Monaco's succession issues

[Nadine]

So it is written so let it be done.

 

[Nathalie Cox]

Weren't the succession laws altered by Rainier in 2002 specifically because Rainier knew about rumors of Albert's out of wedlock children(specifically Jazmin Rotolo) and wanted specifically to block them from the Succession?

I think that might be the reason. Also, Rainier wanted to see Andrea on the throne, because he thought Albert would never marry.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

Albert I put adoption in allowing Princess Charlotte to become Louis heir since he didn't have a legitimate one. Rainier took it out at about the same time Monaco was in the process of fixing there Constitution to meet with the standards of a union they were trying to become a member of. I'm drawing a blank on what it was actually called. Fan of Monaco or Bones may know. In order to belong to it they had to also include things on women's rights. The Treaty with France also acknowledged Monaco was an Independent State and wouldn't revert to French rule if the Grimaldi line died out and or had no legitimate heir.

Monaco is a Catholic State therefore has to follow guidelines on the Ruler one being legitimate born within a legal and blessed marriage by the Church. Caroline fought for years to get an annulment from Junot to legitimize the trio in the eyes of the Church even though in the eyes of the law she was legally married to Stefano. Stephanies children Louis and Pauline were not eligible to be in the line of succession until she married Daniel. Cammy is not. Alexandra is in the succession of two Thrones Monaco and Britain.

Monaco Succession Crisis of 1918 see quote below

The solution was an unequal treaty between France and Monaco which formalized and rendered permanent the latter's position as a client state: Not only did it require Monaco to conduct its foreign relations in consultation with or through France, but it obliged the dynasty to obtain French authorization for marital alliances or changes in succession, and declared that should the throne become vacant Monaco would become an official protectorate under French jurisdiction — while retaining nominal independence.

The bold type is no longer true with the changes in 2002.

Treaty of 1861 and 1918

New Treaty 2002

Under Prince Rainier there was 20 heirs to the Throne until his death and Albert II was enthroned. Again no reason to leave adoption in the Constitution. It had nothing at all to do with either Alexandre or Jazmin.

 

[FanofMonaco]

I think the 2002 change was because PA still did not have an heir. Rather than becoming part of France they changed it so that PC could become ruler then Andrea if PA remained heirless. The clever Monagasques have become more valuable to France as an independent country than becoming part of France. They are a major employer of the French and promote many French products such as haute couture and tourism.

 

[Mirabel]

I was wondering: suppose Albert and Charlene have only daughters and no sons? Would a daughter be allowed to inherit the throne, or would it then go to Andrea Casiraghi?

 

[titiromi]

I was wondering: suppose Albert and Charlene have only daughters and no sons? Would a daughter be allowed to inherit the throne, or would it then go to Andrea Casiraghi?

The older daughter will inherit the throne.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I was wondering: suppose Albert and Charlene have only daughters and no sons? Would a daughter be allowed to inherit the throne, or would it then go to Andrea Casiraghi?

Of course throne goes to the eldest daughter! To go to Andrea it has to pass through Caroline, who is also female. So the first female (daughter) has more rights than the sister!

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

I think the 2002 change was because PA still did not have an heir. Rather than becoming part of France they changed it so that PC could become ruler then Andrea if PA remained heirless. The clever Monagasques have become more valuable to France as an independent country than becoming part of France. They are a major employer of the French and promote many French products such as haute couture and tourism.

What I was looking for when I said union was Council of Europe I hope you read it to understand the reasons for the changes. Monaco applied for membership October 15, 1998.

3. The Assembly welcomes the major constitutional and legislative changes implemented by Monaco in response to the recommendations of the eminent lawyers and rapporteurs. These are primarily the constitutional amendments adopted on 28 March 2002, concerning in particular the enlarged powers of the National Council (the parliament) in respect of initiating laws, amending legislation, deciding on budgetary matters and ratification of certain international instruments, as well as matters relating to the acquisition of Monegasque nationality and the enjoyment of civil rights.

VII. Relations with France and the problem of sovereignty

Wikipedia 2002 Changes

Until 2002, the crown of Monaco could only pass to the direct descendants (including adopted children) of the reigning prince. This meant that Princess Antoinette was not in the line of succession and that Princesses Caroline and Stéphanie would lose their places in line at the moment of Prince Albert's succession. This created considerable concern that the throne might fall vacant should Prince Albert inherit the crown and then die without fathering (or adopting) a legitimate heir. In 2002, changes were made to the Constitution of Monaco which eliminated that concern.
Until 2002, the reigning Prince could adopt an heir who would succeed him if the Prince died without biological children. Prince Albert could thus have adopted one of his nephews, or even someone unrelated, and made the person his heir. That option no longer exists. Now, if Prince Albert II fails to marry and father a legitimate heir, the crown will automatically pass to one of his sisters or one of their children—also regardless of any illegitimate children he has fathered.

They revised the Treaty with France and made other changes to the Constitution removing the adoption clause because there was no longer any need.

 

[titiromi]

The fact that Alexandra is "dynaste", does this mean that she is monegasque (art 10, only a citizen can be the sovereign of Monaco) ? Is she german?

 

[budge9]

Will Charlene now produce an heir for Albert?- probably.

If she wasn't able to would Andrea want to be sovereign?- probably not.

However I think the Casiraghi trio do like the limelight. They could have been like Stephanie's kids and hardly attended anything, but they do attend events that they needn't, so the paparazzi intrusion is partly of their own doing.

 

[NGalitzine]

The fact that Alexandra is "dynaste", does this mean that she is monegasque (art 10, only a citizen can be the sovereign of Monaco) ? Is she german?

She probably has dual citizenship.

 

[Renata4711]

But we don't know that !

 

[titiromi]

Maybe the princily family are not submitted to the same laws as the normal people but according to the constitution, we are monegasque if our dad is a monegasque (that's why Daniel and Stephano became Monegasque when they married the sisters). Or if we are born from a monegasque mother with an unknown father. And I'm not even sure if Monaco accepts the dual citizenship. But I guess due to her rank, things go differently for her.

 

[NGalitzine]

Well she is a dynast so we know she at least has Monagasque citzenship. Her father is German but she was born in Austria so I guess she possibly has multiple options open to her should the need arise.

 

[Renata4711]

Alex' father is not only German, but also has a British passport.

 

[NGalitzine]

True, but if his citizenship is a result for his descent from Electress Sophia does not apply to Alexandra since the citizenship act reforms.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Any englishmen can give his english citicenship to his children... so why should it be diffrent for Alexandra??

 

[NGalitzine]

Because EA's claim to British citizenship was based on his descent from the Electress Sophia of Hanover. The citizenship act was amended a long time ago and ended that ability to claim citizenship based on descent from Sophia. Alexandra may fall into a grey area since her father may claim British citizenship but now with free movement within the EU it doesnt really matter much any more.

 

[Thtregoddess11]

She probably has dual citizenship.

Rules of the EU state that one cannot have 2 citizenship to two countries that are part of the union. Plus, Monaco's dual citizenship rules. And she's in line for the Monaco throne, so likley, she only has a Monaco citizenship. Monaco is considered part of the EU b/c of its ties with France.

 

[angieuk]

Not sure where to put this but:

Does anyone think that Monaco will follow the rest of the Royal Families ie. If the Princess of Monaco has a daughter first she will inherit the Monaco throne instead of any younger brother? Which will now be the case for William and Catherine Duke and Duchess of Cambridge who if they have a daughter first she will be Queen? As will also happen in Sweden.

 

[FanofMonaco]

The current law still has boys first.

 

[smdouglas]

The current law still has boys first.

For those interested: The information is contained in Article 10 of The Constitution (2002) (French and English).

 

[Queen Shirley]

So his two children are not in line of succession because of they are illegitimate births. I understand that. But if they move to Monaco and become citizen? or does the Prince Albert have to legally "adopt them" even tho he has claimed they are his children?

 

[NGalitzine]

Adoption is not an available option since the 2002 constitutional changes.
He could only legitimize his children by marrying their mothers, the same way Stephanies 2 eldest children are in the line of succession because she married their fathers after their births but her youngest is not in the line of succession because she never married the father.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

So his two children are not in line of succession because of they are illegitimate births. I understand that. But if they move to Monaco and become citizen? or does the Prince Albert have to legally "adopt them" even tho he has claimed they are his children?

I've said this many times and so has others. The only way either of Albert's children can become his heir is he has to divorce Charlene and have the marriage annulled by the Catholic Church then Albert has to marry the mother of the child he decides to make his heir. If he had wanted to that happen he would have married Tamara or Nicole instead of Charlene.

 

[Jaya]

If Princess Charlene does bear an heir maybe Prince Albert will give the throne to one of Caro's kids?Unless his children sue like those of Picasso[his illegits got their share of the estate] they are unlikely to inherit but then again these times they are a changing

 

[NGalitzine]

The line of succession in Monaco is pretty clear so there is no succession crisis or succession issue.
1 Caroline, Hereditary Princess of Monaco
2 Andrea Casiraghi
3 Pierre Casiraghi
4 Charlotte Casiraghi
5 Princess Alexandra of Hanover
6 Princess Stephanie of Monaco
7 Louis Ducruet
8 Pauline Ducruet
Alberts 2 children by women he did not marry have no rights of succession to the throne although they will share in his private fortune. The laws on succession to the throne and the laws of inheritance to private wealth are different. The law of succession is part of the constitution.

 

[kathia_sophia]

^isnt Princess Alexandra 5th? then Princess Stephanie 6#, Louis 7# and Pauline 8#.

when Princess Stephanie of Luxembourg was born, her mother was 40 and her father was 60!..i read somewhere that a man can produce children until their 70s, Albert is young compared to that age, so im expecting soon or later an official pregnancy annoucement^^

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

If Princess Charlene does bear an heir maybe Prince Albert will give the throne to one of Caro's kids?Unless his children sue like those of Picasso[his illegits got their share of the estate] they are unlikely to inherit but then again these times they are a changing

Albert would need to abdicate before having a child with Charlene other wise the child is the heir. If he decided to change the Constitution again and that is a big if to pass over his legitimate heirs it could cause a legal battle down the line should his child or children fight for it.

^isnt Princess Alexandra 5th? then Princess Stephanie 6#, Louis 7# and Pauline 8#.

when Princess Stephanie of Luxembourg was born, her mother was 40 and her father was 60!..i read somewhere that a man can produce children until their 70s, Albert is young compared to that age, so im expecting soon or later an official pregnancy annoucement^^

Yes, Alexandra is 5th in line.

 

[Danishla]

The line of succession in Monaco is pretty clear so there is no succession crisis or succession issue.
1 Caroline, Hereditary Princess of Monaco
2 Andrea Casiraghi
3 Pierre Casiraghi
4 Charlotte Casiraghi
5 Princess Alexandra of Hanover
6 Princess Stephanie of Monaco
7 Louis Ducruet
8 Pauline Ducruet
Alberts 2 children by women he did not marry have no rights of succession to the throne although they will share in his private fortune. The laws on succession to the throne and the laws of inheritance to private wealth are different. The law of succession is part of the constitution.

Isnt' there another daughter of Princess Stephanie missing from the list?