Josefine
Majesty
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,520
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- Sweden
During the time when a Bernadotte have been on the throne there has benen 11 at the maximum
But Sweden is a liberal country though, when it comes to this issue. During the last five decades, the status of the illegitimate have increased. I don't even think a royal having an illegitimate would raise too many eyebrows anymore.
To be a successor to the Swedish throne the child has to be born in wedlock:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_Swedish_throne
Meaning, if any member of the SRF has a child that was a result of a hook up, fling, long term affair without benefit of clergy at the end is ineligible for the throne.
Shouldn't HM The Queen Dowager of Denmark, born HRH princess Lovisa of Sweden, also be on that list? I would guess that she had her father's permission to marry the future king of Denmark, and thus still be in the Order of Succession, if females had been permitted then. If so, wouldn't all of her children and her grandchildren (in 1916 eight children and nine more grandchildren than the four on the list above) also be in the Order of Succession? Among those children and grandchildren would have been the king of Denmark, the king of Norway, the crown prince of Denmark (the future husband of Ingrid), the crown prince of Norway (the future husband of Märtha) and the wife of the duke of Västergötland.I wonder what the list would look like if girls were includedIn the bernadotte era as most there 11 in line to the throne
31th october 1916, prince Carl Johan is born
HRH The Crown Prince, Duke of Skåne (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1982)
HRH Duke of Västerbotten, (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1906)
HRH Duke of Uppland (prince Sigvard born 1907)
HRH Princess Ingrid (born 1910)
HRH Duke of Halland (prince Bertil born 1912)
HRH Duke of Dalarna (prince Carl Johan born 1916)
HRH Duke of Södermanland (prince Wilhelm born 1984)
HRH Duke of Småland (prince Lennart born 1909)
HRH Duke of Västmanland (prince Erik born 1989)
HRH Duke of Västergötland (prince Carl born 1861)
HRH Princess Margaretha (bron 1899)
HRH Princess Märtha (born 1901)
HRH Princess Astrid (born 1905)
HRH Duke of Östergötland (prince Carl jr born 1911)
HRH Duke of Närke (prince Eugen born [-]1965[/-]1865)
For so many years it was just the kings 3 children,how it continues to grow!
The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.
I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.
When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):
- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar
- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ
- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ
on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow
1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland
And next year an other prince or princess will be born
[/QUOTE]I suspect Madeleine's children will eventually be dropped from the line of succession as Chris won't agree to move back permanently to Sweden when the children reach school age. Then I assume they will lose the titles of "prince/princess of Sweden", being probably known instead as "Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte", without the HRH style and the respective duchy, but that is just speculative thinking on my part.
Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between 1932 February 20th and 1934 march 8th
The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.
I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.
When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):
- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar
- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ
- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ
And no, Prince Daniel having added Bernadotte to his name doesn't count.
Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden, did not transfer his middle name of Westling to his children, who are only Bernadottes.
I think with so many successors to the Silver Throne the Riksdag will take matters into its own hands about who gets HRH and who gets appanage for tax and other financial considerations. As of now there are seven members of the king's immediate family that do not have a chance to ascend to the throne unless there is a horrible tragedy. I can see the Riskdag saying no appanage for the Prince Family and the Princess Family with exception that Carl Philip will receive money from the government when he would have to act as regent during Estelle's minority. The law was drastically changed in 1979 to take the heir apparent title away from CP.
In name maybe, but by blood Oscar carries on the Westling line. Simply because his father is one.
Carl Philip and now Alexander and Gabriel are the only ones able to carry the bloodline back to the start of the House of Bernadotte.
That's as simple as it is, just look at the family tree.
I don't think I understand this. If it's blood that's important, then the child has 50/50 from the mother and father. The "blood line" would then be equally valid no matter if it's the father or mothers last name on the paper.
A rather archaic concept that does not take into account the law. With your reasoning the houses of Habsburg, Romanov, Orange-Nassau, Nassau-Weilburg etc. do not exist.
Crown Princess Victoria is a Bernadotte not a Sommerlath
in the same logic Princess Estelle & Prince Oscar are Westling not Bernadotte
Well, actually after the death of Queen Carola of Saxony in 1907 and then the death of her cousin's son Grand Duke Friedrich II of Baden in 1928 the main line of inheritance from the House of Holstein-Gottorp went to his sister Victoria, by then Queen of Sweden, uniting the two royal lines.That may be the opinion of the poster, but it is based on a fantasy and not on reality. There is no legal basis for his claim. With such an opinion one ignores that our societies are ruled by the law and not on -what is now an outdated- concept of 'genealogy'. If we would deny law all together, there would not be a house of Bernadotte as the Baden family would be the genealogical heirs of the house of Wasa.
Likewise, if we deny the law, there would be no house of Orange -or Amsberg if you want- in the Netherlands but our ruler would be King Felipe VI and there would be no house of Windsor but the Duke of Bavaria would be ruling over England and Scotland.
It may be nice to daydream about such matters and it may be an interesting work-out in royal genealogy, but it has nothing to do with the reality in which we live. And that reality is that the main branch of the house of Bernadotte will continue through the crown princess and her offspring.
You have the right to that opinion. I would say that most swedes sees the thing quite differently. Victoria is as much a Sommerlath as she is a Bernadotte, and Estelle/Oscar are just as much Bernadotte as they are Westling.
It really doesn't matter who's last name you have - you are still equal parts from your father and mother. That is reflected in the name laws here in Sweden. Whey you get married, there are several options. Both can keep their last names. Both can have hers or his name. Or you can chose a new last name (within some boundaries). The question of last name isn't a big thing here.