Thanks for this info, it allowed me to check Manno's "Patriziato Subalpino". It is reported there that Giovanni Antonio Martentini was actually a tailor!! No titles for him and his ancestors!! It is true that his son was created a baron of the French empire in 1813 and that his daughter married a Poeti. But it is not true that the Poeti were an ancient or noble or rich family: actually Luigi Poeti was a grocer!! Of course no mentions of any connection to the Valperga family!!
Then it is very strange that we know many commoner descendant of that archduke Ernst and not these noble ones: so strange that I don't believe in their existance.
Thanks for this info, it allowed me to check Manno's "Patriziato Subalpino". It is reported there that Giovanni Antonio Martentini was actually a tailor!! No titles for him and his ancestors!! It is true that his son was created a baron of the French empire in 1813 and that his daughter married a Poeti. But it is not true that the Poeti were an ancient or noble or rich family: actually Luigi Poeti was a grocer!! Of course no mentions of any connection to the Valperga family!!
Then it is very strange that we know many commoner descendant of that archduke Ernst and not these noble ones: so strange that I don't believe in their existance.
Very surprising. Manno can be checked online on
http://www.vivant.it/pagine/patri.htm
and most of the information on it, when it was misleading, was corrected. This webpage is maintained by Ministero per i Beni e le Attività Culturali (Ministry for the Cultural Property and Activities of Italy), Archivio di Stato di Torino (State Archive of Torino) and the Biblioteca Reale di Torino (Royal Library of Torino). Manno's work was of great value, and complemented with other sources, as was Guano's work. But as far as I know was not accurate at all.
For example, Manno carries no accurate and complete genealogy of the Valperga, as they were a family from the 11th century, except giving them roles as they came in his research. The same happens with Peyretti/Peiretti: when searching "per famiglia" (by family name) for most accuracy, the current revised archives of Manno's work throw you to 2 options:
Famiglia:
Famiglia:.Da Racconigli, in Saluzzo ed in Torino
When you click the first (and anyone can do this), you get:
Famiglia:Peiretti v. Peyretti
Volume: 22
Pagina: 212
Cat. Vivant: 31535
which only means the information was revised.
Now you take the 2nd link, and it gives you this:
Famiglia:Peyretti (Pei retti)
Estinti
Da Racconigli, in Saluzzo ed in Torino.
Conti di Condove.
D’azzurro al leone d’argento, tenente, colla zampa destra un ramo di rosaio, al naturale; colla banda di rosso attraversante, carica di una cometa d’oro, verso il capo e verso la punta di un monte, di tre colli all’italiana, di verde, ristretto, cucito.
Stemma napoleonico. Troncato, il 1° partito: a) di rosso alla banda partita di nero e d’argento addestrata da un leone, sinistrata da un ramoscello piegato a decusse, il tutto d’oro, col capo d’azzurro carico di tre stelle d’oro; b) di barone presidente di Corte d’Appello; al 2° d’azzurro, al leone d’oro, colla banda di rosso, attraversante caricata, verso il capo da una cometa d’argento.
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Matteo[SIZE=-2][/SIZE]
Volume: 23
Pagina: 397
Cat. Vivant: 32580
Which is information about their coat of arms and the recognition of their title.
There's no reference to a whole genealogy on the Peyretti's from Manno, as valid today, and this can be explained because further research proved that it had mistakes, was incomplete, or the information was not entirely reliable.
I have
not found evidence of the "tailor" and "grocer" thing, except in my old Manno volume, which I have checked, but says nothing else other than "her descendants took the name Poeti-Marentini", which is contradictory and says a lot, because we all know that compound surnames, not only in Italy but the rest of Europe, were only allowed to noble people. It makes me doubt on Manno's accuracy here, and why Vivant, which has transcribed online all records proved accurate, has no mention of it.
But there are in fact, more interesting evidences in other books, especially related to the Royal Library in Turin. His Majesty the King of Italy always ordered a written survey on its notable families (from Piedmont) and says a lot (especially for the history and the way is written):
"Il casato dei Marentini, congiunto di parentela con quello dei Pejretti, produsse anche uomini ben degni di memoria. Giovanni Antonio, figlio di Sebastiano Antonio Marentini, si ammogliò in prime nozze con Elisabetta Rossi, da cui non ebbe che un figliuolo (1740), il quale vestì l'abito dei minori osservanti della provincia romana, e tornato al seccolo esercitò per molti anni il sacerdotal ministero nella chiesa cattedrale di Saluzzo, ove morì nel 1819. Giovanni Antonio Marentini sposò in seconde nozze Rosa Margarita Pejretti-Condove nel dì 15 ottobre 1744. I figli che provennero da questo fortunato connubio, furono Filippo Sebastiano, Giuseppe, Chiaffredo, Morizio e Pietro Bernardino..."
This was written by Professor Goffredo Casalis, and I'm sure you know who was he. I bet that it is now obvious that Manno missed that Giovanni Antonio, was married to Elisabetta Rossi, who was daughter, according to royal papers and Vivant itself, to the Count Rossi (or de Rossi/DeRossi) from Savigliano (oriundi di Fossano), that had the title of Conte di Pomerolo, Signore di Santa Rosa. I don't think that a simple tailor will marry two Countesses in a row, but more gross is that Manno ignored it. That is why the valid Manno records today supressed those informations. About Goffredo Casalis, you can google him online, but this is a summary of who he was:
Goffredo Casalis nacque a Saluzzo nel 1781. Orfano di padre, di intelligenza precocissima e di poca salute, venne accolto gratis nel seminario saluzzese, dove compì gli studi teologici fino all’ordinazione sacerdotale.
Iscrittosi non senza difficoltà all’Università di Torino, vi conseguì il dottorato in Belle lettere. Mal sopportando il ruolo di precettore dei rampolli di famiglie nobili ed ostacolato nelle sue aspirazioni dalle mene dei Gesuiti, cercò per tutta la vita protezioni e sicurezza economica, che gli permettessero di attendere in pace ai suoi studi storiografici.
Nel 1833 Carlo Alberto fonda la "Regia Deputazione sopra gli studi di Storia patria" ed apre agli studiosi gli archivi di Corte che fino ad allora erano stati gelosamente preservati da qualsiasi intromissione esterna. Nasce nell’abate Casalis l’idea di compilare un’opera che tratteggiasse per ciascuno Comune dello Stato sabaudo storia, caratteristiche geografiche e peculiarità socio-economiche.
I could give you hundreds of references... Professor Casalis, which was an authority in the Italian Royal family, also made a wonderful and thorough history on the Poeti and later the Poeti-Marentini (as the Peyretti and Valperga), and reading now some excerpts (I have the volume open here by my side), I can say that perhaps you're not judging accordingly the merit of the surnames, and the scope of their connections. For instance, I'm reading (quote), on Pietro Marentini:
...ritornossene quindi a Torino, e non rivide mai più quella città, ov'ebbe la culla. Cessò di vivere in questa capitale addì 3 novembre 1830, confortato ed assistito nella sua lunga e penosa malattia dalle amorevoli cure della contessa Sclopis di Salerano sua cugina e dal suo nipotte dottore e conde Morizio Poeti.
I doubt that a descendant of a "grocer" and a "tailor" (as Manno put it), would had been in the blue blood circles of Piedmont.
Then it says, about Giovanni Antonio Marentini's private library (never thought that a "tailor" had so much culture and importance for the King):
Nel 1817 il principe di Carignano Carlo Alberto, ora felicemente regnante, dando principio alla sua biblioteca, acquistò dal Marentini buon numero di eccellenti opere atte a formare un buon re, e a procurare la felicità dei popoli."
I never thought that the library of a "tailor" had so much importance for the "education of a King", as Cassalis wrote. And Cassalis knew this not by reference, but because he had access to the Royal Family's files.