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  #4701  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I found that Royal Dukes use their "HRH" "instead" of His Grace, thus I believe there could be arguments that Harry indeed is "His Grace" when he doesn't use HRH. But who knows in the Uk...


Edit: Merriam-Webster's homepage claims as well that all dukes are "Your Grace" but the Royal dukes use their higher HRH instead.
So if Harry isn't using HRH he will be His Grace. But, as you say, it is the UK and this is Harry. He might just want to be known as Harry, The Duke of Sussex. I would love him to just use Harry Mountbatten-Windsor.
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  #4702  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:32 AM
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Just "Sir" is perfectly fine. Even for Charles or Philip. In daily practice everyone uses "Sir" instead of "Your Royal Highness". I understood Harry is and remains a Prince of the United Kingdom, is and remains a Duke of Sussex, is and remains in the line of succession. So essentially not very much is changing, just placing hinself in the periphery of the monarchy.

There is NO change in titles and style. Just in usage.
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  #4703  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Parliament has nothing to do with this title. The queen can do what she wants with HRH and Prince.

Parliament deals with peerages only.


My understand is the opposite it’s been spoken often over the last couple of weeks that an act of parliament is needed to remove Henry’s HRH and Princely status.
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  #4704  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
My understand is the opposite it’s been spoken often over the last couple of weeks that an act of parliament is needed to remove Henry’s HRH and Princely status.
No. Parliament only makes decisions about peerages as peers are part of British Parliament. HRH and Prince title are regulated by Letters patents from the queen.
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  #4705  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
No. Parliament only makes decisions about peerages as peers are part of British Parliament. HRH and Prince title are regulated by Letters patents from the queen.
Doesn't the Title Deprivation Act of 1917, show that parliament can remove HRHs and Prince Title?
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  #4706  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Doesn't the Title Deprivation Act of 1917, show that parliament can remove HRHs and Prince Title?

Parliament can do whatever it wants in the UK, because there is no written constitution and Parliament is sovereign (even more so after Brexit). Parliament could even abolish the monarchy or all peerages if it wanted to.


Of course, the Queen is also part of Parliament and she would ultimately have to consent thereto by giving the royal assent, which she and all her ancestors have been doing uninterruptedly since 1707. And, based on recent precedent, a major decision such as abolishing the monarchy wouldn't be taken without a popular referendum.
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  #4707  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Doesn't the Title Deprivation Act of 1917, show that parliament can remove HRHs and Prince Title?
This act is firstly about peerages.
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  #4708  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
So if Harry isn't using HRH he will be His Grace. But, as you say, it is the UK and this is Harry. He might just want to be known as Harry, The Duke of Sussex. I would love him to just use Harry Mountbatten-Windsor.

Buckingham Palace appears to have issued a statement to the press corps - because the information is included in most of the articles covering details of the agreement which were left out of the official statement - that the couple will be known as "Harry, Duke of Sussex" and "Meghan, Duchess of Sussex" once the agreement goes into effect in spring 2020. (One correspondent cited it as "Harry, The Duke of Sussex", but he seems to be the exception to the rule.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51107687

It is indeed a departure from the customary usages for British dukes, but it may be a more practical decision taking into account the couple's plans to work in North America. I suppose many Americans and Canadians would find it easier to recognize "Harry" and "Meghan" than "His/Her Grace".

A second possibility, if the expectation is that Harry will also stop using his Prince title (which is yet to be officially confirmed), is that the guidance on calling him "Harry, Duke of Sussex" may be intended to guide the media away from calling him "Prince Harry".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Doesn't the Title Deprivation Act of 1917, show that parliament can remove HRHs and Prince Title?
As Mbruno noted, it can indeed, but if the monarch takes the initiative then Parliament's assent is not required. British monarchs have customarily conferred or removed HRH/HH and Prince(ss) titles without referring the matter to Parliament, although on some occasions the government has been consulted.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...e_highness.htm
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  #4709  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
This act is firstly about peerages.

But it also affected titles or dignities conferred by LPs or royal warrants and not linked to a peerage, for example HRH and the dignity of prince. In fact,at least one grandson in male line of Queen Victoria who was an HRH and a British prince under the LPs of 1917 ceased to be so in the UK:


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  #4710  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Buckingham Palace appears to have issued a statement to the press corps - because the information is included in most of the articles covering details of the agreement which were left out of the official statement - that the couple will be known as "Harry, Duke of Sussex" and "Meghan, Duchess of Sussex" once the agreement goes into effect in spring 2020. (One correspondent cited it as "Harry, The Duke of Sussex", but he seems to be the exception to the rule.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51107687

It is indeed a departure from the customary usages for British dukes, but it may be a more practical decision taking into account the couple's plans to work in North America. I suppose many Americans and Canadians would find it easier to recognize "Harry" and "Meghan" than "His/Her Grace".

A second possibility, if the expectation is that Harry will also stop using his Prince title (which is yet to be officially confirmed), is that the guidance on calling him "Harry, Duke of Sussex" may be intended to guide the media away from calling him "Prince Harry".




As Mbruno noted, it can indeed, but if the monarch takes the initiative then Parliament's assent is not required. British monarchs have customarily conferred or removed HRH/HH and Prince(ss) titles without referring the matter to Parliament, although on some occasions the government has been consulted.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...e_highness.htm
the queen can remove HRH and Prince titles but not peerages. She could say that Harry is not now a prince or an HRH but to remove the dukedom, it would have to go through parliament.
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  #4711  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:33 AM
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Yes, precisely. The issue was whether the monarch would need to go through Parliament to hypothetically remove HRH and Prince.


Here is the Titles Deprivation Act and the Order in Council naming the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, the Duke of Cumberland, and the Duke of Brunswick. I agree with those who read the Act to cover all British dignities.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...vation1917.htm

Of course, the usage of the Titles Deprivation Act and the Letters Patent of 1917 on the British Royal Family's German relatives had no practical effect, as they and their descendants continued to call themselves HRH and HH until this day (even if those predicates were also legally abolished in Germany in 1919).
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  #4712  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Yes, precisely. The issue was whether the monarch would need to go through Parliament to hypothetically remove HRH and Prince.


H 1919).
No, she wouldn't. She took away the HRH's of Diana and sarah York without going through Parliament...
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  #4713  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:37 AM
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Meghan Duchess of Sussex, is the title she would hold [until any remarriage] should she Divorce...

Interestingly EVEN the Duchess of Windsor was 'her Grace'. Meghan. Duchess of Sussex hasn't that...
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  #4714  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, she wouldn't. She took away the HRH's of Diana and sarah York without going through Parliament...
If you go back and read other posts, Spheno and I were having a discussion in regards to who removes HRH's.

Tatiana Maria, has provided information in regards to how the Deprivation Act works in the Monarchs right to remove.

The Queen can remove HRHs and the title Prince/ss, without parliament. However the 1917 Deprivation act shows that parliament can do it as well.
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  #4715  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:56 AM
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To me it would have been better for HMQ to issue a new Patent accelerating the inheritance of the Sussex titles to Lord Dumbarton and granting the peerage of Duke of Windsor to Harry for life, establishing that title as the designation used for resigned Royals in the future.
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  #4716  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:59 AM
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I can't think of any instance in British history where the holder of a peerage is called Harry, Duke of Sussex (for example), just as if he was a widow or a divorced woman.

Truly weird.
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  #4717  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
To me it would have been better for HMQ to issue a new Patent accelerating the inheritance of the Sussex titles to Lord Dumbarton and granting the peerage of Duke of Windsor to Harry for life, establishing that title as the designation used for resigned Royals in the future.
I don't believe that Harry would want his son to have a peerage. They haven't even used the courtesy title for him.. and he may grow up a Canadian citizen and a peerage would hardly be suitable...
I don't suppose the queen would like the idea of Duke of Windsor, which is a somewhat tainted title, going to her grandson.. whom she loves in spite of probably being very upset with him.
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  #4718  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I can't think of any instance in British history where the holder of a peerage is called Harry, Duke of Sussex (for example), just as if he was a widow or a divorced woman.

Truly weird.
It is weird. But I guess they are really driving home the point that Harry has divorced himself from the BRF. It's telling how they view him.
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  #4719  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
It is weird. But I guess they are really driving home the point that Harry has divorced himself from the BRF. It's telling how they view him.
Or perhaps they dotn want to say he is "his Grace the DUke of Sussex".. when he is still HRH... if they are taking on a more informal role, Harry DUke of Sussex seems OK
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  #4720  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Or perhaps they dotn want to say he is "his Grace the DUke of Sussex".. when he is still HRH... if they are taking on a more informal role, Harry DUke of Sussex seems OK
They could just say The Duke of Sussex but they aren't. He's being styled as a divorced/widowed woman. It's odd.
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