Order of Precedence 1: Ending 2022

[Osipi]

Didn't William request that there be no bowing/curtseying when he visited Australia. Maybe he'd prefer if people didn't?

My take on that is protocol was followed and people bowed and did a curtsy out of respect. Due to the nature of some of the visits and why he was there, maybe William felt it was them that should be shown concern and respect and when meeting them, he said "Just call me William" and such to put the entire thing into perspective. It was because of THEM he was there.

Something like that would never ever happen at an official state function.

Protocol is all around us and not only in the royal families.

 

[cmkrcwi]

British princes and princesses do not bow and curtsey to each other because they all have the exact same rank. They are all Princes/Princesses of the United Kingdom.

Perhaps I should clarify and say they are not required by the rules of protocol to bow and curtsey to each other.

 

[Iluvbertie]

British princes and princesses do not bow and curtsey to each other because they all have the exact same rank. They are all Princes/Princesses of the United Kingdom.

Perhaps I should clarify and say they are not required by the rules of protocol to bow and curtsey to each other.

It is actually the protocol of the British court that they do curtsey to those senior to them.

These princesses and princes might seem the same rank to us but to them there is a difference between HRH The Prince of Wales and HRH Prince Michael of Kent and thus Michael would bow to Charles and Marie-Christine to Camilla. All are HRH Prince/Princesses of the UK but they see a clear difference and acknowledge that difference.

Princess Michael made the comment that she would continue to curtsey to Diana even after Diana lost the HRH - and as she is in the position I will take her word for it.

 

[snowhite]

Because curtseying or "flunkying" has occured in royal families forever. If the BRF chose not to curtsey to either each other or foreign royals they would certainly seem like the outsiders. Even the modern monarchies like Denmark and Sweden still curtsey. It's part of being royal.

You don't think there's something weird about the fact that the late Queen Mother had to curtsey to her own daughter just because Elizabeth became queen?

I understand members of the public curtseying to the royal family, but a family (because this is what they are) curtseying to each other is just plane weird, if not wrong.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Here's the current order of precedence as regards ladies.

Table of Precedence, Ladies in England and Wales - Debrett's Forms of Address, Women

 

[MRSJ]

Here's the current order of precedence as regards ladies.

Table of Precedence, Ladies in England and Wales - Debrett's Forms of Address, Women

So Catherine would be wife of the duke of royal blood, yes?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Yes she is

 

[Lumutqueen]

You don't think there's something weird about the fact that the late Queen Mother had to curtsey to her own daughter just because Elizabeth became queen?

I understand members of the public curtseying to the royal family, but a family (because this is what they are) curtseying to each other is just plane weird, if not wrong.

That's royalty, they are royal first family second. I see no issue with that.

 

[Iluvbertie]

You don't think there's something weird about the fact that the late Queen Mother had to curtsey to her own daughter just because Elizabeth became queen?

I understand members of the public curtseying to the royal family, but a family (because this is what they are) curtseying to each other is just plane weird, if not wrong.

Here's a scenario for you.

Father is a general in the army. Son goes into politics and at age 40 is elected President of the US. Would you think it weird if the father then saluted his son?

 

[auntie]

You don't think there's something weird about the fact that the late Queen Mother had to curtsey to her own daughter just because Elizabeth became queen?

I understand members of the public curtseying to the royal family, but a family (because this is what they are) curtseying to each other is just plane weird, if not wrong.

It is the way royal protocol is. I remember reading that the first thing Queen Mary did when she heard her son had died, was to go over to the new Queen's residence and curtsey to her, to the horror of the Queen who tried to stop her granny. Queen Mary was obsesive to the royal order of things wasn't she?

 

[auntie]

Here's the current order of precedence as regards ladies.

Table of Precedence, Ladies in England and Wales - Debrett's Forms of Address, Women

There is no mention of the son of the reigning heir, is it because from Queen Victoria's time up untill now there has never been a grandson of the sovereign married and a duke? (like the George the Duke of York and Mary the duchess-aka George V?)

 

[Iluvbertie]

It is the way royal protocol is. I remember reading that the first thing Queen Mary did when she heard her son had died, was to go over to the new Queen's residence and curtsey to her, to the horror of the Queen who tried to stop her granny. Queen Mary was obsesive to the royal order of things wasn't she?

It was actually a day after the accession of Elizabeth as she had to return from Kenya.

Queen Mary actually said that she, her granny had to be the first to curtsey to her granddaughter and Queen.

This is also what she did in 1936. George V died and she immediately crossed the room and curtseyed to her son, the new King. She also is reported as saying once that one of the problems she had with being a mother of young children and the wife of the King was reminding the children that not only was the King their father but that he was also their King - they had to, even as children, bow before greeting their father - and I believe Charles and Anne were the same - bow/curtsey to their mother before she greeted them. She was a bit more relaxed with Andrew and Edward.

 

[MRSJ]

It was actually a day after the accession of Elizabeth as she had to return from Kenya.

Queen Mary actually said that she, her granny had to be the first to curtsey to her granddaughter and Queen.

I read (here) she curtesied and then stood up and said ''Lilibeth, that skirt is to short for mourning!''. Royal first, family second....

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

It was actually a day after the accession of Elizabeth as she had to return from Kenya.

Queen Mary actually said that she, her granny had to be the first to curtsey to her granddaughter and Queen.

This is also what she did in 1936. George V died and she immediately crossed the room and curtseyed to her son, the new King. She also is reported as saying once that one of the problems she had with being a mother of young children and the wife of the King was reminding the children that not only was the King their father but that he was also their King - they had to, even as children, bow before greeting their father - and I believe Charles and Anne were the same - bow/curtsey to their mother before she greeted them. She was a bit more relaxed with Andrew and Edward.

Didn't Phillip put a stop to the children bowing and curtseying to their parents? Or am I confusing this with his instructions to courtiers and other members of the household that the children could open the doors by themselves?

 

[Esmerelda]

I read in a biography that the Queen herself put a stop to children bowing/curtseying to their parents when she became Queen. The book then went on to say that Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother were still supposed to curtsey in public. I've never seen a picture of the Queen Mother curtseying to her daughter, though- has anyone?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I read in a biography that the Queen herself put a stop to children bowing/curtseying to their parents when she became Queen. The book then went on to say that Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother were still supposed to curtsey in public. I've never seen a picture of the Queen Mother curtseying to her daughter, though- has anyone?

Thank you for the information.

I think I have seen a clip on You Tube which shows the Queen Mother and others curtseying and bowing to the Queen during the coronation as the Queen processes out of the Abbey.

 

[branchg]

Today the royal family does not curtsey or bow to one another, except to The Queen. In the old days, formal protocol required those in precedence behind a particular Royal Highness did indeed curtsey or bow to the individual who was senior (i.e. The Princess Beatrice would curtsey to The Princess of Wales in public). But they no longer follow these formalities.

 

[auntie]

The Queen mother was HM also, doesn't this mean thar she doesn't have to curtsey to monarchs?
Also by the recent weddin of K&W the greeks and the Kents were boeing and curtseying to each other. Probably the farther away to the throne you are the more important these etiquette becomes...

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen mother was HM also, doesn't this mean thar she doesn't have to curtsey to monarchs?
Also by the recent weddin of K&W the greeks and the Kents were boeing and curtseying to each other. Probably the farther away to the throne you are the more important these etiquette becomes...

The Queen Mother was a Queen Consort while The Queen is a Queen Regnant so the QM was a lower rung than her daughter but still higher than Philip who is only a Prince consort.

Early in the Queen's reign both Queen Mary and the Queen Mother would curtsey to The Queen and Philip would bow to all of them. During George VI's reign Queen Mary would curtsey to the Queen Mum because she was then The Queen but once George VI died they would be equal - Dowager Queens with the Queen Mum taking precedence as the more recent Queen Dowager.

We often don't see the curtseying etc because it happens in private before they appear in public but my understanding is that it still happens.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Here's a scenario for you.

Father is a general in the army. Son goes into politics and at age 40 is elected President of the US. Would you think it weird if the father then saluted his son?

If the son were born when the father was 20, the general would probably have retired by then, thereby not having to salute anyone.

In your scenario, if the general was still in the Army, protocol would command that he salute his son and the general wouldn't bat an eye. He would not be saluting his son, he would be saluting the President.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If the son were born when the father was 20, the general would probably have retired by then, thereby not having to salute anyone.

In your scenario, if the general was still in the Army, protocol would command that he salute his son and the general wouldn't bat an eye. He would not be saluting his son, he would be saluting the President.

Which is exactly the situation with the Queen Mother curtseying to her daughter - it wasn't her daughter to whom she was curtseying but her monarch.

When Snowhite said

You don't think there's something weird about the fact that the late Queen Mother had to curtsey to her own daughter just because Elizabeth became queen?

I simply gave another scenario.

 

[Vita]

I for one am sad they mo longer require you to curtsy to the royals and that they don't one another. I always thought that was one of the most elegant displays of respect. I thought Catherine looked lovely when she curtsied.

 

[Zonk]

I didn't get a good view of Catherine's curtsey. No one IMO beats Charles and Diana...Diana did a deep curtsey and Charles' bow to his mother, The Queen was perfect.

 

[Vita]

I didn't get a good view of Catherine's curtsey. No one IMO beats Charles and Diana...Diana did a deep curtsey and Charles' bow to his mother, The Queen was perfect.

Zonk I did not want compare Diana to Catherine for obvious reasons but I could not agree more. And I am not just saying that because she is my favourite.

 

[Osipi]

Zonk I did not want compare Diana to Catherine for obvious reasons but I could not agree more. And I am not just saying that because she is my favourite.

I couldn't remember Diana's curtsy during her wedding so I went looking and found a wonderful photo of it. She really did do an awesome curtsy to HM which had to be a bit tricky in the gown she was wearing. I love it!

Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected

 

[Vita]

I couldn't remember Diana's curtsy during her wedding so I went looking and found a wonderful photo of it. She really did do an awesome curtsy to HM which had to be a bit tricky in the gown she was wearing. I love it!

Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected

Thank you for that. Even the photograph captures how lovely they looked! If only....sighs.

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Ok so I need clarification here on who takes precedence over whom....

I heard it said that if Prince Charles is present with Camilla that Camilla takes precedence over Catherine...but if it's just Camilla and Catherine (sans husbands) then Catherine would take precedence over Camilla.

No?

MM

 

[Daria_S]

Ok so I need clarification here on who takes precedence over whom....

I heard it said that if Prince Charles is present with Camilla that Camilla takes precedence over Catherine...but if it's just Camilla and Catherine (sans husbands) then Catherine would take precedence over Camilla.

No?

MM

I'm going to venture a guess, so someone who knows a little more, feel free to correct me.

My assumption is that Camila would outrank Catherine in either situation.

 

[Super Baroness]

I heard it said that if Prince Charles is present with Camilla that Camilla takes precedence over Catherine...but if it's just Camilla and Catherine (sans husbands) then Catherine would take precedence over Camilla...No?

That's the information stated in the current Daily Mail article about Balmoral, but it's incorrect. If Camilla is with Charles, then she of course takes precedence, and if Charles is absent, Camilla still outranks Catherine. Married to the first-in-line vs. married to the second-in-line I'm hoping the DM just messed up the names.

 

[Midwestern Mom]

What I heard said, was on the day of the Royal Wedding by one of the commentators...I just remembered more....I think they said Catherine would take precedence only if her husband was present (Camilla there, William and Catherine there...no Charles). I didn't get it but I know there are all sorts of protocol I'm unaware of.

MM