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  #961  
Old 11-28-2020, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
The Crown seems to have generated quite a lot of negative reaction in the UK. It's gone from harmless historical fiction based loosely on real events to divisive melodrama.

It seems to have lost its way. A great pity because the first series in particular was a real tour de force. And the episode on Aberfan (series 2) was mezmerizing drama. A real standout.



Seasons 1 and 2 with Claire Foy (focusing on the young Elizabeth) were very well received, not least because, fiction aside, they generally showed the Queen in a very positive light. Furthermore, it felt like genuine period drama being about events that took place 70 years ago. After the time gap between Seasons 2 and 3, I think the series went downhill mostly. Moving closer to the present time and focusing on events many people have living memories of and still care deeply about (I mean, the War of the Wales specifically), I suppose it was inevitable that the writers/producers would be tempted to turn The Crown into a sensationalist soap opera.
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  #962  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This isn't the thread to discuss this of course, so sorry, mods.

No, I can't see a major political crisis looming in Britain in the foreseeable future. What I can see however is apathy and disinterest in the monarchy continuing through the years, especially among the under-forties and many migrants from republican backgrounds, until in the end, perhaps in another thirty or forty years, nobody from any age group really cares any more. That may be even worse that any devastating political crisis involving the monarchy.

(And an unpopular monarch in the future won't improve the above scenario.)
That's a possible scenario certainly. I tend to view it from the other side - that apathy & indifference is actually the monarchy's friend in the long term. A lot less interest might well be its saviour. There's simply too much media scrutiny sometimes. And that's not healthy for the people in the institution for one.
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  #963  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
The Crown seems to have generated quite a lot of negative reaction in the UK. It's gone from harmless historical fiction based loosely on real events to divisive melodrama.

It seems to have lost its way. A great pity because the first series in particular was a real tour de force. And the episode on Aberfan (series 2) was mezmerizing drama. A real standout.
That's probably good news for the BRF; that the public doesn't go along with the portrayal in The Crown.
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  #964  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
That's probably good news for the BRF; that the public doesn't go along with the portrayal in The Crown.
Yes I hadn't thought of it that way. I'm not sure what the balance of views are across the country.
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  #965  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It's not Netflix that is actually the culprit here. They're just the middle guy aka streaming service. They pick up programming and air it. i don't believe that the Sussex contract with Netfilx will have anything to do with the content of "The Crown" whatsoever. "The Crown" would be the same whether aired on Netflix, Hulu, BBC or any other company that offers programming.

Harry and Meghan's "deal" with Netflix is in regards to their own "brand" of programming they hope to stream to the public via Netflix. I think Harry would be wise enough to totally avoid any connection with his programming to the BRF. I just don't think he'd ever stoop that low.
Morgan is the primary culprit, but IMO Netflix isn't innocent. If they weren't aware before now, they are certainly well aware now that this show's fictionalizing of real people is problematic. They have received, I'm sure, tons of feedback demanding "warnings" before episodes air, and..........nothing. Now they react to fans' support of Camilla by wanting more fictionalization - this time of William and Harry? Which will garner huge ratings no matter how falsified it is? No, Netflix isn't just some middle man....
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  #966  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Yes I hadn't thought of it that way. I'm not sure what the balance of views are across the country.
The main problem and the most outrageous reactions are, as always, from the US.
Nothing new, we have been there before.
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  #967  
Old 11-28-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Morgan is the primary culprit, but IMO Netflix isn't innocent. If they weren't aware before now, they are certainly well aware now that this show's fictionalizing of real people is problematic. They have received, I'm sure, tons of feedback demanding "warnings" before episodes air, and..........nothing. Now they react to fans' support of Camilla by wanting more fictionalization - this time of William and Harry? Which will garner huge ratings no matter how falsified it is? No, Netflix isn't just some middle man....
They are there to make money, unless they think that they'll lose viewers, they're not going ot put on warnings or make any changes in the show...
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  #968  
Old 11-28-2020, 05:34 PM
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Is there a possibility that Peter Morgan and The Crown's production team are mainly targeting at a young impressionable audience (under 30), who are more likely to be unfamiliar with The Royal Family or role of constitutional monarchy? There are also claims that The Crown is targeting at US audiences more so than the UK or even Commonwealth countries.

Speaking of Peter Morgan extending into Season 6, it would not surprised me if all of The Queen's grandchildren gets featured, particularly if the program delves into the 2000s. If that is the case, I hope Lady Louise Windsor and James, Viscount Severn only appeared as infants or other non-speaking roles in the background.
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  #969  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Morgan is the primary culprit, but IMO Netflix isn't innocent. If they weren't aware before now, they are certainly well aware now that this show's fictionalizing of real people is problematic. They have received, I'm sure, tons of feedback demanding "warnings" before episodes air, and..........nothing. Now they react to fans' support of Camilla by wanting more fictionalization - this time of William and Harry? Which will garner huge ratings no matter how falsified it is? No, Netflix isn't just some middle man....
Netflix will air anything that generates huge ratings.
If there's enough controversy, they will put up warnings, as they did for the episodes showing bulimia.
Otherwise, they will merely sit back and enjoy the numbers.
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  #970  
Old 11-28-2020, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Netflix will air anything that generates huge ratings.
If there's enough controversy, they will put up warnings, as they did for the episodes showing bulimia.
Otherwise, they will merely sit back and enjoy the numbers.
It's a good thing then that I don't get it and that I've never watched a minute of Netflix.
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  #971  
Old 11-28-2020, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
This is a fantastic article....I am worried about Charles. Despite my loathing for my fellow Americans’ attitude towards him, I know that it’s irrelevant. However, it’s not irrelevant for the British people. The only perhaps mitigating factor is that the people most likely to believe this garbage and hate Charles are ones who already don’t like him.



Simon Jenkins, columnist for the Guardian:



.....




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/26/w...t-Fiction.html
I don't think people "hate" Charles, but some don't approve of some things he did.
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  #972  
Old 11-28-2020, 09:59 PM
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I’m constantly reminded now why I love Hugo Vickers. My parents are watching this ****show as I speak; I only hope that my reminders that this is twisted fiction got through.

The article is very much worth reading...

Quote:
Prince Philip knocks at the door and Diana – portrayed to great effect in the series by Emma Corrin – tells him she is in a 'dark, loveless cave' and that she wants to 'break away'.

Yet the response from her father-in-law is menacing; he warns her that it won't end well if she does any such thing.

Diana replies: 'I hope that isn't a threat, Sir.'

Who can be in any doubt that this fictional conversation is a thinly veiled and chilling reference to Diana's impending death.

It supports the scarcely credible rumours, still fuelled by the internet, that Diana's fatal car crash in a tunnel in Paris in 1997 was a murderous 'hit' ordered by Prince Philip and designed to look like an accident.

It's hard to imagine a more hurtful allegation than painting Philip as a mafioso bent on bumping off a fragile daughter-in-law.

....

The series ends in 1990 with the Royal Family heading for Sandringham for Christmas in a convoy of Rolls-Royces.

The customary dead game birds are hanging up, presumably to stress to the viewers what a brutal bunch the family is.

And so follows the most outrageous calumny of all, Philip's thinly veiled threat to Diana.

Why does this matter? It matters because this country's relationship between Government and Monarchy has always been a delicate balance.

It matters because the reputation of the future King ought not to be sealed in the mind of the average Netflix viewer as a twisted, warped and bitter individual.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-better.html
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  #973  
Old 11-28-2020, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Seasons 1 and 2 with Claire Foy (focusing on the young Elizabeth) were very well received, not least because, fiction aside, they generally showed the Queen in a very positive light. Furthermore, it felt like genuine period drama being about events that took place 70 years ago. After the time gap between Seasons 2 and 3, I think the series went downhill mostly. Moving closer to the present time and focusing on events many people have living memories of and still care deeply about (I mean, the War of the Wales specifically), I suppose it was inevitable that the writers/producers would be tempted to turn The Crown into a sensationalist soap opera.
The first two and latest two seasons could be two different shows, and not just because of the time jump and change in actors. The first two seasons were still highly fictionalized, but I think overall it was a positive portrayal of the Queen and her transition from a young woman with the weight of the world unexpectedly thrust onto her shoulders into a capable and strong monarch.

The latest two seasons feel like a soap opera, and are opening some still very-real wounds that people have around the Wales’s marriage. I also don’t think that the Queen is portrayed in a particularly positive light and I think she’s almost at times become a side character to members of her family with more “interesting” stories (Margaret last season, Charles and Diana this season). I’m watching with my parents and I’m having to constantly remind them that most of it is fictionalized or embellished.
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  #974  
Old 11-29-2020, 04:31 AM
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Cultural Secretary Intervenes on The Crown & Calling for Warnings/Disclaimers

The Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Secretary, Oliver Dowden has told The Mail on Sunday that there should be a disclaimer (or like health warning) in the beginning of each episode stating that there are fictional scenes

Quote:
Oliver Dowden last night demanded that Netflix make clear The Crown is 'fiction'.

In a dramatic intervention, the Culture Secretary added his voice to mounting concern that fabricated scenes in the drama series were so damaging to the Royal Family that viewers should be warned at the start of each episode that it was not 'fact'.

'It's a beautifully produced work of fiction, so as with other TV productions, Netflix should be very clear at the beginning it is just that,' he told The Mail on Sunday.

'Without this, I fear a generation of viewers who did not live through these events may mistake fiction for fact.'

Mr Dowden is expected to write to the streaming giant to formally request that it adds what others have called a 'health warning' at the start of each episode.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-fiction.html

Sky news and ITV news have picked this up
https://news.sky.com/story/the-crown...cious-12145719
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-28/...ecretary-fears
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  #975  
Old 11-29-2020, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
The Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Secretary, Oliver Dowden has told The Mail on Sunday that there should be a disclaimer (or like health warning) in the beginning of each episode stating that there are fictional scenes


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-fiction.html

Sky news and ITV news have picked this up
https://news.sky.com/story/the-crown...cious-12145719
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-28/...ecretary-fears
There was a recent DM article expanding on this subject, how many historians, etc..think there needs to be a warning prior to episodes airing. I fear that Netflix doesn’t give a hoot - and I don’t expect any changes. I AM encouraged that so many are speaking out, defending the BRF when they can’t themselves.
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  #976  
Old 11-29-2020, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I AM encouraged that so many are speaking out, defending the BRF when they can’t themselves.

It's my experience that people believe what they want to believe, and disregard any facts that contradict that.
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  #977  
Old 11-29-2020, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
It's my experience that people believe what they want to believe, and disregard any facts that contradict that.
Exactly
And "the Crown" is just giving that : an alternative, binary universe with a vilain and a victim, with no subtility whatsoever. A dangerous simplification game, easy to understand and digest.
But Life, the real one, isn't black nor white. And we all know that the truth is always in the grey zone. But of course it demands a touch of critical spirit and contextual curiosity. We can all agree that the vast majority of the viewers of "the Crown" will not bother to overtake what Netflix is giving them : a good ol' drama.
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  #978  
Old 11-29-2020, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
It's my experience that people believe what they want to believe, and disregard any facts that contradict that.
I agree. In many ways, this makes me think of “confirmation bias”.

Quote:
Confirmation Bias is the tendency to look for information that supports, rather than rejects, one’s preconceptions, typically by interpreting evidence to confirm existing beliefs while rejecting or ignoring any conflicting data (American Psychological Association).
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  #979  
Old 11-30-2020, 12:57 PM
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I don't see why Netflix would even bother putting in a disclaimer. If you cannot understand that this is a show BASED on events and real life people and not a documentary, you do not live in the real world, to be very frank.

Secondly, they hardly made the Diana/Charles storyline up did they? The material was given by Diana and Charles themselves! The showrunners didn't have to crack their heads here to come up with a story. It's all there. It's a fact that they fought against one another for public favor and used the media to gain it.

So now being all boo-hoo? Grow up man, the 80's and 90's were an absolute mess for them. Peter Morgan is only using what's right in front of him and turned it into a drama. Will we make an equal fuss when season 6 show how Charles gained favor back after showing the world how devoted he was to his son? Doubt it.
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  #980  
Old 11-30-2020, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
I don't see why Netflix would even bother putting in a disclaimer. If you cannot understand that this is a show BASED on events and real life people and not a documentary, you do not live in the real world, to be very frank.

Secondly, they hardly made the Diana/Charles storyline up did they? The material was given by Diana and Charles themselves! The showrunners didn't have to crack their heads here to come up with a story. It's all there. It's a fact that they fought against one another for public favor and used the media to gain it.

So now being all boo-hoo? Grow up man, the 80's and 90's were an absolute mess for them. Peter Morgan is only using what's right in front of him and turned it into a drama. Will we make an equal fuss when season 6 show how Charles gained favor back after showing the world how devoted he was to his son? Doubt it.
where did he "get favour back"? Charles' approval figures are relatively low for the future kng.. He has tried for years to work hard at his job and since Di's death, to take care of the boys....
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