The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Hallo girl]

This along with the issue of an official photograph a couple of weeks ago all reeks of setting themselves up as BRF in the U S A .
It was the photograph that people thought Meghan was wearing Diana's ring on her pinkie.
This is what Meghan wanted all along, links to the family when it suits them, otherwise doing their own thing.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

They tried to look like they were in England , just Meghan didn't have a hat. All the rest the same. He wanted to have the best of both words and this is not possible

This is what I thought too. In Harry's mind he was at the Cenotaph, just like in the good old days when he was important. They look like aliens in the wrong movie.Too bad the hat is missing, it would have been the epitome of cringeworthyness. To honor the dead as a private person but bringing a photographer along speaks for itself, no further comment necessary.

 

[Denville]

This along with the issue of an official photograph a couple of weeks ago all reeks of setting themselves up as BRF in the U S A .
It was the photograph that people thought Meghan was wearing Diana's ring on her pinkie.
This is what Meghan wanted all along, links to the family when it suits them, otherwise doing their own thing.

Except they haven't really got links have they? If they DID ask for a wreath to be placed and were refused, then it was a kind of rebuff. It was saying to them "No you're not part of the RF any more.. you chose to leave and you're out". And the more that they act in the way that they are acting, I think the more the RF will give them a cool response...Im not saying they're going to be shunned like the Windsors but - there will be more rebuffs and coolness

 

[Curryong]

The black and white photo last month of Harry and Meghan wasn't an official photo at all, but was taken to mark their appearance on the Time 100 TV show.

By the way, which man in grey at the Palace dropped the delightful little titbit into the maw of the Times about Harry's wreath not being allowed to be laid, thereby publicly humiliating and hurting a man who has done more for veterans than any Palace Manderin ever dreamed of.

A nice kindly gesture that and worthy of what Lacey described as a cadre at BP who hated Meghan from the beginning and were determined to let the Sussexes 'know their place'. If it was any of the senior courtiers around the Queen, no wonder they didn't want to let her know.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

I really don't get it. Veteran's Day is 11/11, Wednesday in America so why not wait? It just seems they did this to get attention or upstage the Royal family. No one in America celebrates Remembrance Day. I wish they could lose their Dukedom here in America. Why did they need cameras there? Seems like a random photo op to get attention and they always claim to want "PRIVACY!"

 

[Curryong]

By the way, Arthur Edwards, photographer for the Sun newspaper, a tabloid, was allowed to lay a wreath at the ceremony, on behalf of readers of the newspaper, who had contributed to the Poppy Appeal.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13142986/remembrance-sunday-parades-smaller-covid/

The Sun editors, no friends of Harry and Meghan, must have been highly delighted that their representative was allowed to place a wreath but Prince Harry wasn't.

 

[Somebody]

I have a different view on it being nothing to do with the British people. I would also like to put in a reminder the posters were saying on the forums that they left because it had been made clear there was no place for them, no role for them to play, so they left. The photo of the 4 had been the last straw etc etc, yet here we are now saying Charles has asked them to wait and they will get back.

All the evidence points towards a role being specifically created for them mostly focused on the Commonwealth, so while some might have speculated otherwise, the evidence does not support it.

 

[caethi]

By the way, which man in grey at the Palace dropped the delightful little titbit into the maw of the Times about Harry's wreath not being allowed to be laid, thereby publicly humiliating and hurting a man who has done more for veterans than any Palace Manderin ever dreamed of.

It could just as easily been Harry and Meghan's team who leaked the story. After all, they would need to do so if they wanted to marshall some public attention for their own tribute.

I see both sides of this debate, but in the end, if it was a grey suit who made the decision, then they are nothing if not consistent.

 

[Curryong]

The story of Harry not being allowed to lay a wreath appeared in a Times article by Royal Correspendent Roya Nikkah, so whoever leaked that titbit it certainly wouldn't have been the Sussexes.

 

[Heavs]

By the way, Arthur Edwards, photographer for the Sun newspaper, a tabloid, was allowed to lay a wreath at the ceremony, on behalf of readers of the newspaper, who had contributed to the Poppy Appeal.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13142986/remembrance-sunday-parades-smaller-covid/

The Sun editors, no friends of Harry and Meghan, must have been highly delighted that their representative was allowed to place a wreath but Prince Harry wasn't.

The Sun had the front page story that Harry was devastated by "wreath Snub gate" this morning, they've been fairly neutral on which side they're on so far except announcing another turn in The Rift.

Arthur Edwards laying a wreath on behalf of The Sun which has been a big driving force for the Poppy Appeal going ahead this year doesn't really have much to do with whether or not Harry should have had one laid on his behalf. Allegedly he was the only member of the public allowed the honour. It also wasn't included in the broadcast, which is partly what Harry seems to have wanted given the several photos.

The Duke of Gloucester was absent and a wreath wasn't laid on his behalf. If he wishes to do so on Wednesday or somewhere else that's his prerogative, just as it is Harry's, however I don't think he's going to be making a song and dance about it, whatever happens.

We also don't know if William, Charles or a close friend would have privately laid his expensive wreath somewhere if he had asked, away from all the publicity.

I believe Harry has done a lot of good for veterans and does sincerely care but I also think that the leak to a sympathetic journalist laying the blame squarely at "the men in grey" that were the target in the Scobie book combined with photos then being timed to make the papers is the thing that has made more of a mockery of it than anything else. It's "Lest we forget them"

 

[Curryong]

What 'leak to a sympathetic journalist'? What, about Harry's wreath being refused? That appeared in an article by Roya Nikkah in the Times. I can't imagine that Roya is sympathetic to the Sussexes!

The little snipe about the wreath was leaked by BP men in grey to emphasise how apart Harry is from the rest of the Royal Family, the family's black sheep and outlaw. I don't believe that was a friendly gesture in any way, shape or form.

It may have backfired however, as some sympathy for Harry has been expressed on Twitter and by various commenters such as on Loose Women.

 

[tommy100]

I think we need to be clear here and not let emotions get in the way.

Was Harry told he couldn’t lay a wreath at all or was he told that no one would lay one for him in the main ceremony, e.g after Charles and William? If Harry wanted to call and ask someone within his circle of military friends to lay one the outcome may have been different. The Palace may even had helped facilitate it. The Palace had no choice but turn down a request for any wreath from Harry to be laid in the main service as otherwise it would open the floodgates for Andrew, Prince Michael, heck even Beatrice, Eugenie, and Princess Alexandra to do the same.

Until we know that we don’t know the truth and can’t make judgements.

In regards as to who leaked about the requests, I would say there is as much evidence (if not more) it was H&M as it being BP.

 

[Denville]

I think we need to be clear here and not let emotions get in the way.

Was Harry told he couldn’t lay a wreath at all or was he told that no one would lay one for him in the main ceremony, e.g after Charles and William? If Harry wanted to call and ask someone within his circle of military friends to lay one the outcome may have been different. The Palace may even had helped facilitate it. The Palace had no choice but turn down a request for any wreath from Harry to be laid in the main service as otherwise it would open the floodgates for Andrew, Prince Michael, heck even Beatrice, Eugenie, and Princess Alexandra to do the same.

Until we know that we don’t know the truth and can’t make judgements.

I doubt if he asked.. I know he's not brihgt but he must have realised that he could not be part of the remembrance as an ex owrking Royal. This story has probalby been leaked or floated to make it look like the Hearltless palace wouldlnt let him lay a wreath....

 

[Curryong]

In that case, the Times and Royal correspondent Nikkah, the source of the original story about the wreath, must have done a huge U turn in regard to their attitude to the Sussexes since March. The newspaper has been 100% negative to Harry and Meghan since they left.

 

[tommy100]

It is intriguing to think how this came about IMO. Certainly it does not seem very "Harry" to do it like this. Yes the going to the cemetery and paying respects but not the taking an official photographer. I raise this not as an attempt to get Meghan attacked but to make a point - if Sunshine Sachs are the only people advising them I do hope that soon H&M realise having a PR company be your only advisers is never going to work out.

I think this is a real sad turn of events, whether purposefully or just by chance and poor judgement setting up a "rival" event to the RF is never going to go down well. Doing it to overshadow the Cenotaph service on Remembrance Sunday will IMO devastate the Queen Philip, Charles and William who all take their military duties (even just honoury ones) seriously.

 

[Denville]

In that case, the Times and Royal correspondent Nikkah, the source of the original story about the wreath, must have done a huge U turn in regard to their attitude to the Sussexes since March. The newspaper has been 100% negative to Harry and Meghan since they left.

Papers change their POV quite often, whether temporarily or permanently.. THey want a story and the first Rem Sunday since they left.. was probably boudn to be seen as an opportunity to write a story

 

[Curryong]

Harry has always taken his military duties, not just honorary ones, incredibly seriously, so the Queen, Charles etc certainly aren't alone in that respect.

 

[AC21091968]

Papers change their POV quite often, whether temporarily or permanently.. THey want a story and the first Rem Sunday since they left.. was probably boudn to be seen as an opportunity to write a story

I don't really want to speculate about the order of sequence, but the "opportunity to write a story" is true amongst newspaper. As I have posted in a different thread, The Sunday Mirror released a narrative that "Meghan felt that the British Public didn't understand her". This was based on an interview of Ingrid Seward (Royal biographer) with Fox News. This news story was talked about on social media, particularly amongst critics of Harry and Meghan. The narrative of "Meghan" against "the British public" (on the Mirror) is similar to "Harry" against the courtiers (on the Sunday Times). There is a possibility that the Sunday Times want to continue this narrative that there is a divide between Harry and the palace staffs.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markle-felt-brits-didnt-22970513

Speaking of papers changing their point of view, The Times weren't always positive on right-leaning politicians, especially during the Brexit drama (given that they backed Remain). Michael Gove (former Times journalists) and Jacob Rees-Mogg (son of former Times Editor, William Rees-Mogg) did not have an easy ride, probably because they backed Brexit. I know there is a difference between politicians and members of the royal family, but I was trying to highlight that news publications do have unilateral or stagnant views of public figures.

From reading through Arthur Edwards' twitter feed, I think he was part of the camera crew (for the Sun tabloid) that took pictures of the Remembrance Sunday Service.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325368420926447616

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325584466413285378

Judging by the arrangement and numbers of wreaths, I think Arthur Edwards lay the Sun's wreath (behalf of Sun's readers) after the Service has finished or even at the very end of the service.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325754027787902976

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Two photographs at a cemetery is hardly trying to trump the RF at the Cenotaph. Not everything that Harry, whose heart has always been with vets and serving personnel, is to do with publicity, however much those who dislike him and Meghan try to say so. He was always at Remembrance Day services when he wasn't serving overseas.

Agree; I don't see the fuss. I think people want to pick at every little thing now that the Sussexes have defected from the UK. I understood that a private event meant it was just them, with no other official mourners. Since the Sussexes have a close connection with the military I can see why they published the photo as they couldn't be in London for the Cenotaph service, but they probably still wanted to show followers that they were paying their respects.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[caethi]

The story of Harry not being allowed to lay a wreath appeared in a Times article by Royal Correspendent Roya Nikkah, so whoever leaked that titbit it certainly wouldn't have been the Sussexes.

I am not sure why you are so sure, but each to their own assessment of the situation.

 

[Hallo girl]

What 'leak to a sympathetic journalist'? What, about Harry's wreath being refused? That appeared in an article by Roya Nikkah in the Times. I can't imagine that Roya is sympathetic to the Sussexes!

The little snipe about the wreath was leaked by BP men in grey to emphasise how apart Harry is from the rest of the Royal Family, the family's black sheep and outlaw. I don't believe that was a friendly gesture in any way, shape or form.

It may have backfired however, as some sympathy for Harry has been expressed on Twitter and by various commenters such as on Loose Women.

To be honest any comments from Loose Women panel is nothing to be impressed with.

 

[Tarlita]

So someone on twitter has made a note about the wreath laid by the royals from David Dimbleby's commentary during the Remembrance Sunday ceremony.

Prince Charles
The Monarch's Wreath (not Elizabeth Windsor's wreath)
Prince of Wales Wreath (not Prince Charles' wreath)

Capt of the Intelligence Corps (on behalf of Prince Phillip)
Consort Wreath (not Prince Phillip's nor Duke of Edinburgh's wreath)

(Monarch/Soverign, Consort and Prince of Wales counted as a specified role within the Monarchy. The three represent the nation)

Prince William
Royal Air Force Wreath (not Duke of Cambridge's wreath)

Prince Edward
Royal Wessex Yeomanry Wreath (not Earl of Wessex' wreath)

Princess Anne
The Royal Navy Wreath (not Princess Royal's wreath)

Prince Edward of Kent
The Field Marshall Wreath (not Duke of Kent's wreath)

None of the above are personal wreath. The royals laid the wreaths on behalf of those institution, they were representing them.

I wonder, if the story of rejected wreath is true, whose wreath was it that was supposed to be laid "on behalf of Harry"? The Duke of Sussex' Wreath?

That is excellent information. Thank you for that. As you say on who's behalf is Harry's wreath being laid.

 

[AC21091968]

What 'leak to a sympathetic journalist'? What, about Harry's wreath being refused? That appeared in an article by Roya Nikkah in the Times. I can't imagine that Roya is sympathetic to the Sussexes!

The little snipe about the wreath was leaked by BP men in grey to emphasise how apart Harry is from the rest of the Royal Family, the family's black sheep and outlaw. I don't believe that was a friendly gesture in any way, shape or form.

It may have backfired however, as some sympathy for Harry has been expressed on Twitter and by various commenters such as on Loose Women.

Apart from Jane Moore and Janet Street-Porter, most of the panellists have been very sympathetic towards Harry and Meghan, even after their exit as senior working royals. From watching snippets of Loose Women clips beginning at Harry & Meghan's engagement, the Loose Women have often viewed Harry as a vulnerable individual, who walked behind Diana's coffin. It would not surprised me if they view Diana, Harry and Meghan as victims of "men in grey suit" and the cliche "old, male, pale and stale" archaic monarchy. Saira Khan was initially a supporter of Harry and Meghan, but ever since the accusation of racism as the main source of "Sussex's exit", she has been quite against them.
[...]

In terms of twitter, it depends on who the accounts are. The Sussex squad or Meghan supporters may make the most noises (including Omid Scobie), but so do Meghan's critics, who usually replied under royal correspondents' tweets.

 

[MARG]

I believe the "Harry's wreath" story is totally bogus and just meant to cause him further grief. Harry grew up in the BRF and being who he is I think he couldn't wait to be old enough to perform what he considers to be a Sacred Duty.

No one is going to convince me that Harry doesn't know who and what every single wreath is laid for. Harry's Wreath is just one more vicious canard intended to keep the perception of Harry's co-called arrogant entitlement to the forefront.

As to Harry and Meghan visiting the military cemetery on Remembrance Day? Well that's a no-brainer as he has marked Remembrance Day every year of his life one way or another. Leaving the UK doesn't change who he is and what he believes.

 

[muriel]

As to Harry and Meghan visiting the military cemetery on Remembrance Day? Well that's a no-brainer as he has marked Remembrance Day every year of his life one way or another.

Fair point, but it is just the accompanying fashion / celebrity photographer and multiple pictures being released that people are commenting on

 

[MARG]

^^^^^ I would point out that the BRF are well and truly photographed every year with special attention to the ladies wardrobe and jewelry. This year was no different

I think they got lucky with only the one and Harry wasn't even wearing a black suit.

 

[muriel]

^^^^^ I would point out that the BRF are well and truly photographed every year with special attention to the ladies wardrobe and jewelry. This year was no different

I think they got lucky with only the one and Harry wasn't even wearing a black suit.

Except Harry & Meghan took a photographer along for this "private visit", and then had their office send the pictures around to the media.

 

[Denville]

^^^^^ I would point out that the BRF are well and truly photographed every year with special attention to the ladies wardrobe and jewelry. This year was no different

I think they got lucky with only the one and Harry wasn't even wearing a black suit.

Its hardly the same thing, the women of the RF are photographed as part of the ceremony..... Meghan and Harry went to "mark the occasion of Rem Sunday" but took along a professional photographer. They are now private people. Private people may visit graves on Remembrance day, but they dont take along a photographer and publicise their actions...

 

[Hallo girl]

No one is saying they should not have acknowledged Remembrance Sunday, and if they felt it required a photograph to prove it had happened then fair enough but a series of photographs all issued to the media. I just found the whole thing uncomfortable to look at. That is probably not the right word to use but it is how it made me feel.
Attention seeking.

 

[Hallo girl]

^^^^^ I would point out that the BRF are well and truly photographed every year with special attention to the ladies wardrobe and jewelry. This year was no different

I think they got lucky with only the one and Harry wasn't even wearing a black suit.

The difference is that they do not issue multiple photographs, the media take them and publish them. There are times when it is ridiculous how many photographs are published especially on line of the same person at the same event.
There was a whole series of photographs issued of Harry and Meghan at the cemetery not just one, and as they now insist of having control and only use their choice of photographer they must have agreed it.
It was issued like a royal visit.