Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[Grandma828]

Catholic rules have changed. At. one time children were confirmed at age 9. Now it is about 10th or 11th grade. Of my 4 sons, 2 have confirmation sponsors, 2 do not..It can vary from one area to another.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.

As a foreign national who is not a permanent resident of the United States, Harry is unlikely to have any US document. If at any point he is required to apply for a visa or electronic travel authorization to enter the US, he will be required to write down his name exactly as it appears in his British passport, which most likely also includes his royal title and style.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.

There is a difference between social settings and legal settings.

Harry legally would be recognized as Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor were he to be required to fill out legal paperwork in the US (as William was recognized similarly when he entered into a lawsuit in France). However, socially if he is in the US he is recognized as Prince Henry of Wales.

Meghan will legally remain Rachel Meghan Markle in the US after her marriage, even if she is socially recognized as Princess Henry of Wales, or the feminine version of whatever title Harry is given. Thus, her passport to enter the US will say Rachel Meghan Markle, but her place card at a White House state dinner would name her as HRH The Duchess of Wherever.

Where Meghan’s legal name gets particularly tricky is going to be on British legal forms (ie her driver’s license or the birth registry for future children) - do they go with Rachel Meghan Markle (like her US forms), Rachel Meghan, HRH The Duchess of Wherever (like Kate on her children’s birth registries), or some combination of the two? And will that change after she becomes a British citizen?

What will also be interesting to see is if she changes her legal name in the US to reflect her marriage - becoming Rachel Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor - or if she stays Rachel Meghan Markle.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Ish

Harry legally would be recognized as Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor were he to be required to fill out legal paperwork in the US (as William was recognized similarly when he entered into a lawsuit in France).

Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor and, even if there were, it would be another person and Harry could not apply for any travel documents under that name.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.

Sorry, I missed the bit were we were talking about the theoretical immigration of Prince Harry - I thought we were talking more general things like lawsuits and the such, that would have him still remaining a British resident. You’re right, if he were to immigrate to the US, his immigration paperwork would care about his name on his British passport, which in all likelihood is Prince Henry Charles Albert David of Wales (right now).

I’m 50/50 on whether or not I think Meghan will change her legal name in the US; on the one hand it’s a hassle and not really necessary, especially as she won’t be using her legal name for the most part. On the other hand, I believe name changes are public record, and there might be backlash if the press report that she hasn’t changed her name. And let’s be honest - there is no way the DM wouldn’t look into that.

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Ish

...
What will also be interesting to see is if she changes her legal name in the US to reflect her marriage - becoming Rachel Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor - or if she stays Rachel Meghan Markle.

I brought the Rachel thing up months ago and people universally dismissed the thought - as she has been Meghan since childhood.

I'd guess that if she does a US name change, she also drops the Rachel. And if she has the choice in the UK, the Rachel may disappear there as well.

[Ish]

I don’t know that she would necessarily drop the name - she’s always gone by Meghan, sure, but that doesn’t mean she dislikes it or would want to change her given names. I have a grandmother who went by her middle name from birth, yet her first name was still very much a part of her identity, and would have never considered changing her name to re-order her names or drop her first name.

I expect we’ll see the name Rachel Meghan pop up in her vows and when the births of any children are registered, but not much outside of that. Socially she’ll continue to be Meghan, and will sign cards, guest books, etc, as Meghan - this has basically been indicated as the case by her being referred to as Ms Meghan Markle in the CC and by KP.

[Pranter]

I've only ever used my middle name my whole life. It's how my parents called me from day one...my first name is only used for legal documents and in business contexts.



LaRae

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Ish

I don’t know that she would necessarily drop the name - she’s always gone by Meghan, sure, but that doesn’t mean she dislikes it or would want to change her given names. I have a grandmother who went by her middle name from birth, yet her first name was still very much a part of her identity, and would have never considered changing her name to re-order her names or drop her first name.

I expect we’ll see the name Rachel Meghan pop up in her vows and when the births of any children are registered, but not much outside of that. Socially she’ll continue to be Meghan, and will sign cards, guest books, etc, as Meghan - this has basically been indicated as the case by her being referred to as Ms Meghan Markle in the CC and by KP.

She has not yet appeared in the CC.

She has appeared once in the FE - for the radio station - but not for the other visits she has made with Harry.

She won't appear in the CC until she is officially a royal - on her wedding day. They have stopped putting her in the FE - no doubt on instructions from above - as she isn't yet royal.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I know Kate was confirmed before she and William married, but I don't think they announced when it occurred. I don't see why Meghan's would be announced. We were told it would happen, I see no reason to doubt that.

Originally Posted by Denville

I believe that it was announced about kate, either that she was preparing for confirmation or that she'd been confirmed. Why shouldn't it? Its nothing that has to be kept secret.

That's exactly what I wrote--it was announced that Kate was going to be confirmed before the wedding but we didn't get an announcement that it had happened. It has been announced that Meghan will be confirmed before the wedding, I don't expect an announcement when it has occurs.

[Curbside]

Sponsors are kind of like godparents--often the sponsor is also the godparent. The sponsor is also partly responsible for the confirmed person's spiritual upbringing.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Denville

well its not likely to be a BIG public thing but I see no reason why it should not be announced. they have made it public that she's receiving instruction in the Anglican faith and that she's going to be received intot it.. so it is harldy a private matter.

Yes, it would be nice to hear that she had been baptised and confirmed. I was surprised that they released the information that she was being baptised as well. Many children are "Christened", you know, getting baby done. It's an excuse for the entire family to get together and celebrate.

Meghan would only have her mother or possibly her father too but it is easy to see they brought her up to be curious but didn't indulge in any formal rites on her behalf, leaving her to make her own spiritual journey. That makes this a very bid deal.

[Osipi]

When we're talking about legal papers between the UK and the USA for Harry and Meghan, a good thing to keep in mind too is that its their *names* that are put on legal documents such a Rachel Meghan Markle.

When it comes to the HRH or Duchess of X. it would only be reflected on UK passports and legal papers. When we think about it, one thing that is rarely on any country's legal work (other than the UK) is titles and styles. I don't think there's anywhere I've seen in the US where things like "Mr." "Mrs." "Ms." "Dr.", "Reverend" or "Professor" are denoted on the document.

Should Harry ever be in a situation anywhere where he would need a legal surname, it would be Mountbatten-Windsor. Place designations such as "of Wales" are unique to the UK.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

I brought the Rachel thing up months ago and people universally dismissed the thought - as she has been Meghan since childhood.

I'd guess that if she does a US name change, she also drops the Rachel. And if she has the choice in the UK, the Rachel may disappear there as well.

I don’t think she’ll drop Rachel as she’s had chances to do so in the past. She has always been known as Meghan, but her legal first name has always been Rachel. Meghan did legally change her last name to Engleson after she married Trevor, but changed it back to Markle after the divorce. Both times she kept Rachel as her first name.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by moby

Consular officers would say, nope, she retains the name she has in her birth certificate in whatever situation until she marries in foreign country X that requires or allows her to change her last name/titles to that of her husband's. After marriage, she may use her husband's surname or titles and her marriage certificate, executed in X country, will be basis of that name change. This is regardless of her changing nationalities.

Thanks! I didn't know that, so the rules of the place where you marry are more important than the rules of your country of citizenship. So, she will officially change her name upon marriage (according to British custom or law) or is a separate step required; if so, why wouldn't that be reflected on her US paperwork as that is recognized as her new legal name?

And how did that work when she married in Jamaica, as she did change her name, so was that based on Jamaican law and not on US law?

Thanks again for your clarification.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor and, even if there were, it would be another person and Harry could not apply for any travel documents under that name.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.

She changed her name the first time she got married. However, this time she wouldn't be able to change it to the title she is actually using, so that makes it even more of a hassle for little added value.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Thanks! I didn't know that, so the rules of the place where you marry are more important than the rules of your country of citizenship. So, she will officially change her name upon marriage (according to British custom or law) or is a separate step required; if so, why wouldn't that be reflected on her US paperwork as that is recognized as her new legal name?

And how did that work when she married in Jamaica, as she did change her name, so was that based on Jamaican law and not on US law?

Thanks again for your clarification.

I believe it has more to do with the country of residence, as long as they recognize the marriage of course. We see this particularly come into play with divorces. Some tries to file in a country/state with laws that are more favorable to them as long as they can justify jurisdiction, but usually it’s where the residence is. When she married Trevor, it was US law that would govern as she returned to US. The only difference here is that Britain recognizes titles whereas US doesn’t. If she really wanted, US wouldn’t stop her from changing her last name to Duchess of X as her last name (anyone can go through the legal process of changing their name at court house). But it’ll only be as last name rather than title.

[MARG]

Actually, the whole question of her new surname really affects both Harry and Megan. At present Harry is "Wales" but that has to change as his father is Prince of Wales now, but when he becomes King, William will be Prince of Wales so I shall be interested to see what title his grandmother gifts him if any.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by MARG

Actually, the whole question of her new surname really affects both Harry and Megan. At present Harry is "Wales" but that has to change as his father is Prince of Wales now, but when he becomes King, William will be Prince of Wales so I shall be interested to see what title his grandmother gifts him if any.

When he gets married and is given a dukedom, Harry will cease to be referred to as "of Wales". His long title will be:

HRH Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx], Earl of [xxx], Baron [xxx] KCVO .

On a daily basis, however, he will be referred to in short as "HRH The Duke of [xxx]", as his brother is today. His name on British documents will probably be simply "His Royal Highness Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx]" as, again, his brother was named on Prince George's birth certificate.

When Charles becomes King, Harry's long title won't change actuallly, except for the fact that, as a son of the sovereign, I believe he will be styled instead, see link :


HRH The Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx], Earl of [xxx], Baron [xxx], KCVO .

When he becomes King, Charles is also likely to make Harry a Knight of the Garter (KG) and perhaps upgrade him to Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order (GCVO), but that remains to be seen.

[Pranter]

In turn after Charles is King, will their wives be THE Princess Henry x x x, THE Princess William x x x ?


LaRae