Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[Humbugged]

If fast tracking happens, it will be if there is going to be a child. I think that would be understood.
I still dont understand how the BRF finances come into (Ive read this thread and other documents from other sources).

It's because while she is still a US citizen and liable for tax in the US the IRS have the right to dig into whatever joint finances her and Harry will have and whatever allowance she ends up getting from the family

 

[jacqui24]

The issue of immigration was controversial in the Netherlands as well. Still the large majority understood that a prominent member of the Dutch royal family should have Dutch citizenship. I assume it was the same in Denmark and Luxembourg.

Surely a far better option than creating lots of other issues down the line not only for Meghan but also for any children they may have.

My personal feeling on this for the future children is that dual citizenship actually be a better thing until they've decided what they want to do for their life. They will live their life as private citizens, but I don't know if it would be better to do so in UK just judging by the York princesses. It might actually be easier for them to live a private life in US if they so choose. It gives them a convenient second option basically. As for investments, they can easily just keep the accounts in US and only file US tax returns. The issue this create isn't so much technical issues, but optics if it becomes public knowledge. Now, I would argue that if the people didn't see this as enough of an issue to expedite Meghan's citizenship, they shouldn't really complain if the children don't pay British taxes even if they would be in line to the British throne.

 

[Stefan]

On the other hand, Luxembourg and Belgium did not even offer citizenship to Princess Claire of Luxembourg or Princess Amedeo of Belgium respectively.

But Hereditary Grand Duchess Stephanie was given the luxemburgian nationalitiy upon her marriage. And there where lots of critics at that time that she got it much faster then normal people so very likely the governemtn saw no reason to grat it to Princess Claire as the couple has no active role in Luxembourg and also does not live there on a permanent basis.

 

[Somebody]

The expected criticism didn't lead to the Luxembourgish government deciding against what was best. Hopefully the UK follows the lead of other European countries that had to deal with this same issue.

 

[jacqui24]

I don't think they'll reevaluate this issue again until Meghan is pregnant. I have to think the BRF and the government (or at least PM) have discussed this given how thorough everything usually is with the BRF. Even the no official invite at the wedding was done with the approval of the government.

 

[Ista]

I'm sure they will fast trakc her citizenship, some people will moan but it will happen anyway...

This is what I am assuming as well. The potential for headaches and embarrassments if her citizenship is not fast tracked would certainly outweigh any moaning.

Because the fact is, some people are going to moan no matter what.

 

[Lady Nimue]

One thing I'm sure she won't do is accept any fast track UK citizenship even if it were offered to her, and I very much doubt it would be. Immigration is an enormously touchy subject in the UK, one need only see recent news headlines in the UK over the last few days.

Again, I don't think her citizenship status is wholly her decision. I can't see her having that kind of power in her situation. She (and Harry) will have input but the ultimate decision will factor in considerations larger than their wishes. JMO. (I am concerned that this is being put on Meghan with the consequent suggestion that there will be a backlash against her for what is an institutional decision).

What's odd is we have posters who declare that Meghan will have to 'get with the program' of royal dressing protocols (if there are such), yet something as vast and profound as this becomes her sole decision. What?

Note: She is not an 'American princess'. She will be a British princess.

Giving an American princess special treatment in this regard would be a PR disaster of gargantuan proportions for the BRF and the government of the day. This may or may not be fair to Meghan personally but it is the reality here in the UK.

Apples and oranges and I would suspect that the 'PR disaster' will be with only a very stratified minority of the population. People who are already unhappy with the prince's choice of bride. Just a hunch. Might be wrong but so I think.

Fact is this is a royal/class issue. Yes Meghan is different. She will be royal, like it or not. She is not like any other immigrant, she is not 'the same' even though she comes from 'regular folk'. If that lack of sameness is upsetting, then do away with the royals. Until that takes place, however, the royal system is in place and Meghan upon marriage will be royal and gets fast-tracked. Her status at once is elevated and as part of that system she gets these perks and for very good reasons. IMO.

 

[jacqui24]

This is what I am assuming as well. The potential for headaches and embarrassments if her citizenship is not fast tracked would certainly outweigh any moaning.

Because the fact is, some people are going to moan no matter what.

It has been announced already that she will follow the normal process.

 

[Ista]

Well, we'll see what is eventually meant by "normal process." If she does have to jump through all the hoops, and is not in any way fast-tracked, it will certainly be very interesting to follow, especially when it comes to how she reports income, gifts, etc. The implications of the children possibly also having dual citizenship seems like a terrible idea, but that also will be interesting to watch. Time will tell.

 

[Mbruno]

On the other hand, Luxembourg and Belgium did not even offer citizenship to Princess Claire of Luxembourg or Princess Amedeo of Belgium respectively.

What about Prince Lorenz ? I don ‘t consider Princess Amedeo a member of the Belgian royal house.

 

[PetticoatLane]

If fast tracking caused significant criticism in tiny Luxembourg, which from what I've seen has the kind of compliant press that the British RF could only dream of, you can only imagine how badly it would go down here.

As soon as it would happen you'd see the papers and social media splashing any number of sob stories around about nurses who've worked decades in the NHS not getting similar treatment, or interpreters in Afghanistan who worked with the British Armed Forces having to wait longer, or 80 year old Jamaican grannies who are denied citizenship and can't go to the wedding of their grandchildren etc. etc. etc.

No British government would touch this with a 40ft pole IMO. They would open themselves to enormous criticism with no apparent gain for themselves.

Alternatively, Meghan going through the normal process and then going to her local town hall and swearing allegiance to HM with other new citizens would be a PR triumph for her personally and the BRF.

 

[Mbruno]

Well, we'll see what is eventually meant by "normal process." If she does have to jump through all the hoops, and is not in any way fast-tracked, it will certainly be very interesting to follow, especially when it comes to how she reports income, gifts, etc. The implications of the children possibly also having dual citizenship seems like a terrible idea, but that also will be interesting to watch. Time will tell.

The children can of course also renounce their US citizenship as British politicians such as Boris Johnson did in the past. I agree though that it would be better if they were not born as dual nationals.

 

[jacqui24]

The children can of course also renounce their US citizenship as British politicians such as Boris Johnson did in the past. I agree though that it would be better if they were not born as dual nationals.

Not until they are 18. That's the tricky part. Meghan can renounce any time after her obtains UK citizenship. However, all children born to her before then will not be able to renounce until they are the age of majority. Let's say she has a child in 2019, and gets her citizenship in 2024. She can renounce in 2024, but the child can't. The parents can't do it on behalf of the child either. The only way her children wouldn't have dual citizenship is if she has them after she becomes a UK citizen and renounces. But given her age, I highly doubt they'd wait until then.

Like I said, if they are worried about possibly setting up trust fund for the children and tax issues, there was ways to get around it. But it's matter of optics. How would the British public feel if they found out the assets set up for the children are held in US and doesn't pay UK taxes, but pays US taxes? And how would they feel the 6th in line and possibly more to the throne being also citizen of another country?

 

[Lady Nimue]

This is not a new situation. How did they handle this decades ago when a BRF member married foreign royalty? How did that go? For example, if William married Madeleine of Sweden years ago, how would it have been handled with Madeleine?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

This is not a new situation. How did they handle this decades ago when a BRF member married foreign royalty?

Before January 1, 1983, the law gave foreign women marrying British men the right to British citizenship.

British Nationality Act 1948
British Nationality Act 1981

 

[Mbruno]

Before January 1, 1983, the law gave foreign women marrying British men the right to British citizenship.

British Nationality Act 1948
British Nationality Act 1981

And the last foreign princess to marry into the BRF was Princess Marina in 1934.

 

[Curbside]

What are permanent residents allowed to do in the U.K.? Here, they can even serve in the armed forces, which one could argue is more consequential than the PR role Meghan will have.

 

[MARG]

It's because while she is still a US citizen and liable for tax in the US the IRS have the right to dig into whatever joint finances her and Harry will have and whatever allowance she ends up getting from the family

I somehow doubt the government will be happy for the US IRS to have access to sensitive information that the public doesn't either.

As a member of the Commonwealth, I find the idea of Meghan "representing the Queen and UK government" kind of weird when she isn't even a citizen. Will the government of the UK find it okay share the personal sort of information required? I guess we can only wait and see.

 

[Ista]

(..)

I'm also wondering a bit who is going to be paying for her wardrobe in the future, especially with the weird tax situation she will face as long as she has to file US taxes.

 

[jacqui24]

I'm also wondering a bit who is going to be paying for her wardrobe in the future, especially with the weird tax situation she will face as long as she has to file US taxes.

It will be Duchy of Cornwall as the Cambridges and Harry are support by now. Her clothing isn't for her own benefit. It's for her to wear during royal engagements. All of that goes through their offices instead of her personally.

 

[Ista]

It will be Duchy of Cornwall as the Cambridges and Harry are support by now. Her clothing isn't for her own benefit. It's for her to wear during royal engagements. All of that goes through their offices instead of her personally.

I know all that, my comment was simply about the oddness of having an allowance for clothing which allows her to do the job she will have married into, but having to report it to another government as income. It's just a weird situation.

Edited to add: I wonder if she could avoid that by continuing to pay for her own clothing out of her savings until she achieves UK citizenship. Probably OT for this thread, though.

 

[jacqui24]

I know all that, my comment was simply about the oddness of having an allowance for clothing which allows her to do the job she will have married into, but having to report it to another government as income. It's just a weird situation.

Edited to add: I wonder if she could avoid that by continuing to pay for her own clothing out of her savings until she achieves UK citizenship. Probably OT for this thread, though.

My point is, she won't have to report it as income as it isn't for her own benefit. Even for those that do make money off of say photoshoots, any clothes they purchased for it is deducted as expenses. So it's a wash in the end anyways.

And to ask her to pay for her own wardrobe for engagements for the next however many years is just odd. She had to quit her job, which took away her income, and now she's to put in her own money? Even if there is a tax effect, that won't be how this is handled.

 

[Lady Nimue]

My point is, she won't have to report it as income as it isn't for her own benefit. Even for those that do make money off of say photoshoots, any clothes they purchased for it is deducted as expenses. So it's a wash in the end anyways.

And to ask her to pay for her own wardrobe for engagements for the next however many years is just odd. She had to quit her job, which took away her income, and now she's to put in her own money?

Agree. I'd question that big-time. Not going to be. No reason for it to be.

 

[jacqui24]

I'm a CPA.

 

[Ista]

I'm a CPA.

Now, that's extremely interesting that Meghan shouldn't have any problems accepting money for clothing, since I thought all gifts and compensation would need to be reported. Ah, the wonders of the US tax system.

 

[Juliette2]

I'm also wondering a bit who is going to be paying for her wardrobe in the future, especially with the weird tax situation she will face as long as she has to file US taxes.

She will have filed and paid taxes in the US last week for 2017. Beginning next year she will pay taxes in the UK where she now a resides. There are agreements between the two countries. She has to pay taxes in the US from now on ONLY if what she pays in the UK is less that what she would have paid in the US. Now that I think about it, it is also possible that she has actually filed her tax returns in Canada...

 

[jacqui24]

Now, that's extremely interesting that Meghan shouldn't have any problems accepting money for clothing, since I thought all gifts and compensation would need to be reported. Ah, the wonders of the US tax system.

It depends on how it's structured and what it's for. Anything she's given or if she's loaned jewelry on her wedding or any private event in her life would be. However, her clothes for public engagements carried out on behalf of the royal family isn't for her own benefit. My guess for the young royals is that any Duchy money that pays for their office and public wardrobe likely flushes through their offices, or they'd have to deal with it on their own UK tax returns. Last I remembered, the members of royal family do pay taxes now, but I'm not familiar with UK tax laws.

I could go into more details about this and give example. But you are right, let's move this to citizenship thread.

 

[Ista]

It depends on how it's structured and what it's for. Anything she's given or if she's loaned jewelry on her wedding or any private event in her life would be. However, her clothes for public engagements carried out on behalf of the royal family isn't for her own benefit. My guess for the young royals is that any Duchy money that pays for their office and public wardrobe likely flushes through their offices, or they'd have to deal with it on their own UK tax returns. Last I remembered, the members of royal family do pay taxes now, but I'm not familiar with UK tax laws.

I could go into more details about this and give example. But you are right, let's move this to citizenship thread.

Oh, good, the thread got moved. You said you could give some examples: do you have time to do that? I'd be especially interested in how things like jewelry loans (say a tiara for a state dinner) would be handled, and how things like her housing would work.

 

[Rudolph]

If the IRS gets involved in jewellery loans Meghan will have to buy her own things.

I can’t see the BRF opening up it’s books to a foreign government just because Meghan is American. That’s her ‘issue’ to deal with.

 

[royal rob]

If the IRS gets involved in jewellery loans Meghan will have to buy her own things.

I can’t see the BRF opening up it’s books to a foreign government just because Meghan is American. That’s her ‘issue’ to deal with.

There is no way they would do that. Her people ( lawyers Etc )would need to sort that out.