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  #601  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:20 PM
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I disagree with most of you. Infanta Cristina, as far as I know, was acquitted. An acquittal, in my books, means you should treat the person who got acquitted as if nothing ever happened. That's what acquittals are for. And if you now start to treat people acquitted (by a judge, who did his job) as if they were convicted you trample the very essence of what a judical system should be for. If that happens, why have democratic states with free, independent judical systems in the first place? If you ignore their verdicts anyway?

If it was up to me, Infanta Cristina would resume Royal duties, be present for family affairs, events abroad, etc. And yes, I would even restore her Ducal title.

EDIT: Infanta Cristina's husband, who was convicted, is another story, of course. He should stay in the shadows until he served his term.

best wishes Michiru
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  #602  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:21 PM
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queen Juliana threatened to abdicate if her husband Prince Bernhard was trialed for accepting a US$1.1 million bribe , i don't understand why people think cristina became the devil just because she stood by the father of her children and didn't participate in the witch hunt .
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  #603  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
They are all distantly related through Christian IX of Denmark, but not nearly close enough to ignore the high profile case. Norway and the Netherlands may not be Spain, but it's still, imo, a bad idea to invite Cristina and especially Inaki given the situation.
The royal families of Spain and Norway are related through their common descent from both KIng Christian IX of Denmark and Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom. Through Queen Victoria, both King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia are third cousins to King Harald V; through Christian IX, Queen Sofia and King Harald V are also third cousins. In any case, King Felipe VI and the Infantas would be third cousins once removed to King Harald and fourth cousins to CP Haakon.

Here are the lines of descent (note that Queen Sofia descends twice both from Queen Victoria and King Christian IX !) :


Lines of descent from Queen Victoria

Queen Victoria -> Edward VII -> Maud of Wales -> Olav V -> Harald V

Queen Victoria -> Princess Beatrice -> Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg -> Infante Juan, Count of Barcelona -> King Juan Carlos

Queen Victoria -> Victoria, Princess Royal -> Sophia of Prussia -> Paul of Greece -> Queen Sofia

and, also (one further generation)

Queen Victoria -> Victoria, Princess Royal -> Wilheim II, German Emperor -> Victoria Luise of Prussia -> Frederika of Hanover -> Queen Sofia


Lines of descent from Christian IX

Christian IX -> Frederik VIII -> Ingeborg of Denmark -> Märtha of Sweden -> Harald V

Christian IX -> George I of Greece -> Constantine I of Greece -> Paul of Greece --> Queen Sofia

also

Christian IX -> Thyra of Denmark -> Ernst Augusts of Brunswick -> Frederika of Hanover -> Queen Sofia
  #604  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
I disagree with most of you. Infanta Cristina, as far as I know, was acquitted. An acquittal, in my books, means you should treat the person who got acquitted as if nothing ever happened. That's what acquittals are for. And if you now start to treat people acquitted (by a judge, who did his job) as if they were convicted you trample the very essence of what a judical system should be for. If that happens, why have democratic states with free, independent judical systems in the first place? If you ignore their verdicts anyway?

If it was up to me, Infanta Cristina would resume Royal duties, be present for family affairs, events abroad, etc. And yes, I would even restore her Ducal title.

EDIT: Infanta Cristina's husband, who was convicted, is another story, of course. He should stay in the shadows until he served his term.

best wishes Michiru
From the opinions of the Spanish people on this forum, it seems like very few Spaniards want Cristina back and I don't blame them. she may have been acquitted (let us not pretend as if Rich people don't get away with their crimes all of the time), but that doesn't mean she's blameless. Not to mention, her attitude this whole time has been entirely off-putting. I think letting her return to work as an Infanta and representative of the Spanish royal family could have potentially disastrous consequences for the future of the monarch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
queen Juliana threatened to abdicate if her husband Prince Bernhard was trialed for accepting a US$1.1 million bribe , i don't understand why people think cristina became the devil just because she stood by the father of her children and didn't participate in the witch hunt .
No one thinks shes the devil, as far as I see. But she's not blameless for standing by a man committing a crime. She could have stood by Inaki while still not condoning his actions, but instead they both want to present a front that they've done no wrong when the evidence shows otherwise.

(and no, Juliana was not correct in her actions either. But this is a little bit different)
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  #605  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:57 PM
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She will never return to official activities because under Spanish law the king's sisters are not part of the Royal Family and therefore, have no official activities.

Cristina has not been sentenced to prison, but she has been ordered to pay. She is acquitted of the criminal offense, but not of civil responsibility. So she is not totally innocent, but is guilty of having benefited from money that her husband obtained illegally. That's what the judges have sentenced.
  #606  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:01 PM
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I'd imagine that we will most defiantly see Infanta Cristina at any royal gatherings,thats not to say that she may still be invited.

Unless there's a funeral in the Greek or Spanish RF we won't see Infanta Cristina at royal events.
  #607  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:20 PM
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i'd give it a couple of years tell the case fade away for a reconciliation between the infanta and the royal family , if prince rainier could reconcile with his sister Princess Antoinette after she plotted to depose her brother and declare herself regent i think that the king would reconcile with his sister .
  #608  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
i'd give it a couple of years tell the case fade away for a reconciliation between the infanta and the royal family , if prince rainier could reconcile with his sister Princess Antoinette after she plotted to depose her brother and declare herself regent i think that the king would reconcile with his sister .
a reconciliation does not mean she will attend events again. Cristina rarely attended things outside of Spain to begin with. And as long as there are tensions between the monarchy and its people, I don't think the case will fade from people's minds, especially if there's any sense of a push to have Cristina attend events.
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  #609  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
[...] because under Spanish law the king's sisters are not part of the Royal Family [...]
Is membership of the Royal Family not the personal prerogative of the sovereign?
  #610  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Is membership of the Royal Family not the personal prerogative of the sovereign?
There is a difference between members of the Royal Family and the Family of the King. The Royal Decree of 1981 says the Royal Family consists of the Monarch, the spouse of the monarch, the monarch's parents, and the heir to the throne (and I think his other children, but admittedly my Spanish is not that good).

It's the same thing in Norway. The Royal House is the monarch, the monarch's spouse, the heir apparent and his/her spouse, and the eldest child of the heir apparent. Whereas the Royal Family includes other children, grandchildren, etc of the monarch.
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  #611  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
Oh please.

Cristina & Inaki committed a crime and have not taken responsibility for it. They don't deserve anyone's support. Did they commit the worst crime ever? No, but I have no respect for people who want to pretend they've done nothing wrong when caught. If you show no remorse, then I don't have any respect for you.

I don't think, for public events, that Cristina should be invited to anything, regardless of familial connection. It would be different if she were invited to Martha Louise's birthday as those are no longer public events. But Harald & Willem's birthdays are huge public events and I don't consider it a good idea, especially so soon after the end of the case, to invite her.

If they ever want to take responsibility for what they've done and work to get back good favor, that would be one thing. Until then, I don't agree with inviting her and him to public/official events.
i agree. if i were any RF, i would not invite them to any events. not official (like harald's or WA's birthday), not unofficial (such as ML's). it's just too risky unfortunately as their reputation can also be impacted by having them.
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  #612  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:22 PM
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Disregarding the debate over attendance at foreign events in the future, is there evidence at all that Cristina has any interest in participating in future official events for the Spanish RF? Between their own work, children, extended family, friends, (in addition to Inaki's ongoing legal issues), both Cristina and her sister seem to have full lives of their own.

Even if there had been no Noos case, Elena and Cristina were always going to be phased out of royal duties; the fact that Juan Carlos abdicated meant it happened a few years earlier than it would have had he reigned until his death. From the limited amounts of information we get, both Infantas seem to have planned for this eventuality, and neither seems to be pining for their lost official lives the way the press tries to make out, for Cristina especially.
  #613  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:31 PM
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May they wear their Sashes of the Royal Orders?
  #614  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
May they wear their Sashes of the Royal Orders?
I think so, as long as the orders aren't recalled (that happens rarely). But they won't really have the opportunities to do so these days.
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  #615  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:29 AM
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The Assembly of Madrid approved a move to rename the Infanta Cristina Hospital and it will now be called the Hospital Of Parla!

'Infanta Cristina', el nombre maldito que urge borrar en toda España

Translation.

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url
  #616  
Old 03-26-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
The Assembly of Madrid approved a move to rename the Infanta Cristina Hospital and it will now be called the Hospital Of Parla!
Now honestly, this really confuses me. If Cristina was found innocent of crime and only her husband must spend a few years in jail, why the changing of name. Court found her blameless. Asked same question to friend in Spain and she said that case is still the #1 topic of conversation at private social events. Common knowledge there is that "she got away with it because of her Daddy's health and love for her mother". Backdoor deals were made. They feel she really was no innocent in the entire affair. But, legally she is blameless so publically I don't know what grounds these changes are made. Now don't get me wrong, I think she threw her husband under the bus and let him take fall for everything. He, of course agreed for the sake of his children. Decent parent.

Could someone else in Spain [the only ones that actually know] please tell us if in fact the citizens believe the court ruling 100% on Cristina or quite the opposite. Just very interested on my part. Thank you
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  #617  
Old 03-26-2017, 02:04 PM
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We have already discussed this on this same thread. She has not been sentenced to jail, but she has not been declared innocent either. The Court considered she benefitted from her husband's illegal bussiness and so she had to pay a penalty fee. She has not go away chargeless.

And any way, she's as unpopular as could ever be, and with the current trend of populists politics going on in Spain and everywhere, such actions as reneming the hospital of Parla are to be expected. Goodness, even Madrid's city hall has voted to remove King Felipe's name from a park for no reason at all, what wouldn't they do with the unpopular "thief Infanta" to get some headlines...
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  #618  
Old 03-26-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
We have already discussed this on this same thread. She has not been sentenced to jail, but she has not been declared innocent either. The Court considered she benefitted from her husband's illegal bussiness and so she had to pay a penalty fee. She has not go away chargeless.

And any way, she's as unpopular as could ever be, and with the current trend of populists politics going on in Spain and everywhere, such actions as reneming the hospital of Parla are to be expected. Goodness, even Madrid's city hall has voted to remove King Felipe's name from a park for no reason at all, what wouldn't they do with the unpopular "thief Infanta" to get some headlines...
Thank you. It is very interesting to read the comments of someone who actually lives in the Country, to see the real impact of the events.
  #619  
Old 03-27-2017, 07:46 AM
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I agree with you Rominet , but Thief Infanta ...
  #620  
Old 04-01-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
Oh please.

Cristina & Inaki committed a crime and have not taken responsibility for it. They don't deserve anyone's support. Did they commit the worst crime ever? No, but I have no respect for people who want to pretend they've done nothing wrong when caught. If you show no remorse, then I don't have any respect for you.

I don't think, for public events, that Cristina should be invited to anything, regardless of familial connection. It would be different if she were invited to Martha Louise's birthday as those are no longer public events. But Harald & Willem's birthdays are huge public events and I don't consider it a good idea, especially so soon after the end of the case, to invite her.

If they ever want to take responsibility for what they've done and work to get back good favor, that would be one thing. Until then, I don't agree with inviting her and him to public/official events.
Not only I agree but roughly 80% of Spaniards will agree with your post as well. There is no respect for Cristina, a woman who always enjoyed a privileged royal life and ended up "enjoying" her husband's fiscal fraud as well.
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