General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 2: August 2009 - January 2011 - Page 7

sgl · #**121** 04-30-2010, 09:20 PM

It sounds like she had a fun night out with her friends. Good for her! Several other princesses have been seen going out with their friends (Mette-Marit, Marie-Chantal, Victoria). Crown Princess Mary was photographed in Verbier going out with her friends last year, so this isn't something that is off limits for the Danish princesses.

maria-olivia · #**122** 05-01-2010, 07:00 AM

Marie will always remain a french middle-class young women . I miss Alexandra.

isabelle 53 · #**123** 05-01-2010, 07:27 AM

Prince Joachim knows the customs and habits of the Danish court I suppose ...

if he allows Marie to go out with her friends is that he sees nothing wrong with that

rylt11 · #**124** 05-01-2010, 12:06 PM

Going shopping or to a luncheon with women friends is one thing. Attending a formal gala with an escort is also in the same category. Going to a private party at someone's home is also acceptable, as are public events which are considered one's royal duties.

However, nightclubbing which will consist of drinking and or dancing in a public place, etc. with no husband around, is not where a royal princess should be. This is all my personal opinion, nothing to do with the royal Danish standards, or whatever Joachim may or may not allow.

I just think it's unbecoming for her to be there like that. He should be there or neither should be there.

Lumutqueen · #**125** 05-01-2010, 12:10 PM

Would you say the same for Prince Joachim and Prince Frederik?
Are they allowed to go to nightclubs without their wives?

rylt11 · #**126** 05-01-2010, 12:15 PM

Yes. The other laissez-faire attitude sets precedents that may lead to difficulties later.

Far better to avoid what can become awkward later.

We've all read about Joaquim's issues with Alexandra. Hard to say who started what, or who did what, but it's best to stay away from trouble.

Earlier, when I stated that princesses should be with their husbands or families, I meant family escorts, not strictly their children.

To clarify the "yes." --- The same applies to Joachim and Frederik. No nightclubbing without spouse.

The reasons are obvious.

What conceivably be so important about being at a nightclub that the spouse isn't there. It isn't a summit meeting...

Lumutqueen · #**127** 05-01-2010, 12:23 PM

Well sorry, but your logic is stupid.
The reasons are obvious?
You think after 6 years of marriage, Prince Frederik is going to cheat on his wife in a nightclub?
You think Joachim is going to repeat whatever went wrong in his first marriage?
What if the spouse doesn't want to go out? Should the other be forced to stay at home, just because it is wrong to go out without your wife/husband.
You think very old-fashioned.

A wife/husband should be able to go out when he/she pleases without being accompanied by there other half. Next you'll tell me you think Marie should ask permission to go out.

avrilo · #**128** 05-01-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rylt11

Going shopping or to a luncheon with women friends is one thing. Attending a formal gala with an escort is also in the same category. Going to a private party at someone's home is also acceptable, as are public events which are considered one's royal duties.

However, nightclubbing which will consist of drinking and or dancing in a public place, etc. with no husband around, is not where a royal princess should be. This is all my personal opinion, nothing to do with the royal Danish standards, or whatever Joachim may or may not allow.

I just think it's unbecoming for her to be there like that. He should be there or neither should be there.

OMG! I think first you are being stubborn and secondly What is this?! 1900?. I respect your thinking but I don't agree with it at all, and if it works for you and your life then great; but I really think that things are different for the most of us.

What is important in a nightclub? Have you been to one? HAVE FUN WITH YOUR FRIENDS in a place designed for that because that is part of life too, come on!!. Where in the wedding vows you vow. I shall go to everywhere with you????

Marie and any other married woman (or for that matter person) can go out without their husband to anywhere they please, what is wrong in that? are they behaving like "easy women" or what? I don't really follow you on that.

Joachim doesn't have to allow or not allow anything since she is not his car or his horse or anything of his property but his companion in life. the most he can do is suggest this and that since she is a Princess, but at the end of the day she has a mind of her own.

I highly doubt anyone thinks poorly of Marie, because she took a night off. At her age I bet she knows how to behave, not only as princess but also as a mature woman. However, she is still young and for what we can see working hard, between being a mum and a princess that she deserved a nice night out with the friends she has made in her new country.

Sister Morphine · #**129** 05-01-2010, 12:46 PM

Seriously, the idea that a woman, princess or otherwise, can't ever go anywhere with someone who isn't their husband is extremely Victorian in its sensibility. I sincerely doubt Marie is bringing shame to the house of Laborde de Monpezat by going out with some friends, one of whom is a gay man.

Yes, she's a Princess. Where though, in her transformation from Marie Cavallier to HRH Princess Marie of Denmark, did she sign a piece of paper that says "I will only ever be seen in public with my husband, other members of his family, or my children"? How many other princesses, though blood or marriage, have we seen out with friends....no hubby in sight? Better yet, how many princes have we seen, out with friends....no wife in sight?

Saying that Marie should only be out with her husband is akin to saying she's his property.

Sister Morphine · #**130** 05-01-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Marie will always remain a french middle-class young women . I miss Alexandra.

What's wrong with being middle-class? Should women who marry into royal families only come from money? Frankly, I think it's great that she's middle-class.....she brings a different set of experiences with her than if she came from money and/or entitlement.

sgl · #**131** 05-01-2010, 12:59 PM

I agree with you, Sister Morphine. She is not his property, she is his wife. This is 2010, and she is an adult. If she chooses to visit a nightclub, it is not illegal, nor is it against any sort of rules in the royal court. Everyone needs friends around them for their well-being.

None of us were at that club. Whether there was drinking and dancing is irrelevant, IMO. All we have seen are photos of Marie entering the club with her friends. Judging her behavior at the club is pure speculation.

If she was drinking and dancing-so what? It is 2010...she's an adult, and it is not illegal for her to do these things. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

maria-olivia · #**132** 05-01-2010, 06:03 PM

In mine opinion middle-class means without background , this has nothing to do with money!

rylt11 · #**133** 05-01-2010, 06:42 PM

Of course she isn't his property, and this is 2010, but that doesn't keep people from making poor decisions. If you want to have an evening out with friends, far better to do it privately, not in a public night club.

Women, just like men, have every opportunity to make poor decisions, dress with poor taste, or do whatever they want as long as they aren't breaking the law.

Members of royal families have the same opportunities to make mistakes as anyone else. I just think she should have not done this. Period. Joaquim in a night club with men friends and no wife around would cause me to think the same.

Sorry if many in the forum find this old fashioned, but it's true that a nightclub is not a private club nor a private home, that liquor is normally served, and that many people go to them to meet others for a fun time.

I don't for one minute think that is what Marie was doing, but the atmosphere in nightclubs is certainly not the same as a private home or an official event.

Couldn't this same group be entertained elsewhere? Couldn't they have met elsewhere instead of publicly in the wide open view of the press, etc. Less than becoming, absolutely. I don't think the queen would have done the same.

Sister Morphine · #**134** 05-01-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

In mine opinion middle-class means without background , this has nothing to do with money!

So then what is this background Marie is supposed to have that she doesn't, and why is she worse off for not having it? Is she supposed to be more educated? Are her parents supposed to be important or well-connected?

When I hear "middle-class", I think of someone in a solid, comfortable living....neither rich nor poor. Thinking that she should be anything but reeks of snobbery to me.

Sister Morphine · #**135** 05-01-2010, 06:54 PM

If she wants to spend time with her friends, she can't leave her home? She can't go to a restaurant or a club or a store or any place public, since she's not with Joachim?

What?

Why don't you just put a chain around her ankle and stick her in a cage until Joachim has to go somewhere and needs an escort. Because that's essentially what you're advocating and it's kind of degrading. The idea that Marie can't leave her home to see friends, lest she been somewhere by a person with a camera, regardless of what it is she's doing or who she's with, is just.......what? The same goes for Joachim, apparently.

rylt11 · #**136** 05-01-2010, 08:58 PM

You've missed the point. A nightclub at night is very different from having time with one's friends.

She has a certain place in the social hierarchy of Denmark and should remember this. She is not Marie Cavallier any more. There is a difference.

It has nothing to do with being or not being Joaquim's property. It has to do with understanding the place she now holds in Danish society. It requires a certain amount of discretion with regard to how you carry on your activities.

To pretend she is a regular person, in spite of privileged status, living behind locked gates, walls, with many servants, entering a room with pomp and circumstance, being chauffered around, receiving flowers from curtsying children, all of that puts her in a different social place which she needs to remember when she is out in public.

She does hold a special rank and it is unbecoming for her to go on socializing in nightclubs with men without her prince around.

Why didn't Joaquim attend this outing - where was he?

Sister Morphine · #**137** 05-01-2010, 09:25 PM

Actually I think it's you who has missed the point.

It's 2010. Women, including princesses, can socialize with whom they want, provided the important people in their lives don't care. Clearly, Joachim allows his wife to go out with her friends to wherever they feel like going and doesn't have a problem with it. That's all that really matters. Also, when you call Joachim "her prince", you make him sound her keeper, which again is degrading. As though she was his property or someone she's supposed to report back to. I don't know if you're understanding exactly how degrading you're sounding.

And believe it or not, going out to a nightclub with friends and having a good time with your friends aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible to do both and many people do. Shocking, I know.

And maybe Joachim didn't go with because he didn't want to. Is there a problem with that? Are people not allowed to go out without their spouses in your world? She's a princess, but she's not in a damn glass cage. My word, it's the 21st century now. Either roll with the times or the times will roll over you.

rylt11 · #**138** 05-01-2010, 10:06 PM

I refer to Joaquim as her prince as a result of the references they made during their engagement interview where it was stated that although he was a prince asking for Marie's hand in marriage, that her family considered her their "little princess", their "jewel".

The Duchess of York, Diana, Stephanie, and others know the problems that arise when they start seeing male friends with no husband around. It can lead to problems.

Though I know that many will consider the attitude old fashioned, it is better to shore up the marriage than let little incidents like this to set precedents that could lead to unnecessary issues later on.

It has nothing to do with being shackled or being degraded. It just makes common sense that married women should watch what they do when it comes to male company at night. Royal married women have an especially delicate role to respect - it all comes with the special place in society that they hold.

Pretending that they are just plain folks is naive. Public figures need to be extra mindful of what they do, as a sense of respect for the position they hold.

Again, I remind you readers, that she is no longer Marie Cavallier, put the princess of the realm.

Sister Morphine · #**139** 05-01-2010, 10:37 PM

Why do you assume that because Diana, Stephanie and Sarah were unfaithful, Marie will be as well? Do you think that if a woman has friends who are men (not including her spouse), she is automatically going to sleep with any number of them? Because that's sure what it sounds like to me. And that's really insulting -- that a married woman can't be friends with a man she's not married to because she might screw them. If you're secure in your relationship, the other person can hang out with as many members of the opposite sex as they want and it won't mean a damn thing. Jealousy and paranoia will destroy a relationship faster than anything else. If you have self-control, you can associate with whomever you want and there's no threat to anyone's relationship. Just because SOME married women, princesses or otherwise, couldn't keep their legs closed doesn't mean ALL married women, princesses or otherwise, will share the same fate. Not only is that insulting to married women everywhere, it's insulting to Marie, whom you're essentially calling a slut. That's not old-fashioned, it's misogynistic.

Marie being a princess means jack squat to this conversation. She did nothing wrong, she behaved in no unseemly, disgusting or embarrassing way and the only person who appears to have their hackles up because of it is you. Not her husband or in her in-laws. And last I checked, their opinions and those of other Danes are the ones that count. She has a title in front of her name, but it doesn't make her any better than anyone else and she still puts her pants on one leg a time, just like everyone else. She has duties and responsibilities of course, but we've heard nothing of her shirking those duties and responsibilities or doing anything else that might embarrass her family. So what exactly is your problem? That's she's not living in the 1890s?

sgl · #**140** 05-01-2010, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rylt11

I refer to Joaquim as her prince as a result of the references they made during their engagement interview where it was stated that although he was a prince asking for Marie's hand in marriage, that her family considered her their "little princess", their "jewel".

The Duchess of York, Diana, Stephanie, and others know the problems that arise when they start seeing male friends with no husband around. It can lead to problems.

Though I know that many will consider the attitude old fashioned, it is better to shore up the marriage than let little incidents like this to set precedents that could lead to unnecessary issues later on.

It has nothing to do with being shackled or being degraded. It just makes common sense that married women should watch what they do when it comes to male company at night. Royal married women have an especially delicate role to respect - it all comes with the special place in society that they hold.

Pretending that they are just plain folks is naive. Public figures need to be extra mindful of what they do, as a sense of respect for the position they hold.

Again, I remind you readers, that she is no longer Marie Cavallier, put the princess of the realm.

Denmark is not a country where its public places are segregated by gender. If she were to go out to dinner with her friends, there would be men and alcohol in the restaurant. Many people throughout the world go to nightclubs for reasons other than trying to hook up. I have gone to clubs many, many times with my friends. It is a bit insulting to assume that just because one goes to a club, they are trying to hook up with someone (titled or otherwise). They are fun places to dance, and they are a big part of city life in western society.

It is highly speculative to say that it was unseemly. Nobody knows how she spent her evening. It is impossible to know from looking at a couple of photos of a person entering a club. In the photos, she is with Dennis Knudsen (a gay man) and her girlfriends. That is not enough evidence to say she was with "male company at night". Yes, Mr. Knudsen is male, but I really don't think he will try to steal the princess away from her prince

Marie is not the first princess to go out to a club with her friends. Her sister in law has gone out to clubs without her husband a few times, and it hasn't been a big deal.

Marie is a modern woman; a princess who is doing a good job in her role (in my opinion), and is adored by her husband and baby, whom she both clearly loves.