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  #201  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:46 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I expect to see a lot of merchandising Eugenie's title, once she is married. It's not that she is rich according to Royal standards and both her parents and Jack have used their connections to do business on a regular basis.
What makes you say this? I see nothing of Andrew and Sarah's eagerness to abuse their titles, for want of a better phrase, in Eugenie. She's settled in her life away from royalty, she has a solid job and is clearly passionate about her patronages and promoting the work they do. I don't see why she would merchandise her title, after she is married, when she hasn't done that before?

Am I to assume that when Eugenie is married, she will be HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbanks?

I'm basing this purely on Princess Alexandras title upon marriage which was HRH Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Mrs Angus Oglivy.
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  #202  
Old 08-19-2018, 10:44 AM
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I know that it I see odd but I couldn’t be surprised if Eugenie herself requests that her title and HRH is removed after the wedding.
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  #203  
Old 08-19-2018, 11:44 AM
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Eugenie herself requests that her title and HRH is removed after the wedding.
I agree.. 'Mr Jack and Lady Eugenie Brooksbank' wouldn't surprise me at all..
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  #204  
Old 08-19-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I agree.. 'Mr Jack and Lady Eugenie Brooksbank' wouldn't surprise me at all..
It would surprise me pig simply becaus that would require a new title for her.

And why? It wouldn't change her life. She would still be the granddaughter of the Queen. Eugenie may have a career but she is also very devoted to her list of patronages. Her title helps bring more attention and that is a good thing when talking charities.

Nothing about her adult life implies she intends to simply disappear into obscurity.
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  #205  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I agree.. 'Mr Jack and Lady Eugenie Brooksbank' wouldn't surprise me at all..
all she has to do is to say that she wishes to not be known by her title. and I presume that at work, people don't cursty and call her YRH nad Ma'am....
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  #206  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:55 PM
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Whatever her title, I still think it's too bad Jack won't get an earldom. It costs nothing, and that way their children will be titled. O well.
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  #207  
Old 08-19-2018, 01:01 PM
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There is no reason for Jack to get an earldom. ANne's husbands didn't want or get titles.. Titles are not given out now just for marrying a princess - in fact hereditary titles have not been given now for years...
and most men would prefer to make their way in their careers without the burden of a title or people saying that they 'only did well because they were lord so and so"...
and If he did get a title,their children would only have courtesy titles...
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  #208  
Old 08-19-2018, 01:19 PM
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I still say a title is nice to have.

Otherwise, why do so many people try to buy one?

(It was quite a scandal years ago, with members of the nobility selling off their subsidiary titles. I think one of the Queen's own cousins did this. Why, if people wouldn't want to have them?)
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  #209  
Old 08-19-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Yep , can’t agree more - DoE will go to the wedding pose for the photos and do nothing to damage the day for his granddaughter. He has class.

I know that it I see odd but I couldn’t be surprised if Eugenie herself requests that her title and HRH is removed after the wedding.

Why would she do that ? She is a princess by birth and there is no reason why she should be stripped of her title.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I still say a title is nice to have.

Otherwise, why do so many people try to buy one?

(It was quite a scandal years ago, with members of the nobility selling off their subsidiary titles. I think one of the Queen's own cousins did this. Why, if people wouldn't want to have them?)

It is not possible to buy a title of nobility from someone else. Nobility can only be either inherited or given out by grace of a sovereign. So the scandal you heard about must be fake news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
Or Mirabel was right that you can do such and you were just uninformed about the situation.
Here is an article about someone buying an Irish lordship and how the process to get one works. Though while you may not necessarily get any privileges, it is in name. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobs.../#fcc3dd86be50

And also a famous example of another way to get a title, through adoption. This was done for Zsa Zsa Gabor's last husband and he did it for others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%...inz_von_Anhalt

British peerages cannot be bought. An Irish lordship is not a peerage. Actually, the Forbes article itself clarifies that.


Quote:


The sale of British titles is prohibited by the Honours (Prevention of Abuses) Act, 1925. However, misleading advertisements for lordships of manors sometimes appear in the media and on the internet. A manorial lordship is not an aristocratic title, but a semi-extinct form of landed property. Lordship in this sense is a synonym for ownership. According to John Martin Robinson, co-author of The Oxford Guide to Heraldry, "It cannot be stated on a passport, and does not entitle the owner to a coat of arms. Beware also of websites selling completely bogus British titles.”
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  #210  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I still say a title is nice to have.

Otherwise, why do so many people try to buy one?

(It was quite a scandal years ago, with members of the nobility selling off their subsidiary titles. I think one of the Queen's own cousins did this. Why, if people wouldn't want to have them?)
?? You can't Sell off subsidiary titles... the only titles that matter are those bestowed by the Crown....
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  #211  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:27 PM
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I am not saying these sales are necessarily legitimate.

But they do occur.
And at one time they did create a scandal when some of the nobility sold them. I believe reading that Lord Lichfield was one.

(In fact, the USA comic Doonesbury spoofed this, with a major character winning the lottery and using it to buy a title. He became Viscount St. Austell-in-the-Moor-Biggleswade-Brixham).

And I think it was Lord Bradford who campaigned to outlaw sales of fraudulent titles, when his own son's courtesy title was up for sale.

But all of this was some time ago.
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  #212  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:31 PM
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^ This is 'GOSPEL', Mbruno - purchasing a 'Lordship of the Manor' entitles the holder of the piece of paper to NOTHING beyond an extinct feudal 'right'..

I've told this story her before, so forgive me, if I bore you with it again]. When I worked in International Banking I had an American Client who 'invested' in one, hoping to buy a veneer of grandeur wholly lacking from his family and life [despite having POTS of money].
He INSISTED on being addressed as 'your Lordship' both in person, and in correspondence, and [obv] 'your Ladyship' for the [3rd] wife.
When I backed up my [and the Bank's refusal] to co-operate with confirmation from the College of Heralds, he was outraged, went to my boss , claiming to have been 'humiliated'.
My boss, married [as luck would have it] to the daughter of a Marquess, and fearfully grand himself, was having 'none of it' and fortunately backed me to the hilt..
But increasingly unpleasant legal letters were batted to and fro for MONTHS, until he withdrew ALL his funds, and went to try to 'buy' compliance elsewhere.
We felt we were 'well rid' of him..
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  #213  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post

I am not saying these sales are necessarily legitimate.

But they do occur.
And at one time they did create a scandal when some of the nobility sold them. I believe reading that Lord Lichfield was one.

(In fact, the USA comic Doonesbury spoofed this, with a major character winning the lottery and using it to buy a title. He became Viscount St. Austell-in-the-Moor-Biggleswade-Brixham).

And I think it was the late Duke of Bedford who campaigned to outlaw sales of fraudulent titles, when his own son's courtesy title was up for sale.

But all of this was some time ago.
Lord Lichfield? what title did he sell? It is not possible to sell titles... and I cannot imaigine htat anyone in the peerage would do such a thing.. particularly soemoene who is a cousin of the queens...
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  #214  
Old 08-19-2018, 03:00 PM
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I don't think Eugenie will give up her title after the wedding, this wedding is not the wedding of someone who is about to give up HRH status IMO.
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  #215  
Old 08-19-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Lord Lichfield? what title did he sell? It is not possible to sell titles... and I cannot imaigine htat anyone in the peerage would do such a thing.. particularly soemoene who is a cousin of the queens...
I don't know that he actually went through with it, and I recall reading that the whole thing annoyed the Queen.

Of course I know it isn't possible to actually sell such titles; I should have said that they were only selling the use of the name.

Then there are the sites that sell fraudulent ones.

But there is a market for such things, genuine or not.
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  #216  
Old 08-19-2018, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't know that he actually went through with it, and I recall reading that the whole thing annoyed the Queen.

Of course I know it isn't possible to actually sell such titles; I should have said that they were only selling the use of the name.

Then there are the sites that sell fraudulent ones.

But there is a market for such things, genuine or not.
why one earth would Lichfield do soemting that is not legal, is he so hard up for cash? Just checked,hadn't realised that he died so long ago, but I can't find a story on his attempting to sell a title....
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  #217  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:45 PM
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I sincerely believe that Eugenie will keep her title of Princess. Even if Jack does not receive a title, Then so be it! TITLES DO NOT MAKE THE PERSON. THEIR ACTIONS DO.
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  #218  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:57 PM
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The title problem is very easily solved. In the circles Eugenie travels in, most of the people within them are not strangers. All she has to do is say "just call me Eugenie" and the issue of how to address her is resolved.

I've been married twice which spans over 45 years and very rarely am addressed as "Mrs. X". If I am, it sounds totally foreign to me. In fact, when I first married years ago, I was sitting at my kitchen table with my mother-in-law and the phone rang asking for Mrs. X. I handed the phone to her. Go figure.
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  #219  
Old 08-19-2018, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
I sincerely believe that Eugenie will keep her title of Princess. Even if Jack does not receive a title, Then so be it! TITLES DO NOT MAKE THE PERSON. THEIR ACTIONS DO.
Why would she lose the style of Princess? Alexandra - also a male line granddaughter of a monarch didn't when she married. She is the last such person to marry and has remained Princess Alexandra since her marriage.

The only way Eugenie would lose HRH and Princess is if there were new LPs issued to reduce those who are HRH Prince/Princess to the children of the heir apparent only. I can see that happening at some time in the future - possibly as early as when Charles becomes King so that even Harry's children don't change from Lord/Lady to Prince/Princess (assuming that HM doesn't issue LPs to grand them that style from birth).

If Charles does want to make the BRF smaller than that is a step he will have to take at some point and better to do it early rather than later. It is why I believe Edward had the Queen deny his children the style of HRH by using only 'her will' rather than LPs so that those who already had HRH from birth but from younger sons didn't lose it. If he does that he will either have to make an exception for those who have had it from birth but no longer qualify OR he will have to strip them,as George V did in 1917. Maybe encouraging the girls to give it up voluntarily would be a good way to go anyway

The fact that Charlotte's children won't be entitled to HRH but Louis' will and yet Charlotte's children will be higher in the line of succession to Louis' is also going to require new LPs - either to make the number of royals larger in number by having Charlotte's children as HRHs or to restrict them to only the children of the heir apparent and his/her line - so George's children but not Charlotte's or Louis' or Harry's.
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  #220  
Old 08-19-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
It would surprise me pig simply becaus that would require a new title for her.
Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot think of any royal born prince(ss) in Europe who lost their royal rank in the late 20th or 21st century, except due to marrying without the consent of the monarch in countries like Denmark.

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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
It felt weird to Philip and Henrik, but they also grew up in a time where reigning queens were not so common. I suspect having years of three simultaneous monarchies headed by women (Elizabeth, Margarethe, Beatrix) will have made the Prince Consort title feel much more normal to men like Daniel and whomever eventually become the next generation of consorts in Belgium, Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands.
Norway also has a female heir, although as far as I know there has been no decision about her future husband's title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
If Charles does want to make the BRF smaller than that is a step he will have to take at some point and better to do it early rather than later. It is why I believe Edward had the Queen deny his children the style of HRH by using only 'her will' rather than LPs so that those who already had HRH from birth but from younger sons didn't lose it. If he does that he will either have to make an exception for those who have had it from birth but no longer qualify OR he will have to strip them,as George V did in 1917. Maybe encouraging the girls to give it up voluntarily would be a good way to go anyway
The 1917 letters patent made an exception for those who no longer qualified (for the style of HH) but who had been granted their style by letters patent, which included the Fifes and Schleswig-Holsteins. It's very likely that any new letters patent would allow those who already have HRH to retain it.
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