Andrea Casiraghi and Tatiana Santo Domingo expecting first child for 2013

[maria-olivia]

Princess Caroline was pregnant when she married Stefano C and the Prince of Hannover.

 

[Empress Merel]

I'm aware they are likely to have had sex however as a family who put out an image of being 'devout' they aren't doing a good job. It's clear they attend mass for annual important services and that it's because it's expected of them. If they were devoted Catholics then they wouldn't be having sex before marriage.

I'm aware they aren't 14, but it was my understanding that Catholics, like Protestants, believe that children should be born within wedlock.

And who says they practice their religion?

People need to lay off. It's 2012, they've been together for a long time, intend to marry anyway and by all means, this baby is going to be loved. Get over it.

 

[Roderick]

It might not be a big deal for most people, but for the Ruling family of an historically conservative and Catholic country like Monaco it's umseemly and strange.

Grace and Rainier did not have perfect private lives, but they worked very hard during their reign to wipe away the shady reputation of Monaco and to give it a sheen of class, elegance and respectability.

It has taken their descendants a very short time to erase it all, imo.

Why make a great show of being faithful Catholics who attend Mass and receive the Sacraments when you probably don't place that much importance on it? Just give up the pretense, is all I am saying.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Monaco seems to have again descended into `a sunny place for shady people` as once described by Somerset Maugham.

 

[fandesacs2003]

having a sexual relationship is up to the couple/partners, nowadays is not a big of a deal, who will know for 100% that they share a bed?, but when a child is conceived like they did, everybody will know thats out of wedlock. They're NOT common people, they are royalty who have to set a example to their people and even more as they try to show the people that they're devout catholics.

First of all, Andrea is not royalty, (at least for now) and Tatiana either.

Secondly, who decides for them that they have to be an example?
And an example for what?
Some people believe that they will not have sexual relations before marriage. It a respectable opinion. This part of people follows its own examples.
Some other people believe to free relations, out of marriage, respectable also. They have also their examples.
Did ever Andrea or Tatiana declared that they will marry virgins? If yes, I agree that they are hypocrits. If not, they are free to live their lifes, and we are not allowed to judge them, and we do not have the right to take them as examples of our own convictions, without asking their opinion.
If anyone of the Monaco's family, (so accused to be a bad example...), were Priest or Nuns, YES I agree they are lying. But they are not, noone of them.

And who says they practice their religion?

People need to lay off. It's 2012, they've been together for a long time, intend to marry anyway and by all means, this baby is going to be loved. Get over it.

PERFECTLY said!!

And going to the mass for a funeral or a national day, it does not means that you are practicing a religion...

 

[Moonmaiden23]

[And going to the mass for a funeral or a national day, it does not means that you are practicing a religion] quote

It does indeed mean that, if you actually take the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, which the Grimaldis and Casiraghis all do when they go to Mass and which the Scriptures and the Church have always taught that you must do only in a state of absolute grace...otherwise you are guilty of blasphemy.

The family's Coat of Arms actually displays two Catholic monks for crying out loud!

Sorry if this is distateful to some people but these are facts, not opinions.

I don't know what is in Tatiana and Andrea's hearts. I am not speculating on the state of their souls or on their relationships with God. But for the sake of an innocent child and for the future of the dynasty I hope they can give this baby what he/she deserves...a loving and stable home within the confines of a happy marrage.

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

Lovely suggestion Fürstin but Pierre is already Ranier Stefano,
Andrea himself is also Albert Pierre. This in case the baby is a boy. If the baby turns out to be a girl, well, Charlotte is named after her great grandmother, P. Caroline is also named Louise Marguerite after her two grandmothers... Difficult... The baby could be named Henri as Prince Ranier or Patricia like princess Grace, for example...
By the way, love the hippy name: HSH Princess Flower...

Sounds really awesome
I´m just so annoyed by people who call them trashy and tacky. Omg, a couple who is together for 7 years wil have a baby and marry. Le choc!
I wish Andrea and Tatiana all the best luck

 

[NGalitzine]

The family's Coat of Arms actually displays two Catholic monks for crying out loud!

Are they really monks or do they represent Francois Grimaldi and his soldiers who disguised themselves as monks when they attacked Le Rocher and took over Monaco.

In general though I do agree with your view. Unless there is a good reason not to marry (like an unstable relationship) I do think children, especially those in a royal family, should be born in lawful wedlock. While it may be common and perhaps even fashionable these days to have children out of wedlock that does not mean at some future point in the childs life it will not be looked down on. The pendulum does tend to swing back and forth and I see no reason to start a childs life with something that could be a mark against them in the future and which can so easily be remedied by a quick and private civil marriage.

 

[EIIR]

Quite right. The current crop of Grimaldi's just dont seem to be able to have stable lasting marriages and children within the sanctity of marriage.

Whilst it is not in any way scandalous these days, it just seems odd that they just appear no different from trailer park trash!

I have to agree, Muriel. What type of sex education are these people receiving (or not receiving) that they have so many children born outside wedlock? The Catholic thing doesn't bother me as history has shown that for the right price the Vatican will smooth things over for Catholics who are super wealthy public figures.

I've felt for a long time that the Princely family of Monaco has been tarnished. I mean, last years wedding was not just an obviously insincere pantomime, it was also pretty vulgar with the awful cake, the limos sponsored by Lexus, etc. etc. They just seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Are they really monks or do they represent Francois Grimaldi and his soldiers who disguised themselves as monks when they attacked Le Rocher and took over Monaco.

In general though I do agree with your view. Unless there is a good reason not to marry (like an unstable relationship) I do think children, especially those in a royal family, should be born in lawful wedlock. While it may be common and perhaps even fashionable these days to have children out of wedlock that does not mean at some future point in the childs life it will not be looked down on. The pendulum does tend to swing back and forth and I see no reason to start a childs life with something that could be a mark against them in the future and which can so easily be remedied by a quick and private civil marriage.

The highlighted areas two words pretty much say it all for me.

I think what bothers me about the Grimaldis is that out-of-wedlock births are not the exception....they seem to be the rule with those folks.

An occasional slip up is understandable. People are only human and it happens in the most devout families...look at the Luxembourg Grand Ducal family.

Nobody is expecting even an historically Catholic family to live like candidates for sainthood. But these people seem to revel in appearing as common and as louche as they can get away with...and it makes me wonder what is really going on sometimes.

 

[camelot23ca]

The highlighted areas two words pretty much say it all for me.

I think what bothers me about the Grimaldis is that out-of-wedlock births are not the exception....they seem to be the rule with those folks.

An occasional slip up is understandable. People are only human and it happens in the most devout families...look at the Luxembourg Grand Ducal family.

Nobody is expecting even an historically Catholic family to live like candidates for sainthood. But these people seem to revel in appearing as common and as louche as they can get away with...and it makes me wonder what is really going on sometimes.

The puzzling part to me is that there's no compelling reason for them not to be married prior to the birth of the baby, (unless there's something going on we don't know about). It's not like they're a couple of 17 year olds or the pregnancy is the result of a chance encounter between two near strangers. Andrea and Tatiana are two adults in their late 20s who have been together forever, and who plan to marry anyway.
The idea that no one cares about this sort of thing anymore is wrong. It may not be the huge stigma it once was but plenty of people, including people in the social circles the Casiraghi baby will presumably move in, still consider it at least somewhat important that a child be born to married parents.

 

[Biri]

Congrats, congrats, CONGRATS!

 

[kathia_sophia]

First of all, Andrea is not royalty, (at least for now) and Tatiana either.

Secondly, who decides for them that they have to be an example?
And an example for what?
Some people believe that they will not have sexual relations before marriage. It a respectable opinion. This part of people follows its own examples.
Some other people believe to free relations, out of marriage, respectable also. They have also their examples.
Did ever Andrea or Tatiana declared that they will marry virgins? If yes, I agree that they are hypocrits. If not, they are free to live their lifes, and we are not allowed to judge them, and we do not have the right to take them as examples of our own convictions, without asking their opinion.
If anyone of the Monaco's family, (so accused to be a bad example...), were Priest or Nuns, YES I agree they are lying. But they are not, noone of them.

first, i was speaking about the Monaco royal family in general, not focusing only on Tatiana and Andrea.
second, did i say some disrespectable opinion? i was even defending everyone choices by saying "having a sexual relationship is up to the couple/partners".
third, Andrea might not have a royal title, but he belongs to the royal family and thus is in line to the throne, so yes, he is part of royalty!
fourth and last, everyone in the public eye can be a good or a bad example in the way they behave themselves.

 

[Empress Merel]

[And going to the mass for a funeral or a national day, it does not means that you are practicing a religion] quote

It does indeed mean that, if you actually take the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, which the Grimaldis and Casiraghis all do when they go to Mass and which the Scriptures and the Church have always taught that you must do only in a state of absolute grace...otherwise you are guilty of blasphemy.

The family's Coat of Arms actually displays two Catholic monks for crying out loud!

Sorry if this is distateful to some people but these are facts, not opinions.

I don't know what is in Tatiana and Andrea's hearts. I am not speculating on the state of their souls or on their relationships with God. But for the sake of an innocent child and for the future of the dynasty I hope they can give this baby what he/she deserves...a loving and stable home within the confines of a happy marrage.

So why is there even a discussion? Religion and whetever or not the parents were married at the time of the birth is not relevant at all. Not anymore. We're not living in the 1950's for crying out loud.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

There is a discussion Empress Merel, because this is a Discussion Board.

Religion might not be relevant for you and that is okay. But for some of us it is.

Royalty, religion and the Church have always been linked closely from the very beginning. Accept it or not, it's simply the way it is.

 

[NGalitzine]

So why is there even a discussion? Religion and whetever or not the parents were married at the time of the birth is not relevant at all. Not anymore. We're not living in the 1950's for crying out loud.

\
Obviously it is still relevant or we would not be having the discussion. One does not need to be living in the 1950s to know there is still for many people a right way and a wrong way of doing things.
Personally I believe it is a parents responsibility to make sure their child has the fewest possible impediments in life.

 

[EIIR]

I agree with NGalitzine as regards their choosing to get married after the baby is born. These people are not short of cash; they don't have to save up for a few years to get married as many couples do. They could have a low-key wedding, both civil and religious, planned in a few short months given their financial firepower.

I have nothing against unmarried couples having children. I just would've thought that two people who intend to get married at some stage anyway upon hearing that they're expecting would want to do it before the child's arrival.

 

[Empress Merel]

There is a discussion Empress Merel, because this is a Discussion Board.

Religion might not be relevant for you and that is okay. But for some of us it is.

Royalty, religion and the Church have always been linked closely from the very beginning. Accept it or not, it's simply the way it is.

Whetever it's relevant to you does not mean it's relevant to the couple actually having the baby.

 

[blauerengel]

The puzzling part to me is that there's no compelling reason for them not to be married prior to the birth of the baby, (unless there's something going on we don't know about). It's not like they're a couple of 17 year olds or the pregnancy is the result of a chance encounter between two near strangers. Andrea and Tatiana are two adults in their late 20s who have been together forever, and who plan to marry anyway.
The idea that no one cares about this sort of thing anymore is wrong. It may not be the huge stigma it once was but plenty of people, including people in the social circles the Casiraghi baby will presumably move in, still consider it at least somewhat important that a child be born to married parents.

I fully agree with you,it is a matter of respecting traditions and a question of form to be married before having children.
Nobody expects young couples to live celibate nowadays,it is great that thanks to modern birth planning methods people can live together,get to know each other well and build a strong relationship before they decide to raise a family.
Anyhow,a baby is always a blessing to a young couple and I wish them all the best luck for their future!The first pregnancy is very special and I hope they can enjoy and appreciate it as much as possible.

 

[NGalitzine]

Whetever it's relevant to you does not mean it's relevant to the couple actually having the baby.

Well as far as I can tell neither one of them is taking part in the discussion on this forum.

 

[blauerengel]

That´s right,it is just an exchange of ideas about social forms and no reason to get upset.If a royal ever stumbles over TRF I hope they have a good portion of humour and laugh about our petty discussions.Especially the fashion-section which dissects every little detail of their appearance and turns quite acrimonius sometimes....

 

[rosana]

having a sexual relationship is up to the couple/partners, nowadays is not a big of a deal, who will know for 100% that they share a bed?, but when a child is conceived like they did, everybody will know thats out of wedlock. They're NOT common people, they are royalty who have to set a example to their people and even more as they try to show the people that they're devout catholics.

I don´t know if they wanted a child or if it just "happened", it´s good news anyway. But, are you aware that even with contraceptive methods accidents happen? What would you have expected, an abortion? Andrea is not a prince, he doesn´t have to set any example. We are not living in the 19´s century when living with your partner or sex were still taboo, as if they had married virgin!!

 

[Meraude]

Andrea is not a prince, he doesn´t have to set any example.

As long as Albert doesn't have a child to inherit the throne, Andrea is the second in line for the throne and the child will be the third in line when the parents marry. If it would happen that the child one day will become prince/princess of Monaco and ruler, the fact that s/he was born before the parents were married could affect Monaco. For example, we all assume that the Catholic church will be/become more lenient in moral issues, but there could as well be a shift towards more strict morals in the future, and then it could be difficult to have a ruler of a Catholic country who was born out of wedlock, even if the parents married later on. Another question is how would the monarchs in other countries where the rules are more stringent about children born out of wedlock being out of the line of succession consider a fellow monarch who is not being "legitimate" according to the law in their country.

 

[titiromi]

Congrats !!! A child is always a blessing

 

[crm2317]

It comes down to a difference of opinion which is expected and should be acceptable on these sorts of boards.

I was commenting on the Grimaldi family in general, not focusing on Andrea in particular. Albert and his siblings attend mass for public occasions and receive the sacrament, implying they are following a catholic life and the life ideas set out in the bible. However all have had children conceived outside wedlock and one has been divorced and now another out of wedlock child is to be born into the family. I just think its sad that with other royal families it would be a scandal but with this family it is something of the norm.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I do feel for the memory of Grace and Ranier who indeed tried to elevate Monaco and did so with very hard work.
However, they are the parents of these children for whom, duty has not been as paramont as appearing fashionable.

 

[HRHHermione]

I do feel for the memory of Grace and Ranier who indeed tried to elevate Monaco and did so with very hard work.
However, they are the parents of these children for whom, duty has not been as paramont as appearing fashionable.

Grace and Ranier had their fair share of scandal and marital problems.

 

[Roderick]

Grace and Ranier had their fair share of scandal and marital problems.

I do not recall scandal regarding Grace and Rainier. Perhaps you could elaborate on this. Unsubstantiated gossip is not `scandal`.

 

[HRHHermione]

I do not recall scandal regarding Grace and Rainier. Perhaps you could elaborate on this. Unsubstantiated gossip is not `scandal`.

All the old stuff- that each of them had extramarital affairs, that they lived virtually separate lives towards the end of Grace's life.

Who knows how much is true? I was just pointing out that somehow I think the princely family will survive one more baby born a little early.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

It comes down to a difference of opinion which is expected and should be acceptable on these sorts of boards.

I was commenting on the Grimaldi family in general, not focusing on Andrea in particular. Albert and his siblings attend mass for public occasions and receive the sacrament, implying they are following a catholic life and the life ideas set out in the bible. However all have had children conceived outside wedlock and one has been divorced and now another out of wedlock child is to be born into the family. I just think its sad that with other royal families it would be a scandal but with this family it is something of the norm.

I think we should remember the old rule of thumb; "There are three types of princesses: Princesses by birth, Princesses by marriage and Princesses of Monaco." Just sayin'.

 

[crm2317]

I think we should remember the old rule of thumb; "There are three types of princesses: Princesses by birth, Princesses by marriage and Princesses of Monaco." Just sayin'.

So true! They live by different rules than any other monarchy!