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  #781  
Old 08-20-2019, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
thanks for the clarification, although the media did report that the company was carbon neutral. it is indeed the same company they chose to go to ibiza, so i wonder who offsetted those emissions then if the company wasn't carbon neutral to begin with.

in any case, the message is still quite obnoxious: 'we have money, and hence we can take as many private jets as we want for our private holidays because we can pay for carbon offset. for the rest of you, we are eco warriors and advocate that you take more environmentally friendly transport options, because clearly you are not as well connected as we are to have friends who pay to offset the costs of our kind of privileged travel'.
You are right, that is the message that is coming over.

I find the whole idea that because you donate money to a charity it somehow offsets all the harm of 4 flights, all a bit airey fairey. How can money offset the damage already done. I don't care how many flights they all take, and who pays for them, this type of thing has went on for years, but do not try and explain yourself by saying it doesn't count because we donated to charity.
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  #782  
Old 08-20-2019, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I find the whole idea that because you donate money to a charity it somehow offsets all the harm of 4 flights, all a bit airey fairey. How can money offset the damage already done. I don't care how many flights they all take, and who pays for them, this type of thing has went on for years, but do not try and explain yourself by saying it doesn't count because we donated to charity.
Money can't offset damage already done. If you use a private jet, no amount of money can take that CO2 out of the air within the timescale needed to reduce it. You can make the flight 'carbon neutral' in the long term but we don't have the luxury of time.

Carbon offsetting projects are very good & we shouldn't knock them because they are doing something positive. I think they are particularly helpful to businesses & industry as a temporary measure until they are able to reduce their carbon footprint drastically.

In Harry & Meghan's case, I think they are trying to be responsible and it's disheartening to see them constantly slammed for doing the same as other BRF members have done. However, the best thing they could do for the planet is to announce they won't ever use private jets for their personal use. I also think this is something the whole BRF should do because we know they use private jets for breaks & holidays. Their lifestyles have to change because we have a climate crisis - Prince Charles should lead on this as he's been the most high profile ecology campaigner for decades. This might also mean they all have to cut back on helicopters & private jets for official work and even on long distance travel itself. I won't continue because it would be off-topic but I'll reiterate that Harry & Meghan have an opportunity to represent their generation in tackling this climate crisis & they should take it.
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  #783  
Old 08-20-2019, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
You are right, that is the message that is coming over.

I find the whole idea that because you donate money to a charity it somehow offsets all the harm of 4 flights, all a bit airey fairey. How can money offset the damage already done. I don't care how many flights they all take, and who pays for them, this type of thing has went on for years, but do not try and explain yourself by saying it doesn't count because we donated to charity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Money can't offset damage already done. If you use a private jet, no amount of money can take that CO2 out of the air within the timescale needed to reduce it. You can make the flight 'carbon neutral' in the long term but we don't have the luxury of time.

Carbon offsetting projects are very good & we shouldn't knock them because they are doing something positive. I think they are particularly helpful to businesses & industry as a temporary measure until they are able to reduce their carbon footprint drastically.

In Harry & Meghan's case, I think they are trying to be responsible and it's disheartening to see them constantly slammed for doing the same as other BRF members have done. However, the best thing they could do for the planet is to announce they won't ever use private jets for their personal use. I also think this is something the whole BRF should do because we know they use private jets for breaks & holidays. Their lifestyles have to change because we have a climate crisis - Prince Charles should lead on this as he's been the most high profile ecology campaigner for decades. This might also mean they all have to cut back on helicopters & private jets for official work and even on long distance travel itself. I won't continue because it would be off-topic but I'll reiterate that Harry & Meghan have an opportunity to represent their generation in tackling this climate crisis & they should take it.
> I agree, that whilst carbon offsetting is an interim step, they have absolutely no impact on actual carbon emitted on a flight.

> Is there a degree of hypocrisy in campaigning for the environment and using private planes? Yes, absolutely

> Can the use of private planes by people like Prince Charles and Prince William entirely be eliminated? No. I understand since 11 Sep 2001, Prince Charles has been advised to not fly commercially. I think William is quite restricted, but has a lot more freedom than Prince Charles.

> Can helicopter use by members of the BRF be reduced within the country? Definitely. Both for engagements around the country and from travel between royal homes.

> Do I consider the H&M's use of private jets for private holidays any more hypocritical than that of other members of the BRF? Not particularly, though I suspect they are not under the stringent advice from security services that Charles and possibly William is.
  #784  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
"After creating a substantial carbon footprint, Elton John has donated a large sum to research the problem of people creating substantial carbon footprints.

He would also like to remind everyone of his connection to the late Diana, Princess of Wales, who tragically died."

This seems to be the general effect Elton's statement is creating.
Yes, and it is terrible PR.
As Tommy said, do not take up a cause if you do not embrace it yourself.
If you fly around on private jets, do not preach to others about environmental issues unless you are prepared to be labeled a hypocrite.

That way you do more harm than good.
  #785  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Money can't offset damage already done. If you use a private jet, no amount of money can take that CO2 out of the air within the timescale needed to reduce it. You can make the flight 'carbon neutral' in the long term but we don't have the luxury of time.

Carbon offsetting projects are very good & we shouldn't knock them because they are doing something positive. I think they are particularly helpful to businesses & industry as a temporary measure until they are able to reduce their carbon footprint drastically.

In Harry & Meghan's case, I think they are trying to be responsible and it's disheartening to see them constantly slammed for doing the same as other BRF members have done. However, the best thing they could do for the planet is to announce they won't ever use private jets for their personal use. I also think this is something the whole BRF should do because we know they use private jets for breaks & holidays. Their lifestyles have to change because we have a climate crisis - Prince Charles should lead on this as he's been the most high profile ecology campaigner for decades. This might also mean they all have to cut back on helicopters & private jets for official work and even on long distance travel itself. I won't continue because it would be off-topic but I'll reiterate that Harry & Meghan have an opportunity to represent their generation in tackling this climate crisis & they should take it.
An article on the same topic has just been published in the Guardian:
Why carbon offsetting is not the panacea Harry and Meghan might think it is
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ht-think-it-is
  #786  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
An article on the same topic has just been published in the Guardian:
Why carbon offsetting is not the panacea Harry and Meghan might think it is
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ht-think-it-is
A nice, succinct opinion piece about why exactly Elton John's tweet produced so many eye rolls.
  #787  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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Carbon 'offsetting' is merely a way of assuaging ones guilt - much like paying someone else to be faithful in their marriage if it was impossible for oneself...
  #788  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Carbon 'offsetting' is merely a way of assuaging ones guilt - much like paying someone else to be faithful in their marriage if it was impossible for oneself...
Love the analogy!!
  #789  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:58 PM
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Every senior member of the BRF uses private helicopters and planes, but all the outrage is being placed on Harry and Meghan. Curious. Harry and Meghan were gifted a holiday. Their host not only provided a private place to stay, but purchased a flight for them on a private jet service that offsets their carbon footprint. Whether you agree that this helps or not, it’s something positive.

The outrage seems totally and completely ridiculous at this point. The Sussexes didn’t break the Earth. That was done by all of us. We all could and should do more, but if you are driving by yourself to work or the store and not carpooling or bicycling or composting or separating or any of a number of things that might roll back global warming, then why place all the blame on these two for living.
  #790  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:01 PM
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This climate change preaching and then flying around in private jets could make it seem like Harry and Meghan are saying "Since we are so rich, or know people who are rich, and can donate to charity to offset our carbon emissions, it is okay for us to fly, but you little people who don't have this luxury need to stop flying" It smacks of self-importance. I don't know if Harry and Meghan realize that it may across this way to some people. I truly don't think that is their attitude, but they need to start thinking before acting and they need better advisers. If they are going to do something anyway, regardless of what some people may think, they need to adopt the Queen Mother's mantra, "Never complain, never explain." Also, they need to tell their celebrity friend to stop speaking up for them. It usually makes it worse, as in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuchessMia View Post
Every senior member of the BRF uses private helicopters and planes, but all the outrage is being placed on Harry and Meghan. Curious. Harry and Meghan were gifted a holiday. Their host not only provided a private place to stay, but purchased a flight for them on a private jet service that offsets their carbon footprint. Whether you agree that this helps or not, it’s something positive.

The outrage seems totally and completely ridiculous at this point. The Sussexes didn’t break the Earth. That was done by all of us. We all could and should do more, but if you are driving by yourself to work or the store and not carpooling or bicycling or composting or separating or any of a number of things that might roll back global warming, then why place all the blame on these two for living.
Not all members of the royal family preach climate change to the same degree that Harry does, so that is why he is getting more criticism. Yes, Prince Charles does, but people are just not as interested in him as they are in Harry. Unfortunately, the more popular you are the more criticism you get when you don't appear to practice what you preach. I truly believe at this point that he went to the Google Camp because if he had not, Buckingham Palace or a celebrity friend would have denied it for them. I am not saying that Harry should not fly private jets, but if he is going to do so, then he needs to take it easy on his climate change crusading. I am not saying that this is fair or not fair, but public perception is everything when it comes to the royal family. Also, the tabloids have the ability to incite people. If someone reads a headline criticizing them for something, they may think about it and agree. Now, the tabloids have unfairly targeted Meghan (and Harry) in many ways, but this is not one of them.
  #791  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:13 PM
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Meghan.html

Now singer Pink is coming out on Twitter supporting H&M, what is not helping at all. Celebrities defending royals not understanding that they are not the same: while celebrities are all about themselves, earning their own money with a successful entertainment career, royals are funded by the taxpayer and exist to serve the public.
  #792  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Not all members of the royal family preach climate change to the same degree that Harry does, so that is why he is getting more criticism. Yes, Prince Charles does, but people are just not as interested in him as they are in Harry. Unfortunately, the more popular you are the more criticism you get when you don't appear to practice what you preach. I am not saying that Harry should not fly private jets, but if he is going to do so, then he needs to take it easy on his climate change crusading. I truly believe at this point that he went to the Google Camp because if he had not, Buckingham Palace or a celebrity friend would have denied it for them.
Why would a trip to the Google camp be kept secret, would this not come under official duties.
I don't understand the secrecy.
  #793  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob2008 View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49398852

How I wish the British 'royals' were more royal. They inherit a special and different higher status. It would be preferable if they did not consort so closely with people whose merit is simply billionaire wealth. It is more difficult to respect the British monarchy when it acts like TV celebrities.
I totally and completely agree. This is what gives them their mystique and that mystique is sadly going away. When we begin viewing them as nothing different than the next celebrity, they are not going to last very long.
Let's hope this just stays mostly confined to Harry and Meghan. I don't think they alone will break the monarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Why would a trip to the Google camp be kept secret, would this not come under official duties.
I don't understand the secrecy.
I don't think this would be an official duty. It would probably be a private trip, but since it has received so much criticism, I would think that if he did not go, someone would have said so by this point. I could be wrong, though.
  #794  
Old 08-20-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Not all members of the royal family preach climate change to the same degree that Harry does, so that is why he is getting more criticism. Yes, Prince Charles does, but people are just not as interested in him as they are in Harry. Unfortunately, the more popular you are the more criticism you get when you don't appear to practice what you preach. I truly believe at this point that he went to the Google Camp because if he had not, Buckingham Palace or a celebrity friend would have denied it for them. I am not saying that Harry should not fly private jets, but if he is going to do so, then he needs to take it easy on his climate change crusading. I am not saying that this is fair or not fair, but public perception is everything when it comes to the royal family. Also, the tabloids have the ability to incite people. If someone reads a headline criticizing them for something, they may think about it and agree. Now, the tabloids have unfairly targeted Meghan (and Harry) in many ways, but this is not one of them.
Where is he preaching about climate change? Where are all these instances of lecturing on climate change that people keep talking about? It canít be that one interview with Jane Goodall. It seems he tries to do his part and people have reported on his personal choices and called it posturing/lecturing.

If it isnít fair, but expected because heís the most popular royal, itís still unfair to lay all of this at his feet while letting other royals get away with it. And yes, itís unfair to target Meghan and conveniently leave out the others.
  #795  
Old 08-20-2019, 02:05 PM
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A very fair and balanced article which attempts to work out the impact of the private jet flights:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49408915

Sir Elton John has defended the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's use of a private jet. The singer said he provided them with his private plane for a visit to his home in Nice to "maintain a high level of much-needed protection".

Questions have been asked about the royal couple's use of private jets and their environmental impact, especially after Prince Harry recently said on Instagram: "With nearly 7.7 billion people inhabiting this Earth, every choice, every footprint, every action makes a difference."

Prince Harry and Meghan's trip to Nice was reported to have been on a 12-seat Cessna Citation Sovereign, which has a fuel consumption of 247 gallons per hour.

The flight time to Nice is about one hour 40 minutes, which would mean a fuel requirement of 411 gallons (1,868 litres).

The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) says 2.52kg of carbon dioxide are emitted for every litre of aviation turbine fuel burned.

This makes a total of 4.7 tonnes of carbon dioxide. For a return flight, it would be 9.4 tonnes.

The couple also reportedly flew to Ibiza this month, on a nine-seater Cessna - with slightly lower fuel consumption, but an estimated flight time of two hours 10 minutes. Using the same calculation method, it works out at 5.2 tonnes of CO2, and 10.4 tonnes for the return flight.



Again, as this more balanced article shows, the reason it is being discussed is due to the couple focussing on Environmental Issues of late- the apparent google camp, the interview with Jane Goodall, this instagram post https://www.instagram.com/p/BzWbKn1l...ource=ig_embed

I have absolutely no issue with them choosing to use a private jet, whether of their own accord or because it was offered to them. As a royal it is more secure (though we do see royals inc William & Kate and their children use scheduled flights enough to suggest their protection officers have no issue with it), offers more privacy and is more convenient. If someone offered me the chance to fly to my holiday on a scheduled flight or a private jet (if they were picking up the bill!) I'd choose a private jet. Then again I also wouldn't be making speeches and posting instagram posts to million of people urging them ďWith nearly 7.7 billion people inhabiting this Earth, every choice, every footprint, every action makes a difference.Ē

Criticising them for this is not racist, its not anti-american, its not suggesting they should put themselves at risk on scheduled flights, its not saying they have done anything illegal or that plenty of others royals don't do. Its about saying we should all do our part and then making repeated choices which are at odds with that.

Interestingly, very little of the criticism I have seen has been directed at Meghan anyway, its Harry who's been making the speeches. I find it interesting that Pink for example, quickly turned her post into a defence of Meghan even though there has been very little criticism of her over this from what I have seen.
  #796  
Old 08-20-2019, 02:18 PM
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I think Harry & Meghan (like many of us) are on a progressive path to being greener. None of us is perfect but it shouldn't stop us raising awareness with whatever platform we have. For most people that would be amongst family, friends & colleagues but for others in the public eye, a much wider audience can be reached. I don't consider Harry's words on the topic to be "lecturing". He's just trying to use his platform to publicise the issue. There's more he could do of course eg stop using private jets, only use zero carbon transport, stop eating meat & dairy products, don't have a 2nd child etc. Personally I'd love to see him do all of those things but the problem is that we shouldn't expect anyone to be 100% perfect before they can speak on any issue. Responsible people everywhere are trying to reduce their carbon footprint while encouraging others to do the same. Yes, we can point to hypocrisies but they are everywhere so if we're going to call them out, we should do it to everyone & not just the easiest targets.
  #797  
Old 08-20-2019, 02:27 PM
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My take on this is that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex can either lecture us on climate change and saving the planet.
Or they can use private jets to go on their summer holidays.
But they must choose which - they CANNOT do both.
  #798  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:08 PM
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I don't know much about the overall emissions information off the top of my head so I would have to do research on that before speaking to it. That being said people are acting like Meghan/Harry never take commercial flights and they have. Just like other royals including the Cambridges have taken private flights.
  #799  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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I think the focus on these two private jet trips is understandable, because it's contrasted in time with Harry's statements about individual action.

It's also easier to explain/understand on an instinctive level (private flights == a lot of carbon emissions) in a way that their much, much bigger carbon emission sins aren't.

Think about this:

Quote:
But no, I think we were able to really have so much time just to connect and we never went longer than two weeks without seeing each other, even though we were obviously doing a long distance relationship. So it's - we made it work. -- Meghan Markle, November 2017
Between their meeting at the beginning of July 2016 and Meghan moving to the UK in November 2017, they were in a long distance relationship in which they never went more than 2 weeks without seeing each other. There are 35 fortnights in that period. Which means a lot of translatlantic flights. Probably, accounting for period where Meghan was having extended stays in the UK, around 30 flights between the two of them. For each flight, they were responsible for somewhere between 2 and 6 (depending on cabin class) tonnes of CO2. And that's leaving aside any trips to Africa, or the multiple security officers Harry had to travel with. At a minimum, over that 15 month period, they collectively were responsible for at least 60 tonnes of CO2.

The math is pretty staggering when you consider that the average Brit is responsible for about 6 tonnes per year.

So, yeah.. I agree that Harry and Meghan don't have a lot of room to talk about individual responsibility for improving climate change. But I also think that these flights to Nice and Ibiza are such a drop in the couple's bucket that they're effectively bread and circuses.
  #800  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:26 PM
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I say leave them alone and let them enjoy, and who cares?
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