The Dukes of Burgundy (Valois), Rulers of the Low Countries

[Next Star]

What happened to the Duke of Burgundy and the rest of the ducal family are there are any descents still alive or did the family line die out?

 

[Avalon]

What happened to the Duke of Burgundy and the rest of the ducal family are there are any descents still alive or did the family line die out?

Note: At the end there are explanations of some terms that might not be clear from reading the below.


The Duchy of Burgundy 'belonged' to several Houses.

The first Duke of Birgundy was Richard the Justiciar, from the House of Ardennes. After the last descendant of the dynasty, Otto-Henry (the Great) died without male heirs, Burgundy was inherited by his step-son, Otto-Willelm. However in 1004 (?) the Duchy of Burgundy was annexed to the Crown of France by King Robert II of France (Robert was the son of Hugh Capet and Otto-Henry was Hugh Capet's younger brother. Therefore Robert was the legitimate heir.) However though Otto-Willelm was deprived of actual Dukedom of Burgundy, he continuted to reign over the so-called free County of Burgundy. There were 3 counts, if I'm not mistaken, after which it was mered with the Dukedom again.

Robert II belonged to the House of Capet (he was Hugh Capet's son), therefore the second house that 'owned' the Duchy was the Capetian. He was succeded by Henry I, who was also the Duke of Burgundy (and the last Capetian Duke). Robert, aided by his mother, rebelled against Henry and the peace was achieved only when he was given the Dukedom of Burgundy, thus establishing the House of Burgundy.

The last Duke of the House of Burgundy was Philip I, Duke of Burgundy. Philip was not only Duke of Burgundy (inherited from his grandfather) but also Count of Burgundy and Artois (inherited from his grandmother). He married Maragret (heiress of Flanders) however died in the same year (of plague), without heirs.
The Duchy was inherited by the closest living relative (paternal line), King John II of France (the county was inherited by someone else from his maternal line).

After John II inherited the Duchy (1361), the third House gained the possession of it - the House of Valois. The House of Valois owned the Dukedom untill 1482. The last Duke of Burgundy, Charles I the Bold had only 1 surviving daughter, Mary. After his death Mary became the Duchess of Burgundy.

In 1477 Mary was made to sign the charter of rights, called the Great Privilege (?). According to the charter the provinces of Flanders, Brabant, Holland and Hainaut (major parts of Burgundy) retained all the local and community right. Basically the Dukedom of Burgundy stopped existing ever since. Parts of it were annexed by France. Mary retained only small parts of the original Duchy.
She married to Archduke Maximilian of Austria (later Maximilian I, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire). That's how the Low Countries came to the Habsburgs, starting a contention between France and the Habsburghs (later Spain and then Austria) for 3 centuries. The contention reached its highest point during the War of the Spanish Succession.

After Mary's death, Louis XI of France forced Maximilian to agree to the Treaty of Arras, by which Franche Comte and Artois passed to French rule. Later Franche Comte and Artois were changed for the County (not Duchy) of Burgundy and Picardy by the Treaty of Senlis (spelling?).

Basically Mary was the last Duke (Duchess) of the Burgundy. Her son, Philip I of Castile, inherited only the Burgundian Netherlands (though still quite a big part of the former Duchy). His sucessors inherited the Burgundian Netherlands as well until at some point there were divided between and invaded by various countries (France, Netherlands, Germany, Luxembough, Belgium).


Notes:
*Burgundian Netherlands - Union of 17 Provinces, covering (roughly) the current Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh and parts of France (and a part of Germany, if I'm not mistaken).
* Low Countires - Historical region of de Nederlanden
* De Nederlanden - not to confuse historical Netherlands (covering most of the Burgundian Netherlands, including Low countires) and current country (which occupies only part of the historical one), the Dutch speakers usually speak of Nederland (singular) for the current country and de Nederlanden for the historic part. In English (roughly) Netherland (or Holland) for the current country, the Netherlands (plural) for the historic one.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

The Duchy of Burgundy 'belonged' to several Houses.

Thanks, Avalon, for your indepth discussion on the French royalty of the past and their relationship with other countries/royals.

 

[Princess Robijn]

Notes:
*Burgundian Netherlands - Union of 17 Provinces, covering (roughly) the current Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh and parts of France (and a part of Germany, if I'm not mistaken).
* Low Countires - Historical region of de Nederlanden
* De Nederlanden - not to confuse historical Netherlands (covering most of the Burgundian Netherlands, including Low countires) and current country (which occupies only part of the historical one), the Dutch speakers usually speak of Nederland (singular) for the current country and de Nederlanden for the historic part. In English (roughly) Netherland (or Holland) for the current country, the Netherlands (plural) for the historic one.

Not sure about others, but in English, at school we learned ALWAYS to use (The) Netherlands, never Netherland, with that, Holland is often used, but incorrect, Holland is just 1 of the provinces over here

 

[Avalon]

You are most welcome, HRH Kimetha.

Not sure about others, but in English, at school we learned ALWAYS to use (The) Netherlands, never Netherland, with that, Holland is often used, but incorrect, Holland is just 1 of the provinces over here

I was always tought that was as well (the Netherlands) Princess Robjin. I got the information from "Burgundy: In Past and Present" and I think it was also mentioned in another one on the French Kingdoms.

Of course, as a native Dutch, you know better, so I guess it's just a mistake. The book did mention that the translation to 'Netherland' is rough and is only given to explain the difference between Nederland and de Nederlanden, not as a currect term to refer to the country.

 

[Marengo]

The Dukes of Burgundy (Valois)

Welcome to the thread dedicated to the Dukes of Burgundy, belonging to the house of Valois.​

Arms of the House of Burgundy (after 1430)​

List of Dukes:

* Philip II the Bold (1363–1404), fourth son of King John II of France
* John II the Fearless (1404–1419)
* Philip III the Good (1419–1467)
* Charles I the Bold (1467–1477)
* Mary I the Rich (1477–1482)

Note that before and afterwards the title has been held by various dynasties and princes. The last Duke of Burgundy was the future king Louis XV of France, in his times the title was however just a ceremonial one.

 

[Marengo]

The territory of the Dukes:

 

[RoyalistRiley]

The Order of the Golden Fleece, one of the highest orders of chivalry of the Habsburgs, was originallly founded by Duke Phillip III the good in 1430 to commemorate his marriage to the Portugese Princess Isabel of Aviz. It reverted to the Habsburgs when they took over Burgundian lands before splitting into Austrain and Spanish Orders. Upon the collapse of Habsburg power in 1918, the King of Belgium asked to be given the power to award the Order as he ruled over some of the Duchy's territory. Hsi request was refused and today is awarded by HM the King of Spain and the Head of the House of Habsburg (unofficially).

 

[Marengo]

A genealogical tree that I made, which shows how the provinces of the low countries all ended up with Mary the Rich, Duchess fo Burgundy. Throguh her marriages it ended up with the Habsburgs, and her grandson Charles V inherited an enormous empire (German Empire, Low Countries, Spain and much of Italy):

 

[QUEENECE29]

First time I've learned very good information. Thanks Marengo.

 

[RoyalistRiley]

Amazing stuff Marengo! Thanks a lot!!!

If such a title of Duke of Burgundy existed today, who would be the Duke? Would it be a descendant of the House of Bourbon through Louis XV (the last person to use the title) or would it be a member of the Habsburg House?

 

[15thC_Odette]

There is a current Duke of Burgundy

His Majesty Juan Carlos I, King of Spain is currently styled Duke of Burgundy.

 

[Next Star]

The queen of the united Kingdom is too styled the Duke of Burgundy.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Louis Alphonse de Bourbon also styles himself as Duke of Burgundy (among others).

 

[Warren]

The queen of the united Kingdom is too styled the Duke of Burgundy.

Elizabeth II is officially styled 'Duke of Normandy' in Jersey and Guernsey (and 'Duke of Lancaster' in Lancashire).
She is nowhere styled 'Duke of Burgundy'.

 

[Artemisia]

The queen of the united Kingdom is too styled the Duke of Burgundy.

No, she isn't. The Queen is titled The Duke of Normandy, The Duke of Lancaster and the Lord of Mann (not Duchess or Lady, as only masculine forms of the titles exist). She isn't, and has never been, Duke of Burgundy. In fact, no English or British Monarch has ever claimed title to be part of the titles of the crown.

There are currently two people who contest the title of The Duke of Burgundy between them - King Juan Carlos of Spain and Prince Louis of Bourbon. King Juan Carlos uses the title as it has been one of the titles of the Spanish Crown since the restoration. Prince Louis of Bourbon is pretender to the title as the eldest son of the (legitimist) claimant to the French Throne, Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Gift exchange at the court of Charles the Bold

Gift exchange at the court of Charles the Bold

 

[Marengo]

Bart van Loo has written a new book -in Dutch- about the Burgundian dukes of the low countries, called 'De Bourgondiërs'.

https://www.debezigebij.nl/boeken/de-bourgondiers/

The author said that since the name of William of Orange is shining so brightly in our historic knowledge, it tends to blind us & we do not often look behind, to see what there was before him. And that would of course be the Burgundian dukes who were able to merge all these various territories into a somewhat cohesive area.

The book has been a no.1 non-fiction bestseller for some weeks now, which doesn't happen very often with history books.

Van Loo now has a podcast on the Flemish radio station Klara which may be interesting for Dutch/Flemish members. The way he talks seems like a parody but after 10 minutes you get used to his accent & intonation & he turns out to be a great story teller. It is wonderful to hear the tales of legendary characters like John the Fearless, Queen Isabeau, Philip the Good, Jeanne d'Arc and poor Jacqueline of Bavaria & the kiss of Delft.

https://klara.be/debourgondiers

 

[An Ard Ri]

Is this the Jacqueline of Bavaria featured in your book?

https://thefreelancehistorywriter.c...ss-of-holland-zeeland-hainaut-and-oostervant/

 

[Marengo]

Yes, that is her indeed. One of the great tragic heroines of the low countries. Her maternal grandfather was the first Burgundian duke of the Valois line: Philip the Bold.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There are some very interesting and largely forgotten historical figures from that era!

 

[Marengo]

A few days ago Stephane Bern's 'Secrets d'histoire' on France3 was dedicated to Mary of Burgundy, ruler of the Low Countries, mother-in-law of Juana la Loca and grandmother to the Emperor Charles Quint.

Among the people interviewed is Bart van Loo, who wrote a best seller book about the Burgundian dukes. The book has appeared in Dutch, French and German. It seems that there were plans for an English edition but I have not heard any updates on it yet.

 

[An Ard Ri]

A highly fascinating and interesting historical figure and utterly miraculous that her magnificent tomb at Notre Dame de Bruges survived the French in 1794.

 

[Marengo]

Bart van Loo's book about the Dukes of Burgundy has been translated into English and has received very positive reviews in the Sunday Times and the Telegraph.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460196216302673922

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ished-empire-by-bart-van-loo-review-ll253npc2

"a superb look at a long-gone empire and the mad dukes who ruled it [...] thrillingly colourful and entertaining too. [...] If there is any justice, a blockbuster TV series awaits.”

And in the Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/meet-burgundians-mighty-empire-world-forgot/

 

[An Ard Ri]

Looks like a very interesting and well researched read on the dukes

 

[Marengo]

Van Loo is a great story teller. The book has been a best seller in Belgium and in The Netherlands for over a year. He is now doing lectures on the topic in theatre halls through the two countries, but all of them are sold out.

His great achievement is to find a large audience for this story. The Dukes got eclipsed by the Habsburgs that arrived afterwards and -as he calls it- 'the blinding Orange sun'. But it was the Burgundian dynasty who was able to carve out the independant structure of the states that would later become Belgium and The Netherlands.

There are many fascinating stories in the book, the assassination of John the Fearless by the French Dauphin omn the bridge of Montereau, the tragic fate of Jacqueline of Bavaria, who lost her counties to Philip the Good, the arrest - by the Burgundian troops- of Joan of Arc, Isabeau of Bavaria and her mad husband Charles VI who thought he was made of glass, Emperor Frederick III escaping like a thief in the night to get out of a promise to elevate Charles the Bold to a king, the foundation of the order of the Golden Fleece etc. etc.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Many thanks for the links and it may very well end up in my Christmas stocking

 

[Marengo]

Bart van Loo is interviewed for an hour long about his book / the Burgundian dukes by the podcast 'The rest is history' by the British historian Tom Holland.

https://play.acast.com/s/the-rest-is-history-podcast/131-burgundy-europes-forgotten-kingdom

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy and John, Duke of Berry sat in council as Regents during the illness of King Charles VI of France.

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[An Ard Ri]

Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy and John, Duke of Berry sat in council as Regents during the illness of King Charles VI of France.

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Queen Isabeau presided over the Council and it also included the kings brother Louis , Duke of Orléans and his 2 uncles Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy and John, Duke of Berry.