> After Johan Friso and Mabel marry, will Mabel become a princess? Will Johan Friso still be prince?
Johan Friso will remain Prince of Orange-Nassau but he will loose his title as HRH Prince of the Netherlands. Mabel will not be given a title but I believe she will have the right to use JFs title
> So, will she be Princess Johan Friso of Orange-Nassau or will she be a princess still like Princess Laurentien? I'm a bit confused about this title thing for Mabel because Friso renounced his rights and didn't see Parlimentary consent.
The tradition of using the husbands name and title like in England does not exist in The Netherlands. If it had Laurentien would have been known as Princess Constantijn as she has not been made a princess in her own right either. So I would suspect that Mabel could be known as Princess Mabel of Orange-Nassau if she wishes since she has the right to use her husbands title
> Mabel doesn't get a title. I doubt if she is allowed to use Friso's title.
Titles are names in The Netherlands are they not? And spouses can use eachothers names, so why wouldn't Mabel have the right to us JFs - are there some kind of special rules for the royal tiltles?
I have never heard this before, I thought that only in republics titles became names, not in monarchies & especially not within reigning royal families. It is a predicate. As Mabel will not receive a title in her own right like Maxima or Laurentien she will not be allowed to be called Pss Mabel. I guess she could be called pss Johan-F but this is very undutch (or 19th century), so my guess is that she just stays Mabel of Orange-Nassau or Mabel Wisse-Smit (dutch women can keep their own surname when they marry)
I have checked it an you are correct. She is allowed to call herself Pss Laurentien of the Netherlands (just like it is Pss Marilene and Pss Anette of O-N), the website of the royal house even uses these names. So a curtsey title perhaps? I just now sent an e-mail on this matter to the RVD; I do not expect a usefull reply though (they never give usefull awnsers)
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Friso and Mabel to marry in Delft </span></span></span></span></span></span>
12 December 2003
AMSTERDAM — Prince Johan Friso and Mabel Wisse Smit — who sparked controversy earlier this year by lying about a previous relationship with drugs baron Klaas Bruinsma — will marry in Delft on 24 April.
The royal couple will marry without Parliament's approval because Mabel was forced to admit she had lied about the extent of the affair. This prompted Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende to confirm at the start of October that the Cabinet will not seek Parliamentary approval of the marriage.
"There is no cure for deceit," he said.
Prince Friso is currently third in line to the throne — after his brother Crown Prince Willem-Alexander and his baby daughter Princess Catharina-Amalia — but will lose succession rights by marring Mabel. Heirs to the Dutch throne must gain parliamentary approval of their marriage.
Mabel lied about the extent of her relationship with Bruinsma, who was shot and killed in Amsterdam in 1991. After former Bruinsma bodyguard Charlie da Silva claimed Mabel had been in a relationship with the mafia boss, she was forced to admit her friendship with Bruinsma was closer than previously thought.
But the lauded human rights worker continued to deny she had been sexually involved with Bruinsma and despite subsequent rumours that she and Prince Friso had broken up, the marriage will go ahead as planned.
Mabel's first public appearance after the scandal came on Sunday 7 December when she arrived at the Bronovo Hospital in The Hague with her fiancé and his mother, Queen Beatrix. The royal trio was visiting Prince Willem-Alexander and his wife Princess Maxima, after she gave birth of the nation's future queen.
The Government Information Service (RVD) announced on Friday the marriage will go ahead in April as planned, confirming Delft as the location, news agency ANP reported.
Delft Mayor Hein van Oorschot will officiate during the civil ceremony and Reverend Carel ter Linden — who officiates at most royal family religious ceremonies, such as funerals and weddings — will perform the church wedding in the Oude Kerk.
The RVD said the royal couple chose to wed in Delft "because of the historical links between the House of Oranje-Nassau and the city". Furthermore, Prince Friso and Mabel's father studied at the Delft Technical University.
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"Had she come clean in the beginning, rather than enduring the constant drips of information, it may have been able to have been managed in the press. But they didn't tell the government or the family what they were really dealing with, so they couldn't spin it. "
The hypocrisy of all of this is amazing. The government was spying on the Queen's sister with her help. Sure, that's done a lot but you can't take the high road. Also what did they want? How deep was the relationship? Receipts and everything. It doesn't matter. I hope they are happy because they put that woman through hell over this. She should not have had to explain herself. It's all because of who the friend was. I just find that wrong.
Originally posted by Janet@Aug 23rd, 2003 - 6:33 pm I can't help but think Beatrix would privately be spitting feathers about this.
After the controversy over Maxima's background, the Queen must have been even more determined to avoid the British way and then the whole Margarita fiasco and now problems with her second son's bride!!!!
Perhaps she'll be contacting Queen Elizabeth II and asking her for advice on how to handle so many scandals and difficulties, I can't help but think that Beatrix is going to face more in the coming years.
Dear Janet,
Using Queen Elizabeth as a sympathetic ear may not be that fruitful, in my opinion, however, I'm just one person. I think Queen Elizabeth just "turned a blind eye" toward anything "out-of-the-ordinary" which affected her children and family. Prince Philip usually "meeted out the hard discussions of problems", I believe, however, Queen Beatrix's husband is now deceased. She's alone in her decision - making ~ albeit the Dutch Parliament is an everpresent source.
The "standards-to-be-held" for these poor wives-to-be are bordering on the unhumane. Yes, I'm sure there will be a "little spitting of feathers" before it is all over, but Mabel's past is being considered unworthyly ~ just because she once knew a gangster??!! OK ~ it went past "just knowing a gangster" ~ but, did SHE join him in his gangland maneuvers?? ~ I imagine NOT! People do change and I don't believe this should be held against her. The Parliament is saying that Mabel wasn't as forthcoming as she should have been. What should she have said?? ~ "Oh, yeah, by the way, I was involved with an underworld Kingpin a thousand years ago!" (just joking) ~ but, is that the ONLY DEFINING feature of this woman? Not! I think the whole situation is sad. Very sad and very unfair.
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I agree, ElizaJane. I'm glad there somebody around here agrees with me. No offense to you, Kelly, but I was starting to feel alone on all of this. You make valid points.
I think that when we look back to this "Mabelgate" in 2013, we don't know anymore why we have make such a problem about her contacts with Klaas Bruinsma when she was 20 or something like that. And she didn't tell everything to the PM about her "relation", but I can understand that. It was better that she had told everything, but that is too late now. Unfortunately for her and Johan Friso :(
I think it's really unfortunate that they would condemn her so much for a mistake she made when she was younger and didn't even know the prince. I admit, lying about it was bad, but it's an understandable defense-mechanism. If you had done wrong and the stakes are high, chances are you'll lie about it and try to cover it up. I don't know how I would feel if someone prosecuted me for taking a pencil from a classmate of mine back in kindergarten.
__________________
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Kronprinserne Frederik og Felipe bliver ikke de eneste royale brudgomme i 2004. Den hollandske prins Friso trumfer sin vilje igennem og bliver gift med Mabel Wisse Smit til trods for hendes belastede fortid som kæreste med en berygtet narkogangster. Brylluppet er berammet til den 24. april, og byen Delft skal lægge rådhus og kirke til henholdsvis borgerlig og kirkelig vielse.
__________________ Never let go of anyone that you could not go a day without thinking about. There just might be a very good reason why they're always on your mind. Sometimes, it's the brain that knows too well what the heart tries so hard to deny ~ ~ Anonymous ~ ~
Originally posted by King Christian@Oct 22nd, 2003 - 3:05 pm
Quote:
thissal* Posted: Oct 21st, 2003 - 2:39 am
... Prince Bernhard as a main player in ... Bilderberg group, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Rockefellars and Rothschild's
I heard Prince Bernhard was the driving force in getting the Bilderberg Group established. The CFR is American, I thought ? The other two have lots of money, agreed.
Thissel, Funny that you mention Prince Bernhard being members of certain groups and counsels. He also had some mis - dealings with Lockheed here in America .. and, I'm not positively sure that this is the reason Juliana abdicated in favor of her daughter, the now Queen Beatrix. The "organizations and counsels" (if you want to use those terms) which he belonged to have also been suspicious to me ~ simply by the "power" which they expose themselves.
Knowledge, power and control ~ which go along with a great deal of money ~ (and, let us not forget, Queen Beatrix is alledgedly the richest monarch of them all.) In the past, I've termed members of these organizations as the "Gnomes of Zurich", the "Trilateral Commission", etc., etc. It's a very "select club" .. and, in a general way, "they" run the world so secretly that we, as citizens of different countries around the world, don't actually know that we are being lead around by a ring in our noses, down the paths they've created, i.e. "wars around the world".
Yes, it it "scary" indeed. Even my professors in college tried to "skirt" around this issue, however, in graduate school, this subject was openly discussed. The film producer, Oliver Stone, did an excellent job in his movie, "JFK", of revealing their presence ~ and, I'm not sure that Prince Bernhard was not one of them ~ a "gnome" ~ which is an unseen anomaly which rules the world.
Sorry, Thissal, if I've strayed from the subject of "Mabel and Frisco", but the mention of Prince Bernhard's membership of certain organizations, sort of spurred me on. Please forgive.
thanks , alexandria for the link to johan and mabel's engagement thread. there isn't a photo of the ring in that thread but i can see from the photo posted by paulette above that mable was wearing a ring on her left hand . it's a pity that we couldn't see the ring .... sigh....
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