Death and Funeral of HRH The Infanta Pilar,Duchess of Badajoz. January 2020


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It was fantastic to see Princess Beatrix there and also to see a good turnout of non-reigning royals; too.
 
lula said:
She is on the side, with the children and grandchildren of Infanta Pilar. Infanta Margarita now uses a wheelchair, so sometimes she is placed where is more comfortable, without being so strict with the protocol.
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Ah, thanks, that makes sense.
 
I suppose the young blond woman that accompanied Archduke Georg must be one of his daughters (Sofia or Ildiko IIRC)?
 
So the king and queen greet the old king and queen and p Beatrice and ignore the sisters? Is that normal?
 
This makes me so sad but seeing the array of non-reigning royals who attended also made me glad. May the late Infanta rest in peace.

I don't see Princess Alexia of Greece and Denmark in any photos. Was expecting Princess Birgitta of Sweden, Princess of Hohenzollern to show up too.
 
Frelinghighness said:
So the king and queen greet the old king and queen and p Beatrice and ignore the sisters? Is that normal?
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Don Juan Carlos, Doña Sofía and Princess Beatrix are the former equals of today's King and Queen and all three are official members of a Royal House. It made sense that they were officially greeted.
 
HRH Princess Irene of Greece and Queen Margarita of Bulgaria (a cousin of Infanta Pilar's husband) were there too.
 
HRH Princess Beatrix ,HRH The Infanta Elena and HRH The Infanta Cristina

https://images.app.goo.gl/RsPLnE1HVqZkuH9w7

H.M.King Juan Carlos comforts his niece

https://images.app.goo.gl/EnjV6YaHUWyoCjhq6

https://images.app.goo.gl/1czsfQ5RK21stc9TA


HRH Princess Beatriz de Orleans

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y8pN2W2MQuuPyoQZ9

Don Fernando Gómez-Acebo and Queen Letizia

https://images.app.goo.gl/rQw1uKAHaEpUqYrJ6


HRH Kalina of Bulgaria and her husband Kitín Muñoz

https://images.app.goo.gl/8oWnPnGdHHCNb6aw9

HRH Princess Cristina Borbón dos Sicilias and Pedro López Quesada

https://images.app.goo.gl/wBcKm5ds2ek77EUL7

Baroness Bertha Von Stenge and Helene Kirby Bagration

https://images.app.goo.gl/NdyDXAi6TQ4EB7hR7

The Duke of Alba

https://images.app.goo.gl/QsTqT5aJAB4RL3UV9

The Duke and Duchess of Calabria

https://images.app.goo.gl/mwPLo7REK43fHddH6

Baroness Thyssen

https://images.app.goo.gl/kSbTgbbtKbVsuqHc7
 
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Frelinghighness said:
But was it typical, normal protocol for the king not to greet his sisters after he greeted his parents and Princess Beatrice?
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Your question was already answered. Read below:

Duc_et_Pair said:
Don Juan Carlos, Doña Sofía and Princess Beatrix are the former equals of today's King and Queen and all three are official members of a Royal House. It made sense that they were officially greeted.
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Duke of Marmalade said:
If looks could kill
https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-cuatro-reyes-funeral-pilar-borbon-202001291348_video.html
I feel for JC, the first of his sisters has passed away.
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It is weird that Felipe and Letizia turned back to greet Princess Beatrix, who is not family, and ignored Elena and Cristina.

lula said:
The Prince of Wales was represented by the Duke of Wellington at the Funeral Service for Doña Pilar de Borbón, Infanta de España, which was held at el Escorial Monastery San Lorenzo de el Escorial, Madrid, Spain

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/court-circular-january-29-2020-23hvcfq6l
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The first Duke of Wellington, his ancestor, was the first Protestant , I think, to be made a knight of the order of the Golden Fleece. When Prince Albert later received the Golden Fleece, the Duke of Wellington represented the Spanish regency in the induction ceremony as Queen Victoria described in a letter to King Leopold I of the Belgians.


And, of course, the Duke of Wellington also holds the title of Duque de Ciudad Rodrigo in the Spanish nobility and is accordingly a Grandee of Spain.
 
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I feel like the Spanish Court still observes fairly strict protocol at these type of events. Felipe formally greeted his parents, who are also a King and Queen, as well as the former Queen Beatrix as a sign of respect. Everyone else’s job through the procession seems to be to look solemn and keep their eyes either on the King or straight ahead. And, of course, it’s a funeral, not really a good place for friendly greetings, (at least not at that part of it).

Unfortunately, if you don’t consider the protocol involved, the pictures and videos seem to show Felipe enthusiastically greeting Beatrix while barely acknowledging his own sisters. It’s an unfortunate and awkward visual but in reality they all acted appropriately. I’ve said before I think it would benefit the SRF to make an effort to be seen interacting in a friendly manner every once in awhile, even if they have to fake it. I don’t think they should start that process at a funeral, though!
 
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However, it's great to see that several fellow royals made the trip to Spain (or attended while living in Spain) to pay their respects at the service in honor of the infanta.

Unfortunately, it again shows the extreme coldness (close to hatred) between the sisters-in-law. They truly cannot stand each other; I don't get the same vibe from their brother.
 
I understand that the Spanish Royal Family observes the strictest protocol, and they execute it flawlessly.

But I love to see united and close families convey some hint of warmth even in the midst of a ceremonial occasions and there was absolutely absolutely zero to see of it at La Almudena.

I can remember when Cristina and Felipe were the closest, most complicit of Royal siblings.

They appeared now as they sadly are...irretrievably estranged.
 
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Somebody said:
However, it's great to see that several fellow royals made the trip to Spain (or attended while living in Spain) to pay their respects at the service in honor of the infanta.

Unfortunately, it again shows the extreme coldness (close to hatred) between the sisters-in-law. They truly cannot stand each other; I don't get the same vibe from their brother.
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Letizia looks super uncomfortable as soon as she is confronted with the sisters who on most occasions appear with the Emeritus Kings.
It's clear who has sided with whom.

And Felipe between a rock and a hard place.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Letizia looks super uncomfortable as soon as she is confronted with the sisters who on most occasions appear with the Emeritus Kings.
It's clear who has sided with whom.

And Felipe between a rock and a hard place.
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Maybe in the old days when JC was still the King. Now I don't see her being uncomfortable with the presence of the sister-in-law, just didn't 'give a damn'.
Elena and Christina are not the members of the royal family anymore. It's not a protocol violation when the Kings didn't greet them. Of course the Kings could choose to greet them (if Elena were alone, they probably would do it), but for obvious reasons they didn't want to.
The family arguments over years centered Christina and Inaki have been over after Inaki went to jail. Now each person is put in their own place. Each does things what they want/need to. The sisters-in-law don't get along well, sure, but no need to over analyze everything.
 
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donnaK said:
Maybe in the old days when JC was still the King. Now I don't see her being uncomfortable with the presence of the sister-in-law, just didn't 'give a damn'.
Elena and Christina are not the members of the royal family anymore. It's not a protocol violation when the Kings didn't greet them. Of course the Kings could choose to greet them (if Elena were alone, they probably would do it), but for obvious reasons they didn't want to.
The family arguments over years centered Christina and Inaki have been over after Inaki went to jail. Now each person is put in their own place. Each does things what they want/need to. The sisters-in-law don't get along well, sure, but no need to over analyze everything.
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If she didn't care, she would have behaved very differently (this time and before). She 'spotted' them with her eyes (see pictures of her irises in the corner of her eyes) when walking in and then purposefully and somewhat haughtily ignored them.

Moonmaiden23 said:
I understand that the Spanish Royal Family observes the strictest protocol, and they execute it flawlessly.

But I love to see united and close families convey some hint of warmth even in the midst of a ceremonial occasions and there was absolutely absolutely zero to see of it at La Almudena.

I can remember when Cristina and Felipe were the closest, most complicit of Royal siblings.

They appeared now as they sadly are...irretrievably estranged.
Click to expand...
While yes, they seem pretty strict on protocol, still greeting your parents (with queen Sofia needing to bend forward quite a bit to even make that possible) and princess Beatrix with 3 kisses doesn't look like strict protocol to me (a more formal greeting would); neither does having infanta Margarita sit with the family of Infanta Pilar instead of with the other infantas. So, at times they are able to make adjustments...
 
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Somebody said:
While yes, they seem pretty strict on protocol, still greeting your parents (with queen Sofia needing to bend forward quite a bit to even make that possible) and princess Beatrix with 3 kisses doesn't look like strict protocol to me (a more formal greeting would); neither does having infanta Margarita sit with the family of Infanta Pilar instead of with the other infantas. So, at times they are able to make adjustments...
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I have seen many royal funerals, many of them with other monarchs in attendance, and the monarch of the host country usually enters the church and takes his/her place without stopping to greet anyone.



I think greeting his parents and kissing Princess Beatrix was strictly personal and had nothing to do with protocol. It was not a state funeral anyway.
 
Somebody said:
If she didn't care, she would have behaved very differently (this time and before). She 'spotted' them with her eyes (see pictures of her irises in the corner of her eyes) when walking in and then purposefully and somewhat haughtily ignored them.
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It was a split second gesture, obvious media wanted to look for a story. Vice Versa with Cristina. The relation between the Kings and his sister are cold, anything new ? Felipe didn't greet his sisters first, what else could Letizia do other than following her husband, the King ?

Mbruno said:
I have seen many royal funerals, many of them with other monarchs in attendance, and the monarch of the host country usually enters the church and takes his/her place without stopping to greet anyone.



I think greeting his parents and kissing Princess Beatrix was strictly personal and had nothing to do with protocol. It was not a state funeral anyway.
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Completely agree. It's out of respect and appreciation for the older generation monarchies, there is no need to do the same for the same generation infantas.
The relation is indeed cold. Cristina has always been an extremely proud person, after Felipe revoked her title after being told many times to resign, what else could be expected ?
 
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donnaK said:
Maybe in the old days when JC was still the King. Now I don't see her being uncomfortable with the presence of the sister-in-law, just didn't 'give a damn'.
Elena and Christina are not the members of the royal family anymore. It's not a protocol violation when the Kings didn't greet them. Of course the Kings could choose to greet them (if Elena were alone, they probably would do it), but for obvious reasons they didn't want to.
The family arguments over years centered Christina and Inaki have been over after Inaki went to jail. Now each person is put in their own place. Each does things what they want/need to. The sisters-in-law don't get along well, sure, but no need to over analyze everything.
Click to expand...


How do you know that the family arguments have stopped? I would hope they'd stop at some point, but I've seen no change in behaviour or in reporting that would indicate anything has changed. And there's sometimes a difference between public position and position in family power politics. Elena and Cristina's "place" is that of Infantas of Spain, daughters of a King, and well loved members of the extended family and the long time social circle of which Felipe is still a part. Let's not pretend they couldn't be formidable adversaries behind the scenes if they so chose.

Also, let's review: Cristina faced a judge determined to send her to trial no matter what, (the same judge who then sat for many hours with a journalist to discuss the case, including talking about "feelings" he had about Cristina but just couldn't prove), the entire Spanish media drumming up a witch hunt that involved leaked personal emails, the prosecutor's office going through mountains of documents and advising she not be brought to trial due to lack of evidence, and finally a panel of well respected judges who found her not guilty of any crime. Inaki was found guilty and is now paying his debt to society. She is attending her aunt's funeral with the rest of her family. They are in a church. Felipe is His Most CATHOLIC Majesty of Spain. She is his sister. And you're saying that he stood within a foot of her and deliberately ignored her? If that's true, IMO, that would make Felipe small minded, petty and cowardly. Not qualities that tend to make a good man, let alone one deserving of his position as King. So, I'm going to stick with blaming it on protocol. The alternative you present makes him look too pathetic.
 
camelot23ca said:
How do you know that the family arguments have stopped? I would hope they'd stop at some point, but I've seen no change in behaviour or in reporting that would indicate anything has changed. And there's sometimes a difference between public position and position in family power politics. Elena and Cristina's "place" is that of Infantas of Spain, daughters of a King, and well loved members of the extended family and the long time social circle of which Felipe is still a part. Let's not pretend they couldn't be formidable adversaries behind the scenes if they so chose.

Also, let's review: Cristina faced a judge determined to send her to trial no matter what, (the same judge who then sat for many hours with a journalist to discuss the case, including talking about "feelings" he had about Cristina but just couldn't prove), the entire Spanish media drumming up a witch hunt that involved leaked personal emails, the prosecutor's office going through mountains of documents and advising she not be brought to trial due to lack of evidence, and finally a panel of well respected judges who found her not guilty of any crime. Inaki was found guilty and is now paying his debt to society. She is attending her aunt's funeral with the rest of her family. They are in a church. Felipe is His Most CATHOLIC Majesty of Spain. She is his sister. And you're saying that he stood within a foot of her and deliberately ignored her? If that's true, IMO, that would make Felipe small minded, petty and cowardly. Not qualities that tend to make a good man, let alone one deserving of his position as King. So, I'm going to stick with blaming it on protocol. The alternative you present makes him look too pathetic.
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Over the years Sofia pretty much insisted that Inaki was innocent (didn't her Greek family publicly defended the innocence of Inaki ?), her insistence of depending her daughter and son-in-law, rehabilitating their image added lots of pressure on Felipe. That's what I meant on the family arguments, which was over after Inaki went to jail. Yes, media did do the witch hunt on them (that's the type of media in Spain), but it's also the fact that her Daddy and then PM Rajoy did all they could to save her, but that's another topic.

I don't know there is a protocol for the King to greet own family members or friends at a state (or formal) funeral, but protocol can be broken for good intentions. I think Felipe did the greeting to his parents and Beatrice out of respect and appreciation for the elderly monarchies. He didn't go out of his way to greet his sisters, don't see anything wrong with it.
 
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With the death of HRH The Infanta Pilar ,her personal duchy that of Badajoz which was for life only reverted to the Crown,the Infanta having held the title since 1967.
 
:previous: Thanks for mentioning Pilar's title - I was wondering what would happen to the duchy now that she is no longer with us. It'll be interesting to see if/when it will next be used and Badajoz will have another royal representative.
 
HereditaryPrincess said:
:previous: Thanks for mentioning Pilar's title - I was wondering what would happen to the duchy now that she is no longer with us. It'll be interesting to see if/when it will next be used and Badajoz will have another royal representative.
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Infanta Pilar was also Dowager Viscountess de la Torre since her husband death in 1991 ,her eldest son Don Juan Gómez-Acebo is now the 3rd Viscount de La Torre.
 
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