Prince Harry Current Events 23: July 2008-May 2009

[Skydragon]

Huh? My claim that your opinions are not facts? You can't be serious there.

Yes I am serious

The burden of providing evidences lies on the accuser.
.... so it's still guesswork.

You are the one who seems to be doing the accusing, do you have any evidence that it is guesswork, which you state categorically? After all, as you said - I am not questioning your right to have an opinion, and certainly yours is held by a vast number of military type and civilians alike - but of course you are.

You said I assumed you implied you had access to either the test results or at the very least some sort of hardcore evidence to work out, indeed, whether Harry had con his way in or not, with such ease. Which is why I asked you to please share. The 'I'm connected to the military, I know' is just not enough unless it's substantiated.

Then I suggest that you read again what has been written, at no point have I ever said "I'm connected to the military, I know", I did say "It is quite easy to work out (even without insider knowledge), for anyone connected to the military" and that includes others on here that hold the same view who for some reason you choose to ignore. It is a fairly easy assumption to make that with a 50% acceptance rate, there will have been at least a 50% failure rate and of those 10% could have had a bad day, upset the RSM etc. But if one of the 50% who failed to make the grade were as able or slightly better than Harry, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that no career officer would put his career on the line over a mark or ten.

I made the wild guess that some people would find that insulting or at least patronising and that is was the point you were trying to make.

Yes, another wild guess!
I would suggest that if you want to continue this exchange, it is taken to the military section.

 

[kimebear]

No one from the military has commented that that Harry did not get his position through anything other than his own merit, nor are they likely to. Unless there is someone here who has been directly involved in the decision making process, this whole conversation is just speculation from both sides.

 

[Idriel]

I believe we are not speaking the same language, so I will start with some definitions:From the Cambridge Dictionaries Online:

FACT :something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information

OPINION:
1 [C] a thought or belief about something or someone:
2 the thoughts or beliefs that a group of people have:

Now that this is settled...

Yes I am serious

Ok. My evidence for stating that your opinion are not facts is that, unless that your are a divine being gifted with omniscience (in which case, what is the colour of my socks?), you have to provide evidences for your beliefs to be upheld as hard facts, like the rest of us mortals

You are the one who seems to be doing the accusing, do you have any evidence that it is guesswork, which you state categorically?

Yes, my evidence is that you haven't provided any evidence.

After all, as you said - I am not questioning your right to have an opinion, and certainly yours is held by a vast number of military type and civilians alike - but of course you are.

No I am not. I am questioning your claim that your opinions are fact, not your right to have an opinion. Please read carefully our exchange.

, I did say "It is quite easy to work out (even without insider knowledge), for anyone connected to the military" and that includes others on here that hold the same view who for some reason you choose to ignore.

Ludicrous claim. I have acknowledged acknowledged that your opinion is shared by many, that was never the issue. What about you ignoring my repeated plea for you to provide evidence to support your claim?

It is a fairly easy assumption to make that with a 50% acceptance rate, there will have been at least a 50% failure rate and of those 10% could have had a bad day, upset the RSM etc. But if one of the 50% who failed to make the grade were as able or slightly better than Harry, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that no career officer would put his career on the line over a mark or ten.

Very sensible and plausible theory. The operative words there are: 'assumption' and 'if'. I.e, you are doing guesswork and you have no proof. I do respect your opinion and I will agree to disagree with it. But you have to accept the difference between fact and opinion (the definitions are on top of this post).

Yes, another wild guess!

My inclusion of 'wild guess' was an attempt at sarcasm, which was lost on you, I see.

I would suggest that if you want to continue this exchange, it is taken to the military section.

Thank you, I am done.
Have a very nice evening.

 

[Skydragon]

I believe we are not speaking the same language,

That is abundantly clear.

FACT :something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information

And as I am sure you are aware, I do not have to submit for your 'examination' any evidence on how I came by my opinion!

Ok. My evidence for stating that your opinion are not facts is that, you have to provide evidences for your beliefs to be upheld as hard facts, like the rest of us mortals

See above and it would appear you have NO evidence at all then, just your opinion, based on a misunderstood or misread sentence!

No I am not. I am questioning your claim that your opinions are fact,

Again where does it state that my opinions are fact, other than your post?

Please read carefully our exchange.

I would suggest you do the same and try to understand what has actually been written, not make a 'wild guess'

Ludicrous claim. I have acknowledged acknowledged that your opinion is shared by many, that was never the issue. What about you ignoring my repeated plea for you to provide evidence to support your claim?

Again, read the thread and note how many other 'military types' you have engaged with on this matter, zero I believe. Neither you nor I have to post personal information such as my information came from my ?????

My inclusion of 'wild guess' was an attempt at sarcasm, which was lost on you, I see.

They do say Sarcasm, or attempt thereof, is the lowest form of wit, .

Sarcasm is proverbially said to be the lowest form of wit. It is often associated with the use of irony. Hostile, critical comments may be expressed in an ironic way such as saying "don't work too hard" to a lazy worker. The use of irony introduces an element of humour which may make the criticism seem more polite and less aggressive but understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

 

[kimebear]

I see subtlety is not working. Let's move on please.

 

[Royal Fan]

When will Prince Henry become a Captain you think 2009 , 2010? just curious.

 

[MBGGfvB]

In the USA it would take 3-4 years generally speaking. Depends. I believe it's similiar in the armed forces of the UK.

 

[Skydragon]

In the USA it would take 3-4 years generally speaking. Depends. I believe it's similiar in the armed forces of the UK.

In the British Army normally after 3 years of service but sometimes a little longer.

 

[ghost_night554]

Oh boy here we go.....
Harry in 'Paki' video storm as MoD and Clarence House are locked in talks to defuse row | Mail Online

 

[Skydragon]

The newspaper said Harry had called the soldier "our little Paki friend".
The trainee officer - identified as "Ahmed" - was unaware of the racist comment as officer cadets made the recording, it added.


Harry sorry over using racist term - Yahoo! News UK

 

[Amelia]

I would ask what was he thinking but it’s pretty obvious he wasn’t.

Although if the video was made while he was at Sandhurst, 3 years ago, I wonder why is it only coming out now?

 

[Jacknch]

Hmm, I think I'm gonna sleep on this one and see if any further information comes out about it.

 

[tommy1716]

Oh what a sight this will be to see played out in the press. In fairness Harry was wrong but it was three years ago, what was he then, 21/22 years old? I think he has matured alot since then. That being said wouldn't you just try to avoid using such language, especially on a VIDEO? I mean even if he does have some desire to use this language you would think he would have the sense not to do it on a video which could emerge years later as hard evidence.

Wonder how long it will take for the press office from Clarence House to have him fighting the Taliban singley handedly or finding a cure for cancer in some hastily arranged "public engagements"

 

[ghost_night554]

Normally, I'd be pretty upset about this but it was 3 years ago and IMO Harry seems to have matured since then and maybe the video wasn't supposed to be shown in public maybe that's why he was using that language, didn't the statement say it was just a nickname. I doubt CH is going to act out the way they did with William last year I mean like I said it was 3 years ago even I've changed.

 

[Amelia]

didn't the statement say it was just a nickname

To be honest I’ve never heard as a nickname, it was always used as an insult but perhaps times have changed and now its used as a nickname.

Some more of the tape:Watch Prince Harry's racist outbursts on video | News | News Of The World

 

[ghost_night554]

The more I read about the video the more I'm thinking Harry was just goofing off, being young and not thinking, I've done it before where I say things and I don't think, and to be honest with you it doesn't seem to me like the tape was supposed to be shown to the public in the first place. I don't see why they need to look into this I HIGHLY doubt Harry was trying to offend anyone, I doubt they'll find anything anyways. And if does say anywhere that he knew that they were going to be released to the public please let me know.

 

[christinacg]

The more I read about the video the more I'm thinking Harry was just goofing off, being young and not thinking, .

I totally agree. I think the things he was saying, while not always the best thing for a Prince to be saying on video, is nothing different from the types of things all of his comrades say. I don't think he is purposely trying to be offensive. Like the Paki term, when he said it it came off kind of affectionate and not hateful. I dunno, not the smartest thing for Harry to do considering his history, and I'm sure this will draw a lot of negative attention to him, but I don't personally see much wrong with it.

Question? Did this JUST break? And is it headline news in the UK? Just curious as to how the media is handling it.

 

[ghost_night554]

Just wanted to add seems like the video wasn't meant to be seen by the public

The video— obtained by the News of the World—

And the Ministry of Defence said last night: “This sort of language is not acceptable in a modern army.”

Asked about the Prince's remarks, an MoD spokesman said: 'Neither the Army nor the Armed Forces tolerates inappropriate behaviour in any shape or form.
'The Army takes all allegations of inappropriate behaviour very seriously and all substantive allegations are investigated.

'We are not aware of any complaint having been made by the individual. Bullying and racism are not endemic in the Armed Forces.'

but obviously Harry didn't mean it in an offensive way if you watch the video you can tell he isn't serious.

Prince Harry used the term without any malice and as a nickname about a highly popular member of his platoon. “There is no question that Prince Harry was in any way seeking to insult his friend.

 

[Idriel]

Watch Prince Harry's racist outbursts on video | News | News Of The World

Thank you for the video.
Harry is hilarious .

Even funnier is NOTW 'outrage' at an army boy using slang and rude terms (of course, soldiers conversation usually sound straight off an Evelyn Waugh novel).
I won't even get into the pure comedy that is NOTW (the Sun's sister paper) and the Daily Mail, both the most bigoted, xenophobic and fascist publications in England calling anyone a racist.

Now of course the PC freaks will be branding him a White Supremacist, but I think the Black and Asian soldiers and Gurkas who have served with him and spoke highly of him won't be too ruffled. I hope that's only what matters to him.

In fairness Harry was wrong but it was three years ago, what was he then, 21/22 years old? I think he has matured alot since then.

I don't think that has to anything to do with maturity and I'm sure he would say that even today, considering it was obviously not said out of racial hatred or bigotry, but as part of a army banter.
Was is rude? Yes. Just as rude as a fellow soldier asking him about the colour of his pubes. By army standards, I would say that tape is extra tame.

 

[ghost_night554]

I don't think it was rude considering it seems like they all knew each other was joking with their remarks, to me if a particular soldier had complained then I'd understand.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I think that the real issues here are who leaked this and why. For profit? To undermine the reputation of the member of the Royal Family? I don't particularly care for Harry's remarks (in fact, I find them distasteful), but I think it's safe to say that soldiers are under a lot of stress and find humour where they can.

 

[tommy1716]

Question? Did this JUST break? And is it headline news in the UK? Just curious as to how the media is handling it.

The News of the World has the story and the video, this newspaper is a Sunday Paper so the news has only come to light this evening as the first editions of the papers were made avilable to the media. Both the BBC and Sky News channels are covering the story, the BBC has that "HArry has apologised about racist remarks made three years ago" as it story - seeming to focus alot on the statements made by Clarence House and St James' Palace. The BBC has covered the news modestly - its top news story at the moment but not being overdone. However Sky has been running the video clips from the News of the World pretty much every 15 mins, has had a "media expert" and a former Buckingham Palace press secretary on air and spoken to several other people about the racist remarks and whether they are offensive.
From the newspaper reviews on BBC and Sky of tommorow (Sunday) papers it seems most will feature the story on their front pages.
The media (even the BBC) have used this incident to relfect back on Harry's "other mistakes" - the drug taking, the Nazi uniform costume etc.

However as the news hasn't broken till late tonight most people are unawre of it at the moment so it will be intresting to see what comments are made to the News channels and on newspaper websites.

 

[christinacg]

Hmm, so it sounds like its being made into a big deal over there. Interesting to see what the reaction is over the next few days. I was reading comments at NOTW website and most were supportive of Harry, to my suprise.

 

[ghost_night554]

I think that the real issues here are who leaked this and why. For profit? To undermine the reputation of the member of the Royal Family? I don't particularly care for Harry's remarks (in fact, I find them distasteful), but I think it's safe to say that soldiers are under a lot of stress and find humour where they can.

Exactly like I said it seems as though this was a private video hence the remarks I think Harry used them cause he didn't expect them to be leaked all over the world and the other soldiers seemed to find it humorous, I don't know why they aren't allowed to use those words especially if the other soldiers don't seem to mind but I don't specialize in that area so I'm going to stay out of it. How did NOTW get the video that's the big question, that's what I'd like to know.

ETA: I hate the fact the Mail end the article by mentioning how back in September Harry spent £5,000 on a night out, like come on do we even know if that's' true?

 

[Royal Fan]

This will blow over cmon people, I Understand it was wrong but....It happened we should move on

 

[ghost_night554]

I totally agree, whatever happened, happened obviously no one was bothered by it since nothing was said all these years.

ETA I also agree with the poster below.

 

[seajat]

Harry's Video

Anyone who would take that video seriously doesn't have two brain cells to rub together. It's not meant to be taken seriously! I laughed out loud at the end when he's barking out 'orders' to his men and one asks him the *ginger* question. That was hilarious!

It's the army. They can be a cheeky bunch. I've heard that occassionally they swear! And say offensive things! OMG! There was no malice in that video. It's a video of a guy doing his job, which includes a LOT of waiting around, standing around, and sitting around. At some point you're going to go for a laugh or joke or you'd be bored out of your mind. And if you think people in the army are going to go for dainty jokes, um, think again.

The real loser is News of the World. They are a super low class tabloid. I go to their website just to read the totally made up articles and laught at them. My favorite is when they do a story with some skanky American girl who claims to have slept with a famous person and they forget to write the made up quotes in American venacular, so they'll have her saying "I was going to ring him up, but then I decided not to." You gotta work on that NOTW if you want us to believe those stories are true!

 

[Iluvbertie]

Exactly like I said it seems as though this was a private video hence the remarks I think Harry used them cause he didn't expect them to be leaked all over the world and the other soldiers seemed to find it humorous, I don't know why they aren't allowed to use those words especially if the other soldiers don't seem to mind but I don't specialize in that area so I'm going to stay out of it. How did NOTW get the video that's the big question, that's what I'd like to know.

ETA: I hate the fact the Mail end the article by mentioning how back in September Harry spent £5,000 on a night out, like come on do we even know if that's' true?

The reason that they can't use those words is that they have been used deliberately as derogative terms against specific groups of people. It is the same as using the 'n....' word in the USA when referring to people of Afro-American background. That is completely unaccptable and so is the use of the terms Harry used. They are words that should never cross a person's lips regardless of the circumstances.

I had very little respect for Harry before this but this just lowers it even further. There is something lacking in this yourg man's understanding of the world and the people within it, probably due to something lacking in his education.

 

[ghost_night554]

The reason that they can't use those words is that they have been used deliberately as derogative terms against specific groups of people. It is the same as using the 'n....' word in the USA when referring to people of Afro-American background. That is completely unaccptable and so is the use of the terms Harry used. They are words that should never cross a person's lips regardless of the circumstances.

I had very little respect for Harry before this but this just lowers it even further. There is something lacking in this yourg man's understanding of the world and the people within it, probably due to something lacking in his education.

Ok, I still think Harry was using it in a light hearted manner and it seemed like none of the other soldiers minded actually seems like they went along with it, and had a good laugh I've heard alot of people here use the n word in light hearted situations and not get in trouble, they took it well and also had a good laugh about it I certainly don't think it means they're lacking in any way, I think Harry is aware he shouldn't use it in places that wouldn't be appropriate just like most people wouldn't use the n word in serious circumstances. That's just how I feel atleast, like I said I`m not expert, and I really still don`t understand why they can`t use those words while in the army, mean I get their rude and your not really supposed to use them, that`s a given but I didn`t think they actually went ahead and banned them from using those types of words, but anyways. IMO I hope they don`t launch an investigation, I don`t think it`s needed, you`d have to be dumb to not realize he was just joking.

 

[ada]

It was all just a bit of fun, and goodness knows they need it, who'd want to be a soldier these days; and why anyone would be dragging it out after all this time, was it going to be some sort of blackmail attempt