The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #621  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:13 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Green Bay, United States
Posts: 617
Catholic rules have changed. At. one time children were confirmed at age 9. Now it is about 10th or 11th grade. Of my 4 sons, 2 have confirmation sponsors, 2 do not..It can vary from one area to another.
__________________

  #622  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:31 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.
As a foreign national who is not a permanent resident of the United States, Harry is unlikely to have any US document. If at any point he is required to apply for a visa or electronic travel authorization to enter the US, he will be required to write down his name exactly as it appears in his British passport, which most likely also includes his royal title and style.
__________________

  #623  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:46 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.

There is a difference between social settings and legal settings.

Harry legally would be recognized as Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor were he to be required to fill out legal paperwork in the US (as William was recognized similarly when he entered into a lawsuit in France). However, socially if he is in the US he is recognized as Prince Henry of Wales.

Meghan will legally remain Rachel Meghan Markle in the US after her marriage, even if she is socially recognized as Princess Henry of Wales, or the feminine version of whatever title Harry is given. Thus, her passport to enter the US will say Rachel Meghan Markle, but her place card at a White House state dinner would name her as HRH The Duchess of Wherever.

Where Meghan’s legal name gets particularly tricky is going to be on British legal forms (ie her driver’s license or the birth registry for future children) - do they go with Rachel Meghan Markle (like her US forms), Rachel Meghan, HRH The Duchess of Wherever (like Kate on her children’s birth registries), or some combination of the two? And will that change after she becomes a British citizen?

What will also be interesting to see is if she changes her legal name in the US to reflect her marriage - becoming Rachel Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor - or if she stays Rachel Meghan Markle.
  #624  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:58 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Harry legally would be recognized as Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor were he to be required to fill out legal paperwork in the US (as William was recognized similarly when he entered into a lawsuit in France).
Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor and, even if there were, it would be another person and Harry could not apply for any travel documents under that name.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.
  #625  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:09 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.

Sorry, I missed the bit were we were talking about the theoretical immigration of Prince Harry - I thought we were talking more general things like lawsuits and the such, that would have him still remaining a British resident. You’re right, if he were to immigrate to the US, his immigration paperwork would care about his name on his British passport, which in all likelihood is Prince Henry Charles Albert David of Wales (right now).

I’m 50/50 on whether or not I think Meghan will change her legal name in the US; on the one hand it’s a hassle and not really necessary, especially as she won’t be using her legal name for the most part. On the other hand, I believe name changes are public record, and there might be backlash if the press report that she hasn’t changed her name. And let’s be honest - there is no way the DM wouldn’t look into that.
  #626  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:17 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
...
What will also be interesting to see is if she changes her legal name in the US to reflect her marriage - becoming Rachel Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor - or if she stays Rachel Meghan Markle.
I brought the Rachel thing up months ago and people universally dismissed the thought - as she has been Meghan since childhood.

I'd guess that if she does a US name change, she also drops the Rachel. And if she has the choice in the UK, the Rachel may disappear there as well.
__________________
"And the tabloid press will be a pain in the ass, as usual." - Royal Norway
  #627  
Old 02-26-2018, 06:50 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,112
I don’t know that she would necessarily drop the name - she’s always gone by Meghan, sure, but that doesn’t mean she dislikes it or would want to change her given names. I have a grandmother who went by her middle name from birth, yet her first name was still very much a part of her identity, and would have never considered changing her name to re-order her names or drop her first name.

I expect we’ll see the name Rachel Meghan pop up in her vows and when the births of any children are registered, but not much outside of that. Socially she’ll continue to be Meghan, and will sign cards, guest books, etc, as Meghan - this has basically been indicated as the case by her being referred to as Ms Meghan Markle in the CC and by KP.
  #628  
Old 02-26-2018, 06:54 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,310
I've only ever used my middle name my whole life. It's how my parents called me from day one...my first name is only used for legal documents and in business contexts.



LaRae
  #629  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:31 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I don’t know that she would necessarily drop the name - she’s always gone by Meghan, sure, but that doesn’t mean she dislikes it or would want to change her given names. I have a grandmother who went by her middle name from birth, yet her first name was still very much a part of her identity, and would have never considered changing her name to re-order her names or drop her first name.

I expect we’ll see the name Rachel Meghan pop up in her vows and when the births of any children are registered, but not much outside of that. Socially she’ll continue to be Meghan, and will sign cards, guest books, etc, as Meghan - this has basically been indicated as the case by her being referred to as Ms Meghan Markle in the CC and by KP.
She has not yet appeared in the CC.

She has appeared once in the FE - for the radio station - but not for the other visits she has made with Harry.

She won't appear in the CC until she is officially a royal - on her wedding day. They have stopped putting her in the FE - no doubt on instructions from above - as she isn't yet royal.
  #630  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:46 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I know Kate was confirmed before she and William married, but I don't think they announced when it occurred. I don't see why Meghan's would be announced. We were told it would happen, I see no reason to doubt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I believe that it was announced about kate, either that she was preparing for confirmation or that she'd been confirmed. Why shouldn't it? Its nothing that has to be kept secret.
That's exactly what I wrote--it was announced that Kate was going to be confirmed before the wedding but we didn't get an announcement that it had happened. It has been announced that Meghan will be confirmed before the wedding, I don't expect an announcement when it has occurs.
  #631  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:55 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lewisville, United States
Posts: 837
Sponsors are kind of like godparents--often the sponsor is also the godparent. The sponsor is also partly responsible for the confirmed person's spiritual upbringing.
  #632  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:31 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well its not likely to be a BIG public thing but I see no reason why it should not be announced. they have made it public that she's receiving instruction in the Anglican faith and that she's going to be received intot it.. so it is harldy a private matter.
Yes, it would be nice to hear that she had been baptised and confirmed. I was surprised that they released the information that she was being baptised as well. Many children are "Christened", you know, getting baby done. It's an excuse for the entire family to get together and celebrate.

Meghan would only have her mother or possibly her father too but it is easy to see they brought her up to be curious but didn't indulge in any formal rites on her behalf, leaving her to make her own spiritual journey. That makes this a very bid deal.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
  #633  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:05 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,144
When we're talking about legal papers between the UK and the USA for Harry and Meghan, a good thing to keep in mind too is that its their *names* that are put on legal documents such a Rachel Meghan Markle.

When it comes to the HRH or Duchess of X. it would only be reflected on UK passports and legal papers. When we think about it, one thing that is rarely on any country's legal work (other than the UK) is titles and styles. I don't think there's anywhere I've seen in the US where things like "Mr." "Mrs." "Ms." "Dr.", "Reverend" or "Professor" are denoted on the document.

Should Harry ever be in a situation anywhere where he would need a legal surname, it would be Mountbatten-Windsor. Place designations such as "of Wales" are unique to the UK.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #634  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:27 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I brought the Rachel thing up months ago and people universally dismissed the thought - as she has been Meghan since childhood.

I'd guess that if she does a US name change, she also drops the Rachel. And if she has the choice in the UK, the Rachel may disappear there as well.
I don’t think she’ll drop Rachel as she’s had chances to do so in the past. She has always been known as Meghan, but her legal first name has always been Rachel. Meghan did legally change her last name to Engleson after she married Trevor, but changed it back to Markle after the divorce. Both times she kept Rachel as her first name.
  #635  
Old 02-26-2018, 10:11 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 5,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by moby View Post


Consular officers would say, nope, she retains the name she has in her birth certificate in whatever situation until she marries in foreign country X that requires or allows her to change her last name/titles to that of her husband's. After marriage, she may use her husband's surname or titles and her marriage certificate, executed in X country, will be basis of that name change. This is regardless of her changing nationalities.
Thanks! I didn't know that, so the rules of the place where you marry are more important than the rules of your country of citizenship. So, she will officially change her name upon marriage (according to British custom or law) or is a separate step required; if so, why wouldn't that be reflected on her US paperwork as that is recognized as her new legal name?

And how did that work when she married in Jamaica, as she did change her name, so was that based on Jamaican law and not on US law?

Thanks again for your clarification.
  #636  
Old 02-26-2018, 10:15 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 5,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Not necessarily. As I said, if Harry is ever required to fill out any US immigration paperwork, like an application for a visa or ETA for example, he will have to write down his name as it appears in his British passport. Most likely, there is no British passport issued in the name of a Mr Henry Mountbatten-Windsor and, even if there were, it would be another person and Harry could not apply for any travel documents under that name.

As for Rachel, I don't see a reason why she would go through the trouble of changing her last name in her US documents. Many women don't do it anyway these days after they get married.
She changed her name the first time she got married. However, this time she wouldn't be able to change it to the title she is actually using, so that makes it even more of a hassle for little added value.
  #637  
Old 02-26-2018, 11:14 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Thanks! I didn't know that, so the rules of the place where you marry are more important than the rules of your country of citizenship. So, she will officially change her name upon marriage (according to British custom or law) or is a separate step required; if so, why wouldn't that be reflected on her US paperwork as that is recognized as her new legal name?

And how did that work when she married in Jamaica, as she did change her name, so was that based on Jamaican law and not on US law?

Thanks again for your clarification.
I believe it has more to do with the country of residence, as long as they recognize the marriage of course. We see this particularly come into play with divorces. Some tries to file in a country/state with laws that are more favorable to them as long as they can justify jurisdiction, but usually it’s where the residence is. When she married Trevor, it was US law that would govern as she returned to US. The only difference here is that Britain recognizes titles whereas US doesn’t. If she really wanted, US wouldn’t stop her from changing her last name to Duchess of X as her last name (anyone can go through the legal process of changing their name at court house). But it’ll only be as last name rather than title.
  #638  
Old 02-27-2018, 05:40 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,734
Actually, the whole question of her new surname really affects both Harry and Megan. At present Harry is "Wales" but that has to change as his father is Prince of Wales now, but when he becomes King, William will be Prince of Wales so I shall be interested to see what title his grandmother gifts him if any.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
  #639  
Old 02-27-2018, 07:54 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Actually, the whole question of her new surname really affects both Harry and Megan. At present Harry is "Wales" but that has to change as his father is Prince of Wales now, but when he becomes King, William will be Prince of Wales so I shall be interested to see what title his grandmother gifts him if any.

When he gets married and is given a dukedom, Harry will cease to be referred to as "of Wales". His long title will be:

HRH Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx], Earl of [xxx], Baron [xxx] KCVO .

On a daily basis, however, he will be referred to in short as "HRH The Duke of [xxx]", as his brother is today. His name on British documents will probably be simply "His Royal Highness Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx]" as, again, his brother was named on Prince George's birth certificate.

When Charles becomes King, Harry's long title won't change actuallly, except for the fact that, as a son of the sovereign, I believe he will be styled instead, see link :


HRH The Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of [xxx], Earl of [xxx], Baron [xxx], KCVO .

When he becomes King, Charles is also likely to make Harry a Knight of the Garter (KG) and perhaps upgrade him to Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order (GCVO), but that remains to be seen.
  #640  
Old 02-27-2018, 08:07 AM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,310
In turn after Charles is King, will their wives be THE Princess Henry x x x, THE Princess William x x x ?


LaRae
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meghan Markle: Family and Background - November 2017-May 2018 soapstar The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family 3418 06-19-2018 01:39 PM
Meghan Markle: Wedding Dress Suggestions and Musings soapstar Royal Style File 1819 05-19-2018 06:22 AM
Meghan Markle: Wedding Tiara and Jewelry Suggestions and Musings Tilia C. Royal Jewels General Discussion 999 05-19-2018 06:02 AM




Popular Tags
abdication america american history anastasia anastasia once upon a time ancestry archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism british british royal family brownbitcoinqueen china chinese commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs daisy doge of venice doll dubai duke of sussex facts george vi gustaf vi adolf hello! house of windsor imperial household intro italian royal family jack brooksbank jacobite japan jewellery kids movie king edward vii książ castle line of succession list of rulers luxembourg meghan markle nepalese royal jewels prince constantijn prince dimitri princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn walailak princess ribha queen consort queen mathilde queen maxima random facts royal ancestry royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royal wedding royal wedding gown serbian royal family solomon j solomon speech sussex suthida swedish queen taiwan tradition uae customs united states of america welsh wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×