New title for Princess Anne?

[Somebody]

I'm not saying that she personally wants to do it again. I'm saying that I think she would do a great job. The first four in line are William, Harry, Andrew and Eugenie. Only William is a full-time royal right now.

Camilla is also eligible as Counsellor of State, so Charles can pick to full-time royals if he would need to appoint Counsellors of State for a specific occasion or period of time.

 

[Sionevar]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but according to The Telegraph, Charles wishes to amend the law regulating who can be a Counsellor of State, to include only working royals.

https://archive.ph/HwZMr

The article suggests he will remove Harry, Andrew and Beatrice, potentially to be replaced by Edward and Anne, and perhaps even Catherine as well.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thanks! I suggest discussing this in the Counsellors of State thread and have replied to your post there.

 

[Sionevar]

Thanks! I suggest discussing this in the Counsellors of State thread and have replied to your post there.

Thank you

 

[Royalguru]

What about Duke of Ross, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich?

Ross being a historic Scottish royal title.

I think that Anne would be proud of her son Peter being known as Earl of Merioneth, one of her father's titles

 

[SirGyamfi1]

What about Duke of Ross, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich?

Ross being a historic Scottish royal title.

I think that Anne would be proud of her son Peter being known as Earl of Merioneth, one of her father's titles

Not really. Anne isn’t obsessed with rank and prestige in that way. Her kids aren’t either and don’t want titles.

 

[Iluvbertie]

What about Duke of Ross, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich?

Ross being a historic Scottish royal title.

I think that Anne would be proud of her son Peter being known as Earl of Merioneth, one of her father's titles

If Anne had wanted a title for herself or for her children she would have had one years ago. She simply doesn't want anything more than she has.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What about Duke of Ross, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich?

Ross being a historic Scottish royal title.

I think that Anne would be proud of her son Peter being known as Earl of Merioneth, one of her father's titles

Anne's peerages would not be hereditary unless King Charles attaches a special reminder to the Letters Patent. It would be more logic to create Captain Mark Phillips a Peer but he has left the royal family decades ago and it would be awkward to Vice-Admiral Timothy Lawrence, the current brother-in-law to the King.

No, it will not happen.

 

[Countessmeout]

Traditionally Scottish titles could be inherited by women.Any created before the union of the crown can still be.

There is nothing stopping new titles being created from allowing a woman to inherit. I know there is objection to changing current titles but really the peerage needs to come into 21st century and allow equal rights like the crown.

But Anne has no need for new titles. Nor would her kids likely want to suddenly have them thrust on them.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Traditionally Scottish titles could be inherited by women.Any created before the union of the crown can still be.

There is nothing stopping new titles being created from allowing a woman to inherit. I know there is objection to changing current titles but really the peerage needs to come into 21st century and allow equal rights like the crown.

But Anne has no need for new titles. Nor would her kids likely want to suddenly have them thrust on them.

Allowing titles to be inherited into perpetuity is often exactly what champions of equal rights do not aim for ánd the core unequality between an elder sibling and a younger sibling as well the core unequality between a titled citizen and an untitled citizen remain.

Advocating equality means ending the whole aristocracy, to be fair.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Not really. Anne isn’t obsessed with rank and prestige in that way. Her kids aren’t either and don’t want titles.

Exactly and they've done very well with out them too.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Anne's peerages would not be hereditary unless King Charles attaches a special reminder to the Letters Patent. It would be more logic to create Captain Mark Phillips a Peer but he has left the royal family decades ago and it would be awkward to Vice-Admiral Timothy Lawrence, the current brother-in-law to the King.

No, it will not happen.

The standard remainder of a hereditary peerage is to heirs male of the body. As there is one heir male of Anne's body (Peter Phillips), a peerage granted to Anne with no special remainder would be hereditary for one generation (as Peter has no sons).

https://debretts.com/peerage/creation-and-inheritance-of-peerages/

Allowing titles to be inherited into perpetuity is often exactly what champions of equal rights do not aim for ánd the core unequality between an elder sibling and a younger sibling as well the core unequality between a titled citizen and an untitled citizen remain.

Advocating equality means ending the whole aristocracy, to be fair.

That does not contradict what Countessmeout wrote.

 

[Kataryn]

The standard remainder of a hereditary peerage is to heirs male of the body. As there is one heir male of Anne's body (Peter Phillips), a peerage granted to Anne with no special remainder would be hereditary for one generation (as Peter has no sons).

https://debretts.com/peerage/creation-and-inheritance-of-peerages/

Not yet. He has no sons, right but he doesn't need any (yet). But we've seen extraordinary efforts (think queen Victoria) when an heir was needed, so who knows?

 

[Denville]

why on earth does anyone think that Anne woudl want another title esp one that would pass to her son? He like his father has made his way in life without a title.

 

[wartenberg7]

I don´t see why she would need another royal title? "Princess Royal" is a very exclusive and prestigious one.

 

[Hallo girl]

I don´t see why she would need another royal title? "Princess Royal" is a very exclusive and prestigious one.

I would agree,

 

[Kataryn]

I don´t see why she would need another royal title? "Princess Royal" is a very exclusive and prestigious one.

Maybe she stayed up to date with the way views on female heirs have changed, that for a lot of people nowadays a female is ecqually able to manage a family's estate or represent a title from a time when only male children in the first line were considered "worthy". Even for women at my age (nearly 60, but raised on feminist ideas) it is still difficult to imagine that when it comes to really important positions (which a Royal peerage is not!). But we have seen so many female CEO's make their mark on the business or philantrophic world so we need to be aware that you can exchange the genders and just look for the actual abilities to keep an inheritance intact and even develop a company onto a new level of success.


If Anne had been born before Charles and in today's world, she would be as marvellous a queen as he is as king. (I won't say she would have better, though it is a fact she is as steely as her father, the Royal prince, was and as dutiful and warm-hearted as her mother, the queen).


Just IMHO, of course.

 

[Sister Morphine]

What about Duke of Ross, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich?

Ross being a historic Scottish royal title.

I think that Anne would be proud of her son Peter being known as Earl of Merioneth, one of her father's titles

Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich were two of Prince Philip's titles, yes, but the Dukedom of Edinburgh and its subsidiary titles will be given to Edward, per the wishes of both QEII and Prince Philip.

Anne doesn't need any other titles, and her children don't want titles.

 

[Stefan]

Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich were two of Prince Philip's titles, yes, but the Dukedom of Edinburgh and its subsidiary titles will be given to Edward, per the wishes of both QEII and Prince Philip.

As far as i recall only Duke of Edinburgh was mentioned and Prince Edward has already several Titles so i guess he will only be made Duke of Edinburgh withouth Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich.

 

[Somebody]

Agreed. Subsidiary titles are not carried along to new creations. They can be but there is no rule that they have to - as it is a new creation. So, hoping that Charles will keep the agreement made with his parents and younger brother, Edward will get the duke of Edinburgh title but there is no reason at all to give him to additional subsidiary titles. He already has two earldoms and a viscountcy. So, more than sufficient.

I do expect for these titles to reappear at some point (assuming that they continue to give peerage-titles) but not to Edward.

 

[Biri]

I don´t see why she would need another royal title? "Princess Royal" is a very exclusive and prestigious one.

And she will remain PR till her time comes

Charlotte will be named Princess Royal no sooner than after her great-aunt's passing away.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

If there is anyone i can’t see would want any other title than the ones she already has - it is Princess Anne ! She is ”no fuss” personified !

And I really can’t see Peter would want to suddenly go from being Mr Phillips all his life, to suddenly become an Earl or a Duke…

That family is more than happy as they are

 

[SirGyamfi1]

If there is anyone i can’t see would want any other title than the ones she already has - it is Princess Anne ! She is ”no fuss” personified !

And I really can’t see Peter would want to suddenly go from being Mr Phillips all his life, to suddenly become an Earl or a Duke…

That family is more than happy as they are

Exactly, I really don’t see why people are insisting beyond this.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I am not declaring that Peter should become a Duke or an Earl.
However, if he did become a Duke or an Earl, would he like the prestige that goes with the title?

 

[Countessmeout]

Allowing titles to be inherited into perpetuity is often exactly what champions of equal rights do not aim for ánd the core unequality between an elder sibling and a younger sibling as well the core unequality between a titled citizen and an untitled citizen remain.

Advocating equality means ending the whole aristocracy, to be fair.

So its okay for an older son to inherit over a younger son? But when its female thats discrimination

You will actually find people arguing for equality actually do want gender equality. No one is arguing against birth order descrimination

The only way for antique institutions to survive is to modernize. Did you see anyone fighting to eliminate birth order to the throne? Nope. Equal inheritance based on gender was what people sought for.

They already saw to house of lords. Now doing as Spain has and introducing equality is a needed step.

Ridiculous Charlotte is ahead of Louis, but still given less. Princess royal is a title but no peerage. Nothing to pass on.

 

[Heavs]

I am not declaring that Peter should become a Duke or an Earl.
However, if he did become a Duke or an Earl, would he like the prestige that goes with the title?

Given that both he and Zara have given multiple interviews saying that their parents made the right decision and they are happy that they do not have titles I'm not sure he cares about the prestige. He was very clearly a beloved grandson of the monarch and a full member of the family with many of the privileges and perks associated with it, without a lot of the hassle. Also clearly being the Queen's untitled grandson was enough to get paid a lot for those Chinese milk adverts. And more generally be well connected socially and in business.

Assuming the monarchy is still around in 20ish years when Charlotte may get married it is *possible* that her grandfather/father might grant her a Dukedom in her own right or it is possible that neither she nor Louis will get one.

 

[Royalguru]

Given that both he and Zara have given multiple interviews saying that their parents made the right decision and they are happy that they do not have titles I'm not sure he cares about the prestige.

What do you expect them to say?

They could hardly say that were sad that they missed out on titles and wished that their parents had accepted them.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I am not declaring that Peter should become a Duke or an Earl.
However, if he did become a Duke or an Earl, would he like the prestige that goes with the title?

Well i don’t know him so i can’t tell for sure - but he has never come off as a guy who likes prestige in any way…

The only time i’ve heard him talk about that was when he joked that he is the only member of his birth family who does not have an olympic medal ?

Seeing the extreme and often out of propotion media exposure of their 4 titled cousins (William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie) i can’t imagine that Peter and Zara would be jelaous in any way

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Given that both he and Zara have given multiple interviews saying that their parents made the right decision and they are happy that they do not have titles I'm not sure he cares about the prestige.

What do you expect them to say?

They could hardly say that were sad that they missed out on titles and wished that their parents had accepted them.

But they are private individuals and adults, they know the sensible things to say. Plus I truly doubt they feel their parents made any mistake with refusing titles. The late Queen being their grandmother was enough and it’s not as if they were liked less for not have titles. They would never have the privacy to do their commercial ventures if they had these titles because of too much media attention. You can’t compare them to the British peerage in the hypothetical scenario because none of the peers have the Queen as a granny as well having a peerage.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

So its okay for an older son to inherit over a younger son? But when its female thats discrimination

You will actually find people arguing for equality actually do want gender equality. No one is arguing against birth order descrimination

The only way for antique institutions to survive is to modernize. Did you see anyone fighting to eliminate birth order to the throne? Nope. Equal inheritance based on gender was what people sought for.

They already saw to house of lords. Now doing as Spain has and introducing equality is a needed step.

Ridiculous Charlotte is ahead of Louis, but still given less. Princess royal is a title but no peerage. Nothing to pass on.

You can’t really compare because the number of Spanish peers is far more than British peers. Plus the number of titles accumulated by both groups are under different traditions because in Spain, titles can be split amongst family members but in the U.K, the titles don’t work that way. You can’t compare the throne to the peerage because women could always ascend the throne vs the peerage. The House of Lords issue was not about equality, but simply about reducing the power of peers even further for the ends of political parties and was initiated by Tony Blair by reducing the number of peers in the nineties. Plus many feudal titles already pass through female lines.