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In Italy only the children and grandchildren of the Kings of Italy and of the Two Sicilies can carry the title of Royal Prince (of Italy or of Bourbon-Two Sicilies).
mafan.......what about the members of the house of bourbon parma !!. members of this italian ducal family bears the title of prince and princess of bourbon-parma with the qualification HRH.....or have i missunderstood something here ?
mafan.......what about the members of the house of bourbon parma !!. members of this italian ducal family bears the title of prince and princess of bourbon-parma with the qualification HRH.....or have i missunderstood something here ?
Yes, when I asked about Royal Princes vs. Noble Princes, I didn't mean a prince bearing the style HRH (His Royal Highness). I was referencing a general class of individuals defined as royality and princes (Imperial Princes through Princely Counts) or those of HIH HRH HSH HILLH. My question was not specifically those who bear the title HRH Prince in Italy.
A Princely Count (HILLH), for example, is someone of the royal social class and defined as a prince. While noble princes, like the Boromeo family (as confirmed above), have the title prince, but are not of the royal social class (or a prince who is HIH HRH HSH or HILLH). Someone of HILLH Count, is substantially higher and infact royalty, versus a noble family who happens to have the title of Prince, but is substantiall lower and not of the royal social class.
Parma are still members of the Austrian Imperial House, so that's why they carry the titles of Archdukes of Austria and Princes of Hungary and Bohemia, and therefore Imperial and Royal Highnesses.
There was a question about various Italian titles that use Count. The following is a list that ranks lowest to highest.
Conte:
This would be a noble count, ranking between a Viscount and a Marquis. The title was granted by concessione (concession) and registered as Conte. or Conte (m.), for the male members of the House. The title is written as Count.
Conte Palatino:
This would be a Count Palatine, or a nobleman who was given authority to rule over his county freely without answering to anyone above him. Count Palatines could marry members of royalty, and still be legitimate unions. It was granted by concession and registered as Conte (Palat.). The title translates as a "High Count". The title is written as Count.
Conte Maschera:
This would be a princely count (Gerfursteter Graf). Conte Maschera's are a type of prince of the royal social class, typically of cadet branches to a royal or imperial house. The title must be issued with Decreto Reale (con D.R.)and with the process of sottodescitto (princely underwriting) to fully elevate to the dignity of a Princely Count. The title is registered as Conte (Masch.) The title translates as a "Count of Royal Dress". It is coupled with the princely style His Illustrious Highness. The title is written H.Ill.H. Count.
This is the point: the styles you listed are used by the members of ruling or ex ruling families inside the Holy Roman Empire; now most of them are considered only nobles, but at the time they had just stopped to be rulers due to the dissolution of the HRE.In fact, that's why a set or princely styles were standardized at the Congress of Vienna, HIH HRH HSH HILLH. It was so it was easier to know who was of the royal social class.
So why to list it among the Italian "types" of Counts?Princely Count is not a title used within Italy
This is getting unnecessarily messy and confusing, and isn't complex but quite straightforward.But we seem to have confussion in what we are calling the 'Royal Social Class' in comparison to the 'Noble Social Class". Noble families who bear the title Princely Count, were allowed to marry members of Royalty, it is a title included within the royal social class. Nobles who do not have a title of highness could not marry within the royal social class. Maybe, I'm not writing clearly, but these are complex topics we are dealing with now.
Count Palatine's could marry Royals and that was a legitimate marriage.
I understand what you mean, Next Star; but I would change the first example, since Emanuele Filiberto's (I guess you were thinking about him) being a royal is a rather disputed matter; another example may be Prince Amedeo, who is and undisputed Royal.
About the second, do you mean Lorenzo Borghese?
It is also possible to register in the website, and see the genealogies of most of these listed families.
It happened in the same period when also the Duke of Savoy and the Grand Duke of Tuscany were recognized by the Holy Roman Emperor as Royal Highnesses.
The title was given to Duke Vittorio Amedeo II of Savoy in 1689 when he broke his alliance with France;