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  #1521  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:10 AM
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What is sad is that people don't even recognise that Charles already spends more time in Scotland than The Queen - usually a few weeks after Christmas, including New Year as well as over Easter - usually two to three weeks as well as most of August and September.

Of course Charles doesn't count ...
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  #1522  
Old 06-07-2021, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by yukari View Post
Louise and James are also still in school, yet it didn't stop the press to write about the Wessexes supposely "move" to Scotland some times ago.

Not to mention most of their engagements are in London (investure, diplomatic meeting, etc) or England in general so flying back and forth between England-Scotland will not be a good look esp with William's Earth Shot.

I think what that advisor meant (if this news has any truth in it), is for the Cambridge to extend their stay during the summer, couple of weeks instead of the usual few days like these past years (similar calendar as the Queen: whole summer in Balmoral and winter in Sandringham) and maybe also increase their engagements in Scotland.

Edit: The Telegraph and SkyNews also reporting this (more like re-report this article). They are reputable, so maybe there's some truth here. And honestly, after the train tour last year, it will not surprise me if no 10 has some input in this plan.
The telegraph article made the assumption that Louise and James board, which they don't. At the time it was mentioned that as Louise and James are easier to home school from Scotland. It is possible however that only 1 family member is in Scotland at the time the other remaining with the children.
That been said I think all the royals will have a significant amount of royal engagements in Scotland over the year. Even if this was planned for Jubilee.
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  #1523  
Old 06-08-2021, 05:01 PM
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Should this go here?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-b1862076.html

This does not surprise me. As I've said on another thread recently the monarchy has now become part the culture wars & to mix my metaphors it's not rocket science to work out who's poisoned the well.

It's no longer just the (usually) reasonable discussion about the merits of monarchy vs republic.
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  #1524  
Old 06-08-2021, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What is sad is that people don't even recognise that Charles already spends more time in Scotland than The Queen - usually a few weeks after Christmas, including New Year as well as over Easter - usually two to three weeks as well as most of August and September.

Of course Charles doesn't count ...
I heard Prince William say in the speech he made as Lord High Commissioner during the opening ceremony of the CofS that "And my father is never happier than when walking among the hills."

https://www.royal.uk/speech-delivere...-ceremony-cofs
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  #1525  
Old 06-08-2021, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Should this go here?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-b1862076.html

This does not surprise me. As I've said on another thread recently the monarchy has now become part the culture wars & to mix my metaphors it's not rocket science to work out who's poisoned the well.
I saw that. I think that sort of thing happened before a few times in the 70s but it's not surprising it's happening now. I think it's a shame that it isn't better known that HM actually played a part in helping dismantle things like apartheid (she helped persuade Mrs Thatcher over sanctions) and did the same with some other Commonwealth countries. Of course having been on the throne for nearly 70 years her thoughts have changed as the country's have and no institution is going to be perfect or without room for improvement.

I think it would have happened without the Sussexes but they've certainly thrown jet engine on the fire.

I do think they're going to have to do something proactive to address this without getting too involved in current politics though.
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  #1526  
Old 06-08-2021, 08:07 PM
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When I first came to Australia in 1970 portraits of the Queen were often seen in Government buildings like courts, post offices, council offices etc. I live in Victoria and haven’t seen a portrait of the Queen (it was generally the famous one from the 1950s of her in tiara and the Garter) for a good twenty years.

I would guess it is much the same in other realms, certainly in NZ, and in some locales within Britain as well. It’s nothing to do with the Sussexes, just a creeping republicanism especially among the under 30s, pointing to the future.
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  #1527  
Old 06-08-2021, 08:20 PM
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You can't really blame the Sussexes for this. This is just a generational thing. The youth have very little tolerance for things like a monarchy. That is across the board and it will get louder as the years continue.

Life is different now. We just came out of a hellish year where people view folks of privilege in a very very different way. And you can't get more privileged than royalty.

Also in a era were the sins of the past are being highlighted more and more. When Kings College apologized for sending an email with a picture of Prince Philip, I knew that was just the beginning.

I am not surprised whatsoever about this news and it won't be the last. They have some work to do with the under 30s.
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  #1528  
Old 06-08-2021, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Should this go here?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-b1862076.html

This does not surprise me. As I've said on another thread recently the monarchy has now become part the culture wars & to mix my metaphors it's not rocket science to work out who's poisoned the well.

It's no longer just the (usually) reasonable discussion about the merits of monarchy vs republic.
Isn't the reasoning that Queen Elizabeth II might be viewed as a symbol of British colonialism historically inaccurate? As this Guardian article pointed out, her reign will probably be remembered as a period during which the British empire came to an end and British power was diminished.
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  #1529  
Old 06-08-2021, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Should this go here?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-b1862076.html

This does not surprise me. As I've said on another thread recently the monarchy has now become part the culture wars & to mix my metaphors it's not rocket science to work out who's poisoned the well.

It's no longer just the (usually) reasonable discussion about the merits of monarchy vs republic.
I think it is a bit strange to worry about whether a portrait of the Queen may make some people feel "unwelcome." The Queen is the head of state. If people don't want to see a portrait, they may want to find a college in a country that has does has a pristine history.
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  #1530  
Old 06-08-2021, 09:11 PM
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How is the woman who's done practically more than anyone to champion the Commonwealth and treated every member in it with egalitarian consideration going to be viewed as colonialist? I don't understand.
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  #1531  
Old 06-09-2021, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Should this go here?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-b1862076.html

This does not surprise me. As I've said on another thread recently the monarchy has now become part the culture wars & to mix my metaphors it's not rocket science to work out who's poisoned the well.

It's no longer just the (usually) reasonable discussion about the merits of monarchy vs republic.
I agree with you that the British Monarchy and Royal Family are now part of the cultural world, not just about the head of state constitution debate.

I'm not surprised by this incident of Oxford University students removing the portrait of The Queen from the Middle Common Room of Magdalen College, given that many guest speakers (e.g. Germaine Greer, John McDonnell, Selina Todd) have been no-platformed due to "bigoted, offensive and hurtful views" or even just appearing in a panel with a "controversial figure".

As for King's College London apologising for sending an email with photos of the late Prince Philip, this is the same university that was hiring "safe space marshals" (paid £12 an hour), so that the guest speaker does not perpetrate "safe space breach", as of October 2017. Some students including those from the King's College's Conservative Association and Libertarian Society were strongly oppose to the "safe space marshal" calling it a threat to freedom of speech.
https://thetab.com/uk/kings/2017/10/...-out-now-17139
https://thetab.com/uk/kings/2017/10/...e-policy-17105
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-marshals.html

As a person who recently graduated from university and is under the aged of 30, I think these behaviours (getting triggered by photos of Prince Philip and portrait of the Head of State) tarnish the reputation of higher education, graduates and even young people in general. If these students cannot handle portrait/pictures or robust discussion without "safe space", "trigger warning" or "de-platforming", how are they going to interact with people with opposing view in the workplace or just outside university? Or how are they going to survive if they go into government offices/buildings? As mentioned earlier, most people I met in university (with more progressive/left-leaning views) do not behave this way. The student activist who lobbied for these "removal of historical artwork" or "de-platforming speakers" are truely the minority who made the largest noises.
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  #1532  
Old 06-09-2021, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I agree with you that the British Monarchy and Royal Family are now part of the cultural world, not just about the head of state constitution debate.

I'm not surprised by this incident of Oxford University students removing the portrait of The Queen from the Middle Common Room of Magdalen College, given that many guest speakers (e.g. Germaine Greer, John McDonnell, Selina Todd) have been no-platformed due to "bigoted, offensive and hurtful views" or even just appearing in a panel with a "controversial figure".

As for King's College London apologising for sending an email with photos of the late Prince Philip, this is the same university that was hiring "safe space marshals" (paid £12 an hour), so that the guest speaker does not perpetrate "safe space breach", as of October 2017. Some students including those from the King's College's Conservative Association and Libertarian Society were strongly oppose to the "safe space marshal" calling it a threat to freedom of speech.
https://thetab.com/uk/kings/2017/10/...-out-now-17139
https://thetab.com/uk/kings/2017/10/...e-policy-17105
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-marshals.html

As a person who recently graduated from university and is under the aged of 30, I think these behaviours (getting triggered by photos of Prince Philip and portrait of the Head of State) tarnish the reputation of higher education, graduates and even young people in general. If these students cannot handle portrait/pictures or robust discussion without "safe space", "trigger warning" or "de-platforming", how are they going to interact with people with opposing view in the workplace or just outside university? Or how are they going to survive if they go into government offices/buildings? As mentioned earlier, most people I met in university (with more progressive/left-leaning views) do not behave this way. The student activist who lobbied for these "removal of historical artwork" or "de-platforming speakers" are truely the minority who made the largest noises.

This was so totally jawdropping. And then to realize that this is the future fine fleur of British society...


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  #1533  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:40 AM
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It isn't even republicanism - it's just this crazy culture war thing going on at universities. One university recently banned the Armed Forces from a careers fair, on the grounds that they promoted war and colonialism. A student who objected was threatened with suspension from her course. It's getting like Chairman Mao's Culture Wars. I'm glad that my university days are over, but it's very worrying that this sort of thing is going on.
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  #1534  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:03 AM
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I just can't help but feel that with seeing everywhere I look that the culture wars going on all over the place seems to be leading towards people becoming a "cookie cutter" society.

Especially for the British monarchy. You take away the institution of the monarchy which has encompassed British history for so very long and all its traditions and ceremonies and it's reminders of a constant continuation through the many years, and you end up with taking away a nation's sense of pride and belonging and even a sense of community, if you will.

If a group of people cannot look back and be reminded of the past that got them to where they are today in solidarity in wartime and in peacetime, how can we expect the people to pull together as a community to go forward with a sense of belonging to each other?

And here I thought that political correctness was taking things a bit too far sometimes.
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  #1535  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If a group of people cannot look back and be reminded of the past that got them to where they are today in solidarity in wartime and in peacetime, how can we expect the people to pull together as a community to go forward with a sense of belonging to each other?
We can't. Take it from someone who had to live to their 30s to find out the full extent of the programme meant to deprive us from such a past after the local Communists established their bloodied regime supported by the Soviet army almost 80 years ago. They literally rewrote the words of poems, songs and hymns inspiring something of a national pride, including feats of arms so we could be all love and peace with our neighbours who, by the laws of history, happened to be the enemy at the battlefield. Just like literally everywhere, at every time in the history of this broad world.

The effects are still felt today and they ain't pretty.
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  #1536  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:34 AM
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I agree, this political correctness thing is going too far. We cannot whitewash history, history is what it is and we have to accept it.
In Portugal, there have also been controversial situations because of these cultural wars.
It's very sad these things that happen.
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  #1537  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:39 AM
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I don't think we need to erase history but I completely get why some don't understand why some aspects seem to still be celebrated. Like with the statues being removed. I got why people wanted them gone.

There are feelings about the monarchy and many of youth question why in 2021 we still have one, Why are you paying for a extremely wealthy family to continue living in their extreme privilege while you can see many struggling to survive? That is a legit question and it will be asked more and more now.

So things like the email and the portrait seem small now... it can turn into much bigger things and they need to be prepared for it.
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  #1538  
Old 06-09-2021, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post

I think it would have happened without the Sussexes but they've certainly thrown jet engine on the fire.
I think that's entirely fair comment.

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-57409743


‘Members of Magdalen College Middle Common Room (MCR) deemed the image a symbol of "recent colonial history".’

The question is why do they view it this way? Why not as a symbol of the class system? Or as a lack of legitimate democratic choice in picking the head of state? What has recent colonial history got to with anything?

In the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter what a few students do. It’s very interesting though that traditional criticisms of the monarchy have now be joined by these new ones. I seem to remember a certain couple making ill-informed remarks about the Commonwealth not that long ago. To blame them for this particular incident would of course be absurd but their unhelpful contributions to the public forum are definitely seized on by certain groups here in Britain. The have undoubtedly muddied the waters.

If the “young” want a republic then they’re welcome to one. They’ll have to wait for the rest of us to go first though. And in the meantime perhaps these sort of people could start by being less abusive.
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  #1539  
Old 06-09-2021, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
I think that's entirely fair comment.

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-57409743


‘Members of Magdalen College Middle Common Room (MCR) deemed the image a symbol of "recent colonial history".’

The question is why do they view it this way? Why not as a symbol of the class system? Or as a lack of legitimate democratic choice in picking the head of state? What has recent colonial history got to with anything?

In the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter what a few students do. It’s very interesting though that traditional criticisms of the monarchy have now be joined by these new ones. I seem to remember a certain couple making ill-informed remarks about the Commonwealth not that long ago. To blame them for this particular incident would of course be absurd but their unhelpful contributions to the public forum are definitely seized on by certain groups here in Britain. The have undoubtedly muddied the waters.

If the “young” want a republic then they’re welcome to one. They’ll have to wait for the rest of us to go first though. And in the meantime perhaps these sort of people could start by being less abusive.



From what I understand, the decision to remove the Queen's portrait from the Common Room was not due to republicanism, but rather to cater for students from former British colonies who felt uncomfortable with the Queen's image, which they associate with their countries' colonial past. That is fair to a certain extent as in many countries in Africa for example, which were still colonies during part of the Queen's reign, portraits of the Queen were likely common as symbols of British sovereignty over those territories.



I imagine the same association will not be made with future portraits of King Charles III, King William V, or King George VII, so there will be no reason to remove them from the college (at least not based on the same reasoning).
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  #1540  
Old 06-09-2021, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
From what I understand, the decision to remove the Queen's portrait from the Common Room was not due to republicanism, but rather to cater for students from former British colonies who felt uncomfortable with the Queen's image, which they associate with their countries' colonial past. That is fair to a certain extent as in many countries in Africa for example, which were still colonies during part of the Queen's reign, portraits of the Queen were likely common as symbols of British sovereignty over those territories.
The BBC's version is more ambiguous, but the Telegraph report gives the impression that the vote was called out of concern that someone "might" object to the portrait in the future rather than because of existing objections from foreign students: "The vote was called in the interest of domestic and international students who might object to the imagery."
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