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  #361  
Old 03-14-2021, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
So does anyone think Archie will get his HRH belatedly and the new baby will be made a princess on birth and given an HRH? Or has that ship sailed?
I think that teh queen is very conservative and doesn't change things unless she really has to.. and I doubt if she is inclined to give way to Harry now after his behaviour. Plus why woudl they want the kid ot be HRH?? He's now living in the US, they're happy there, they dont want to come back
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  #362  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Probably the best opinion piece I have read for a while - read it before it is taken down.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...rangement.html
Kazuo Ishiguro, the Anglo-Japanese novelist, recently spoke out about "cancel culture" and his fears that young authors are almost frightened to speak/write for fear that they'll be abused or "cancelled". The term he used was "climate of fear". Sharon Osbourne - who, as a woman with Jewish heritage, will be well aware herself of the dangers of prejudice - has spoken about how she "panicked, felt blindsided [and] got defensive" after being accused of racism when all she'd done was ask someone to give examples of when Piers Morgan was racist (which they were unable to do). I think that Douglas Murray makes some valid points.

Harry and Meghan made a big deal about Archie not being a public figure. They only gave him two forenames - OK, it might not sound like a big deal, but royal children normally have three or even four forenames. They didn't want him to be the Earl of Dumbarton. They didn't even want to release photos for the first few days after he was born. No problem with that, but it just doesn't tie in with them claiming that they were wanting and expecting him to be HRH Prince. And, if they were in discussions about leaving for 2 years before they did, all the claims about wanting Archie to be styled and titled equally to William's children make even less sense.
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  #363  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Was anyone sympathetic to Andrew when he insisted that his daughters remained working royals, with the future and security it entails? I don't remember many such people for sure. I, for one, wasn't, although I was sympathetic towards the girls. Having something and then having it taken from you didn't sit well with me. I've always been amused by Sarah's staunch attempts to not let her daughters be overshone but I'm starting to see even this in a different light. At least she didn't do it by casting aspersions and shades on everyone else.



I am not sympathetic to Harry and Meghan in this regard. I'm surprised that people refuse to see he's turning into Andrew... with far less grounds. It's been known for years that the monarchy is being slimmed down. It's something happening all over Europe. But no, it can't be about Harry, right? He is *this* special. The same for Meghan. She gets away with most outrageous misrepresentations because she "didn't understand", "was naive" and so on fairytales.


They are the new Andrew and Sarah, just worse in *this* respect. But people give them consideration refused to Andrew and Sarah who were generally seen as ridiculous.


As to the olive branch journalists see as having been extended by HM, I never saw one and even if there was, they happily broke it when they authorized Janina to retaliate in the rude way typical for Meghan (and now Harry) the very next day.


I believe she bullied staff. No one sends such an email about one of the most senior employers of theirs without having a reason. But let's the independant company do their investigation. BTW, Harry and Meghan managed to show how rude and self-conceited they are even about this. For people who incessantly talk about kindness and "their truth", they don't seem to acknowledge that other people's truth even exists. The possibility of even misunderstanding isn't a thing for them. Instead, they had to issue their rude statement that Meghan would continue to be "an example". Not even a word of regret that people felt this way. While the BP gave them this recognition.


Let's wait and see. I'm ready to eat my words but this far, I do think there's much truth in the bullying accusation against both of them.
People were never sympathetic to Andrew - instead to Ann or Edward either. They are not attractive and vibrant - nor are they the child of Diana. When the security and the titles were taken away it was great - get rid of the lay about, hung on's ect. But apply the same rules to the Sussex's and all hell breaks loose - everyone's a racist or a bully. People are fickle and easily persuaded by attractive manipulative woman, especially other women.

I tend to believe the bullying in that I know the type of people that work in the palace and they are not the people to make accusations and let pity incidences get to them - they are more agile and robust. But I am concerned that the victim mentality might be contagious - things people used to brush off, people are now traumatized over. Maybe I am getting old or I just have thick skin. I feel I belong to a different world now, I do not understand people that complain about tone in an email or that they were made to feel unwelcomed when they made no attempt to fit in.
  #364  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:11 AM
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I'd think if so they'd send Eugenie. For Beatrice is the stepmom of another POC (half-Asian Wolfie) and that could be seem as "racist" choice like the "two peas in one pot" - image.
Harry is reportedly closet to Eugenie. But don't forget that Eugenie has a newborn and might even be nursing. The Sussex baby will be born this summer and( I assume) christened before the end of the year.

As a new mother with an infant, Eugenie might agree to be godmother but decide against travelling to the U.S. for the actual ceremony.
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  #365  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:15 AM
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Meghan will want the baby christened with the royal font, dress and holy water. Possibly Chapel Royal. So I expect it will need to be boxed up to be taken to LA if she wants that. I suppose the ABC can accompany it for safe keeping - they are such good friends and all.
  #366  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:16 AM
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It's an interesting comparison. Prince Andrew got no sympathy at all for wanting Beatrice and Eugenie to be working royals, and some very nasty comments were made - Beatrice and Eugenie were accused of wanting the taxpayer to pay for them to spend all their time going on holiday, and they were only teenagers at the time.


Nastiness aside, the vast majority of people felt that the monarchy should be slimmed down - as is happening in other countries too - and that it was neither expected nor desired that the York princesses would play the same sort of role as the Kents and Gloucesters, or Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, before them. And they're the same relation to the monarch as Archie will be in Prince Charles's reign.
  #367  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Was anyone sympathetic to Andrew when he insisted that his daughters remained working royals, with the future and security it entails? I don't remember many such people for sure. I, for one, wasn't, although I was sympathetic towards the girls. Having something and then having it taken from you didn't sit well with me. I've always been amused by Sarah's staunch attempts to not let her daughters be overshone but I'm starting to see even this in a different light. At least she didn't do it by casting aspersions and shades on everyone else.



I am not sympathetic to Harry and Meghan in this regard. I'm surprised that people refuse to see he's turning into Andrew... with far less grounds. It's been known for years that the monarchy is being slimmed down. It's something happening all over Europe. But no, it can't be about Harry, right? He is *this* special. The same for Meghan. She gets away with most outrageous misrepresentations because she "didn't understand", "was naive" and so on fairytales.


They are the new Andrew and Sarah, just worse in *this* respect. But people give them consideration refused to Andrew and Sarah who were generally seen as ridiculous.


As to the olive branch journalists see as having been extended by HM, I never saw one and even if there was, they happily broke it when they authorized Janina to retaliate in the rude way typical for Meghan (and now Harry) the very next day.


I believe she bullied staff. No one sends such an email about one of the most senior employers of theirs without having a reason. But let's the independant company do their investigation. BTW, Harry and Meghan managed to show how rude and self-conceited they are even about this. For people who incessantly talk about kindness and "their truth", they don't seem to acknowledge that other people's truth even exists. The possibility of even misunderstanding isn't a thing for them. Instead, they had to issue their rude statement that Meghan would continue to be "an example". Not even a word of regret that people felt this way. While the BP gave them this recognition.


Let's wait and see. I'm ready to eat my words but this far, I do think there's much truth in the bullying accusation against both of them.
I’m happy BP decided to go with an independent third party to conduct the investigation. It makes sense for everyone involved, especially if The Times is correct and serious and upsetting episodes occurred that the staff will now be asked to talk about. Because, at least from what we know so far, the employees already spoke to their supervisor about some incidents - hence the email - and things weren’t resolved in a way that would be expected from a modern professional workplace, likely because doing so would have involved clipping the wings of two of the so called principals, one of whom was the first high profile biracial member of The Royal Family, (and who has since shown that she’s more than willing to use that fact as a way to attempt to silence any opposition).

I think the senior staff were put in a difficult position. They wanted to keep the employees happy and do right by them but they suspected there would be a sh*t storm, to be be blunt, if word got out that they’d dared to take action against Meghan - and I think we can take it as a given word would have quickly gotten out! So I understand where they were coming from but they still picked the wrong side.
  #368  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Meghan will want the baby christened with the royal font, dress and holy water. Possibly Chapel Royal. So I expect it will need to be boxed up to be taken to LA if she wants that. I suppose the ABC can accompany it for safe keeping - they are such good friends and all.
I disagree. I cannot see Meghan insisting on the Royal font and christening gown.

Harry is quite another story. Absolutely I can see him demanding those things. And if HM and the CoE refuse to take the huge risk( think of the insurance cost!) of putting these items on an airplane to be shipped thousands of miles away...well.

My prediction is that there will be hell to pay.
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  #369  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I disagree. I cannot see Meghan insisting on the Royal font and christening gown.

Harry is quite another story. Absolutely he will demand those things. And if HM and the CoE refuse to take the huge risk( think of the insurance risk) of putting these items on an airplane to be shipped thousands of miles away...well.

My prediction is that there will be hell to pay.
I can't see how he ca demand anything. Or rather he can demand, but that does not mean that the RF are going to let him have whatever he wants.
  #370  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:28 AM
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oddly I can see her wanting it just so that when it is refused she can comment about how unfair it is.
Also she will then make a large fuss about making a Christening gown to start her own family tradition, ala Victoria.
Surprised that she hasn't asked for her wedding dress yet from BP. Is it impinging on your human right to take away your wedding dress for historical purposes?


IN other news - I have been informed that odd about Harry and Meghan joining Scientology has been drastically cut. Did I miss a email?
  #371  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:39 AM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News March 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Probably the best opinion piece I have read for a while - read it before it is taken down.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...rangement.html


This is excellent. And I agree with the points raised.

THE truth still matters.

The right to state one’s opinion is important.

“Most worryingly, we are now being encouraged to think that we must never question the ‘truth’ of someone who presents themselves as a victim. “ IA- this is a cause for concern.
  #372  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I tend to believe the bullying in that I know the type of people that work in the palace and they are not the people to make accusations and let pity incidences get to them - they are more agile and robust. But I am concerned that the victim mentality might be contagious - things people used to brush off, people are now traumatized over. Maybe I am getting old or I just have thick skin. I feel I belong to a different world now, I do not understand people that complain about tone in an email or that they were made to feel unwelcomed when they made no attempt to fit in.
Yes to all of this. But I think you overlook an issue (that I would have overlooked just two weeks ago as well.) Bullying can take many shapes. Meghan's overzealousness, or her so admired "American work ethic" can come close to one.

As a freelancer, I work in a field where we constantly check each other's work for mistakes (it's part of the profession, the controlling role). It's recommended to have "controllers" from the same specialty, not just the field. And we get the work back to accept or refuse the corrections. Just ten days ago, I got back a work of mine checked by a monarch in our field... but not my specialty. They were so zealous, or as some would say, ethical, that they constantly offered corrections and suggestions based on incorrect understanding of the specialty and thus, the work. It took me five days (usually, it takes me just a few hours) to go through all their corrections and explain why they weren't acceptable.I don't think it constitutes bullying but it certainly wasn't acceptable to waste five work days for which I had planned to do other work and get paid for it, instead explaining things that we learn in our first year at school to someone who thought they didn't need to know them to know best.

Sounds like someone we know?

I pride myself on the fact that I didn't write a letter like Jason Knauf. It wasn't worth it. The situation wasn't this serious, just time-consuming and yes, frustrating. They literally condescended on me, not knowing what they didn't know, but this is no reason to whine. I suppose it took something much worse for a seasoned professional to write something so sharp.
  #373  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:56 AM
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I can't see the Lily Font being loaded onto a plane for use in an Episcopal church in LA. It is part of the Royal Collection for one thing.

I don't know if Harry and Meghan would want or expect it to happen but I can see this as being blown up into yet another big "snub" to them thing if/when it doesn't happen.
  #374  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
oddly I can see her wanting it just so that when it is refused she can comment about how unfair it is.
Also she will then make a large fuss about making a Christening gown to start her own family tradition, ala Victoria.
Surprised that she hasn't asked for her wedding dress yet from BP. Is it impinging on your human right to take away your wedding dress for historical purposes?


IN other news - I have been informed that odd about Harry and Meghan joining Scientology has been drastically cut. Did I miss a email?
I assume your last statement is meant to be satire. At least I hope and pray.
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  #375  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
So does anyone think Archie will get his HRH belatedly and the new baby will be made a princess on birth and given an HRH? Or has that ship sailed?
No and they shouldn’t. Harry and Meghan have made it clear they will not be returning to the UK. Harry may occasionally visit for various reasons but I seriously doubt Meghan will. Archie and his sister will be raised in the US far away from the Royal Family, the traditions, the history and the protocols. They will be raised as Americans with American friends, school mates and with American. “Woke” values. They will be taught US history and US Government in school as a requirement in US education. I don’t know if European History is still a requirement, although it was when I was in school. What ever they learn of their own Royal heritage will be through Harry and Meghan which is a rather dismal thought.

So....what possible benefit would there be to give them HRH status with Prince or Princess titles? None, except to appease Meghan’s ego and to make sure that their bi-racial children are considered equal to Williams’s.
  #376  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
That's true, the Sovereign can change the LP's and the fact that it can happen is a valid point. The Duke of Cambridge and the Duke of Sussex are both sons of a future King. You can argue that under the LP's there was nothing untoward in not granting Master Archie an HRH, (I'm not convinced it was racism) and I accept that. However, you can also ask since all of The Duke of Cambridge and The Duke of Sussex's children would (under the current LP's) be granted HRH's, when the POW takes the throne, it can equally be asked why did the Cambridge's not have to wait while the Sussex's do?
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Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
There is a difference between not understanding the Titles and Styles, and the LP's and asking why the 'rules' are not altered. As I said I don't care if they are or not. I understand the 'rules' I neither agree nor disagree with them.

However, it isn't wrong for anyone to question them or to agree or to disagree with them. My point has always been the rational that the 'rules' cannot be changed is flawed.

Why weren't they changed for Master Archie and his future siblings? To me the obvious answer would be, 'we will not know' for some time. I can live with that.

But people should be allowed to question, agree, and disagree, as long as its done politely.
Since I notice that you're an American like I am, when it comes to LPs, one difference hasn't been pointed out in language an American would understand. LPs are the "Queen's will and pleasure". She deems the titles and styles and the order of precedence within the royal family at her will and pleasure. She had the power to declare that Edward's kids would be titled and styled as children of an Earl. She had the power to declare that *all* the Cambridge kids would have HRH and Prince/ss. It would be seen similar as a Presidential Executive Order that the US president issues.

Now, the kicker. The Act of Succession to the Crown. that isn't an LP. It's an act of parliament. It was drawn up to change male primogeniture to absolute primogeniture around 2011 when William (the heir to the heir to the throne) married. "is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that altered the laws of succession to the British throne in accordance with the 2011 Perth Agreement." The Queen didn't declare this as her "will and pleasure". It had to go through Parliament such as changing the US Constitution would have to go through the House and the Senate (all the states of the US having a say). This Act had to be ratified not only in the UK but also in the realms and territories where the Queen is the head of state.

The Act was amended such that William's first born child would be the heir apparent to the heir apparent to the heir apparent to the throne. (that's a lot of heirs. More than are on William's head. Its a situation that cropped up because of QEII's longevity). The existing LPs of George VI declared that only the first *male* great grandchild would have the HRH Prince. The Queen issues new LPs to be in accordance with the new amendment to the Act of Succession to the Crown 2013. She decided *all* the great grandchildren from an heir to the throne shall have that right and privilege of HRH Princ/ess going forward. Now, if Charles has the longevity genes and is on the throne when George marries and had kids, all this applies to him. But... not to Charlotte or Louis' kids. They're not heirs to the throne.

Hope this explains better. LPs are the Queen's will and pleasure. Acts are declarations of Parliament.
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  #377  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I never thought New Zealand was one of their destinations to live in, I thought it was Canada, Africa and USA. What I have heard is that Australia was not exactly on their plan.
In the interview with Oprah they mentioned New Zealand, Africa and Canada as potential destinations for their half-in, half-out life.
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Good, as far as I’m concerned. So long as it is all fair and above board to Meghan as well as to her accusers, then let the cards fall where they may.

We still don’t know however, exactly what processes are being used however.

Is the Palace going to authorise a full blown attack on Meghan by publicising the results in an official statement to the media, or leave it in its annual reports? If it does the former it doesn’t say much for the olive branch extended to the Sussexes in the Queen’s last statement.


Or is this inquiry going to be more focused on processes going forward on any bullying by Palace staff in the future? If it is, then the British press baying for Meghan’s head on a platter aren’t going to be satisfied
Oh, Curryong, you never disappoint

First it was "no, the palace cannot do this investigation internally", when they hired an independent law firm "but what processes will be used" - we don't know anything yet. Let them work. These are serious accusations, not only for Meghan, but also for the PALACE - after all, if the bullying did happen, the KP and CH offices covered this up to protect her and did nothing for the employees.

Also, I can't imagine a situation in which the BRF will "authorise a full blown attack on Meghan"? What? I can't even imagine this, in no world a "full blown attack on Meghan" would be authorized by the BRF. In what reality they would do that? Not to mention that looking at what's happening now, I'd say it works the other way around...
Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Knowing what we now know, my sense is that sometime during the pregnancy H&M would have been told that special Letters Patent would not be issued to make Archie a Prince in the current reign, and given Charles' longer term plan of slimming the monarchy, Archie was not going to be a Prince in the next reign either.

Whilst this may seem sensible to those on the outside, especially given the difficult time BEa & Eugenie have had in the press, this did not work for Meghan. She probably convinced herself (and Harry) this was a personal affront to her, and I suspect that is why all the drama surrounding Archie's birth followed.
I would not be surprised if that was true. We have seen this play out with Andrew, Beatrice and Eugenie. I'd say not only the titles didn't help them in any way, but also made their life harder. It makes sense to keep the HRH only for William's children going forward (and in the next generation only to George's children and so on...).

That would be smart thinking and learning on mistakes of the past. I do like Beatrice and Eugenie very much, but they should have never had the titles. Of course removing them now is not an option, but making sure the issue doesn't happen in the next generation of young royals is a smart thing to do. Why anyone would take that personally, I don't understand.

But the most interesting thing to me is the correlation (before someone yells, I'm talking hypothetically here!) between this theory and the very private birth/not giving Archie the curtesy title he has every right to, as Harry's son. Maybe the Sussexes were so offended about Archie not getting HRH, that they decided to go nuclear in the other direction - no title at all, no photos leaving hospital, no doctors' names, no godparents names, nothing at all, because they were said he won't be a Prince.
  #378  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Meghan will want the baby christened with the royal font, dress and holy water. Possibly Chapel Royal. So I expect it will need to be boxed up to be taken to LA if she wants that. I suppose the ABC can accompany it for safe keeping - they are such good friends and all.

i don't see H&M's daughter being christened in the UK. The ongoing Covid situation will probably prevent or discourage intercontinental travel until the end of 2021 at least and I don't think they will wait longer than that to baptize the child.


Assuming that she will be baptized in the US, I suppose it will be done in the Episcopal Church U.S.A., which is the mainstream American affiliate of the Anglican communion.
  #379  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I’m happy BP decided to go with an independent third party to conduct the investigation. It makes sense for everyone involved, especially if The Times is correct and serious and upsetting episodes occurred that the staff will now be asked to talk about. Because, at least from what we know so far, the employees already spoke to their supervisor about some incidents - hence the email - and things weren’t resolved in a way that would be expected from a modern professional workplace, likely because doing so would have involved clipping the wings of two of the so called principals, one of whom was the first high profile biracial member of The Royal Family, (and who has since shown that she’s more than willing to use that fact as a way to attempt to silence any opposition).

I think the senior staff were put in a difficult position. They wanted to keep the employees happy and do right by them but they suspected there would be a sh*t storm, to be be blunt, if word got out that they’d dared to take action against Meghan - and I think we can take it as a given word would have quickly gotten out! So I understand where they were coming from but they still picked the wrong side.
To me, its unfortunate that this is an ongoing "topic of interest" that is being played out in the press. Meghan opened a can of worms and everyone is now going fishing and trying to land the "big one" aka the horrible things Meghan did. Meghan accused the "institution" of bullying and things are coming out right back at Meghan.

If Microsoft or any huge corporation had internal problems among employess/management/board of directors/whatever, we'd never hear about it. It would all be dealt with internally.

Meghan no longer works for the "institution" and therefore, to me, has no right to be involved in the internal investigations as in requesting emails of interest. Even if she was once part of it all and responsible for it all. The object now is to make changes to benefit the people that still work for the "institution" going forward.
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  #380  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:32 AM
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Surely she can't get access to the e-mails? Not at present at least, I imagine.
That could be seen as intimidating, if she were, I'd say. (Whether she is guilty in bulling or nor is beside the point.)
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