Richard III (1452-1485): Discovery of Remains and Reburial


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I don't often log on to the forum ,mainly due to time constraints, however I feel that I should make comment on some posts.
The Richard the Third Society has been accused of "abandoning him". The society has no claim on Richard's bones whatsoever.
The money for the dig was mainly raised by Phillipa Langley by way of an appeal to members of the society, after the original financial backer pull out 2 weeks before the dig was due to commence.
Phillipa had to 'badger' the university for a considerable time, almost2years I believe,
before they agreed to the dig.
The money for the tomb has been raised again by the Richard the Third Society, again by donation.

Hope this clears up a few things for people :)
 
I don't know anything about the Richard the Third Society, but I appreciate the hard work of everyone who has been involved in finding and identifying Richard III's body. It is a fascinating story and it has increased our understanding of history. I know that finding and paying for a suitable final resting place is full of political and religious complications. I wish everyone the best.
 
lady of hay said:
I don't often log on to the forum ,mainly due to time constraints, however I feel that I should make comment on some posts.
The Richard the Third Society has been accused of "abandoning him". The society has no claim on Richard's bones whatsoever.
The money for the dig was mainly raised by Phillipa Langley by way of an appeal to members of the society, after the original financial backer pull out 2 weeks before the dig was due to commence.
Phillipa had to 'badger' the university for a considerable time, almost2years I believe,
before they agreed to the dig.
The money for the tomb has been raised again by the Richard the Third Society, again by donation.

Hope this clears up a few things for people :)
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the info. Hopefully the reconstructed head tour will offset some of the costs, moving forward! :)
 
I hope so too,especially as ,I understand ,the Society paid for that too !!! :)
 
But if you look at the University's webpage it was all the University of Leicester's idea, with a little help from "amateurs". :whistling: To repeat what Lady of Hay said above, the Uni gave no real credit to Phillipa Langley, who conceived the idea, raised the money through the Society and private donations, badgered them for over two years when the Uni had no real interest in looking and then told them EXACTLY where to dig, down to the "R" on the parking lot under which Richard was found. Or to John Ashdown-Hill, the historian who traced the descendants of Richard's sister who provided the DNA match and who helped Phillipa narrow down the area to search. At least Phillipa and the Society are given a shout out in the Antiquity article... Oh, and as was said above, a beautiful tomb design which is already paid for by the RIII Society. (The cathedral has said they favor a new stone marker on the floor - no tomb at all!)
 
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Put him back where they found him and be done with all this needless fuss.
 
To put him back would be one solution lol!!. But seriously I don't think his descendants would like that. To be honest from what I have heard some members of the society are beginning to wish the same. People have known roughly from for quite a long time where Richard was buried, I suppose it was just a matter of time before someone with the drive and determination of Phillipa Langley came along to see if it was true.
I sometimes wonder if she now wished she had never bothered. Leicester seem to want to take all the credit for this themselves, and I suppose being an academic institution they will get away with it. :) :whistling:
 
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lady of hay said:
To put him back would be one solution lol!!. But seriously I don't think his descendants would like that.
Click to expand...

As his only known descendants were his children, I doubt they would have anything to say about the matter.
 
Ish said:
As his only known descendants were his children, I doubt they would have anything to say about the matter.
Click to expand...

When I say descendants I do ,of course , refer to those who claim descent via Richard's sister,Anne of York, aka the Duchess of Exeter. For further information on this, may I refer members to the following book.

"The last days of Richard the Third and the fate of his DNA" by J. Ashdown-Hill
 
US Royal Watcher said:
What fun would that be? The next time I go to England, I don't want to be directed to a parking lot.:flowers:
Click to expand...

Not to worry, we will put one of our famous blue plaques over the parking spot "Richard III Sleeps here" so you tourists can have your picture taken next to it.
 
I'd consider it a journey well spent over the pond just to have my picture taken on the parking spot only if there's a big fat "R" painted there!:D
 
NGalitzine said:
Not to worry, we will put one of our famous blue plaques over the parking spot "Richard III Sleeps here" so you tourists can have your picture taken next to it.
Click to expand...

Would the blue plaque block the parking space? I would need somewhere to park.
 
It could say "you are currently parked over the final resting place of Richard III."
 
Yes, where King Richard is finally parked.....:cool:
 
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Ha ha ha, my friends in the society are going to love the last posts !!!
 
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More news on the head. It will be in the following locations,
Bosworth 11th June-16th July
Yorkshire museum 19th July - 13th October
Northampton 19thOctober - 5thJanuary
British museum 11thJanuary - 16thMarch.

Hope members find this of interest. As a friend as mine says hopefully they will not be touring the bones as well.:whistling:
 
Artemesia, you are right that sometimes dna, including mDNA (maternal line) degrades sufficiently so that it can't be sorted. In the case of Richard III, when this story first broke they said he had J1c2 mDNA, with the fifth digit unclear, that is, probably C but possibly another letter such as B. Tonight I did quite a web search to see if they had finally found the fifth digit, or if it remained unclear. All articles I read (about 20) listed the mDna of Richard (and of his modern descendants Joy Ibsen and Michael Ibsen, down the female line) as simply "J" without further digits. I have read that "J" comprises about 2% of Europeans, although the ratio is higher in some ethnicities than others. One article I read tonight speaks of Plantagenet mDNA as being Richard's.
It also identifies the J mDna group as belonging to a relatively recent haplogroup which came from the Middle East about 10,000 years ago (I have read anything from 4,000 to 6,000 years as the date for the Haplogroup J to emerge, so 10,000 is an older date, showing that scientists are not completely agreed, if indeed agreed at all, on such matters as this).
My mDna is also J, and it corresponds to Richards first four digits, that is J1c2. My fifth digit is "B". So this remains a mystery as to whether I have the EXACT same mDna as Richard. In any case, there are many people with this mDna, and it was not the only factor used in identifying Richard's body. It was a "further proof" after genealogical and archaeological studies were made.
Scientists also have isolated a male Y Dna which may be Richard's, and a modern ancestor, a nobleman called Beaufort, who could provide proof of Richard's body's identity on the male line, if he would consent to be tested. So far Beaufort won't be tested.
In case anyone wonders about the mystery of how Michael Ibsen, a man, could be carrying matrilineal DNA from Richard, the mDNA goes from mother to daughter in unbroken line but does carry on to the final son in the line. Thus, my son has my mDNA but his children cannot have it, as he is the last in the line and I have no daughters. This really baffles me, how ancient DNA carries on so long--relying on direct mother-daughter descent over hundreds and even thousands of years. And then abruptly it stops with the birth of a son who has no sisters, such as Michael Ibsen and my son.

It is an amazing story that Richard's mDNA was discovered in Joy and Michael Ibsen just in time before his direct maternal ancestry stopped. There is still the Beaufort male line which could be tested. But I guess it has been amply proved by forensic archaeology and genealogy that the body is that of Richard III. There are other queries on DNA of other relatives of royals, and one of these is discussed in the article online called Plantagenet DNA.
 
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