as if the English/British PM advised him to do something.
It may indeed be unwise for the King to do it, but it would still be his right. Welsh ministers cannot advise the monarch on the Principality of Wales.

The Welsh Assembly only has the ability to legislate regarding certain matters. The ministers can thus only advise the monarch on these matters. The Principality of Wales and Earldom of Chester do not fall into the scope granted by Parliament, and thus the view of Welsh ministers on them is legally void. It may very well be taken into consideration, and probably should, but it would not bind the King as advice from the Prime Minister would.
  #1533  
Old 09-06-2007, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
It may indeed be unwise for the King to do it, but it would still be his right. Welsh ministers cannot advise the monarch on the Principality of Wales.

The Welsh Assembly only has the ability to legislate regarding certain matters. The ministers can thus only advise the monarch on these matters. The Principality of Wales and Earldom of Chester do not fall into the scope granted by Parliament, and thus the view of Welsh ministers on them is legally void. It may very well be taken into consideration, and probably should, but it would not bind the King as advice from the Prime Minister would.

Do you really think that if the Welsh Assembly advised the King that he shouldn't do something to do with Wales that the King would go against that advice?

I don't.

He may legally be able to ignore it but I think it would be extremely unwise to do so.
  #1534  
Old 09-06-2007, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
That sounds like lot of "ifs" to me; are we just speculating here? Has this been mentioned regularly? Does the Welsh Assembly want to take the title away? I've been searching on and off all day and I can't find anything that says they do--that doesn't mean anything, but if it were a predominant situation, then there would be more information out there about it, wouldn't there?
Chrissy57, I am very curious now! Do you have any information you might be able to post about this brewing topic? I'm fascinated and must know more!

As far as I am aware there has been no open discussion of this particular issue but there certainly is growing Welsh nationalism and having a Prince of Wales who is actually English doesn't sit well with some Welsh.

On my last tour of Wales my TD said exactly that - that the Welsh people were getting more and more a desire to do away with open signs of being under 'English' control. We also went to Cornwall on that trip and the comment there was that there was a growing move for Cornwall to be seen as a separate entity. How strong that sentiment is I really don't know but there were far more Cornish flags flying everywhere rather than either English or British ones. Virtually every second home had some form of Cornish flag and only public buidlings had the British/English one. In Wales I don't think I saw many British flags as all but lots of Welsh ones. The Welsh people I spoke too made it clear to me that many of them would like even more independence from England/Britain but they aren't being as pushy about it, yet, as the Scottish.

In short my comments are based on personal observation, asking questions of people and information presented to us by a professional tour guide whose job is to present facts and opinions about local matters.
  #1535  
Old 09-06-2007, 08:59 AM
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We'll have to see what transpires in the future, but I doubt the Prime Minister would advise The King not to grant it again. Short of huge protests in the streets of Wales, the momentum politically wouldn't be there to deny an ancient title to the new heir.
  #1536  
Old 09-06-2007, 12:44 PM
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Who will most likely be the Major Players that day in Westminster Abbey?
  #1537  
Old 09-06-2007, 01:12 PM
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The King and the Archbishop of Canterbury.
  #1538  
Old 09-06-2007, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57 View Post
Do you really think that if the Welsh Assembly advised the King that he shouldn't do something to do with Wales that the King would go against that advice?

I don't.

He may legally be able to ignore it but I think it would be extremely unwise to do so.
Neither do I, unless the Prime Minister advised him to. He would then be bound to go against the advice of the Assembly. I doubt the PM would make motions either way, however, as this matter is typically reserved for the Sovereign's personal judgment.
  #1539  
Old 09-07-2007, 07:55 AM
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Posted by Chrissy:
As far as I am aware there has been no open discussion of this particular issue but there certainly is growing Welsh nationalism and having a Prince of Wales who is actually English doesn't sit well with some Welsh.

So, this discussion about ending the Prince of Wales title is based on "some Welsh" individuals? It is part of a movement that really doesn't have much momemtum, in fact, there is very little info at all out there about the Welsh Nationalism Movement. I don't really have an opinion about Welsh Nationalism--I actually think that the whole thing has merit, actually.but I find it difficult to fathom that "some Welsh" are going to change a hereditary title that has been used since the 1200's. As I have said, if I understand it, the Welsh Nationalism Movement was formed to preserve the history of Wales and once again, regardless of the title's history, the Prince of Wales is a valuable commodity in Wales. I cannot see Wales deliberately pushing that away. Perhaps the next Prince of Wales could be even more involved in Wales--perhaps if there is more of a presence there will be less talk of this.
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  #1540  
Old 09-07-2007, 07:57 AM
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The problem is, the Welsh have been convinced that they're a country and that they can throw their weight about like the Scots. Sadly they're mistaken and I very much doubt they'll ever be listened to on a matter such as this.
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