Is Camilla a Catholic?

[Osipi]

Only if she wanted to remarry again in the Catholic church, I think. Not sure on that.

Camilla has always been a member of the Church of England though.

 

[Dlmagoo]

The fact that there was virtually no way that Prince Michael of Kent would ever be King, I’m sure, was a huge factor in his marriage. Plus only the 6 closest to the crown are looked at with so much scrutiny

I believe

 

[Iluvbertie]

No the marriage doesn't have to be annulled - unless she wanted to marry again in a Roman Catholic ceremony.

As she was legally divorced and had a civil marriage there is no problem. She could even have married in the CoE had the Archbishop of Canterbury or some other minister believed she had no role in the breakdown of Charles and Diana's wedding (but that isn't a topic for discussion here) as she was legally divorced.

I have had many friends who married in the RC, were divorced and then wanted to remarry in a church and the RC wouldn't let them so they married in CoE or other Christian - and frequently converted as a result as well.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The fact that there was virtually no way that the Duke of Kent would ever be King, I’m sure, was a huge factor in his marriage. Plus only the 6 closest to the crown are looked at with so much scrutiny

I believe

The former law - which covered everyone - was very clear. It related to the religion of the spouse at the time of the marriage and Katherine was Anglican when she married and only converted later on. The Queen and the government sought legal advice on the status of the Duke of Kent at the time - due to security arrangements and his role as a regular representative of the Queen - something he couldn't do if he wasn't in the line of succession.

The change to the first six only took place in 2015 along with the change to birth order rather than male preference and the fact that the spouse's religion is not irrelevant - only the monarch must be a communicant member of the CoE now, for obvious reasons.

 

[Dlmagoo]

Because Henry VIII formed the CofE in order to be able to divorce, since in the Catholic faith they would have needed the blessing of the Pope to divorce and have it annulled in the church

 

[Dlmagoo]

Canilla

Actually the Church of England is Catholic in the sense that 'Catholic' is a fundamental term in the Church of England Apostolic creed which summarises the beliefs of the church.

The words of the creed are 'I believe in a Catholic and Apostolic church'. I say this every Sunday at my local Church of England church and asked my minister the meaning in the lead up to my confirmation as a member of the Church of England. His response was very clear - the Church of England church is Catholic but not Roman Catholic - we don't acknowledge the Pope as Head of the Church but do acknowledge much of the same ideas.

Transubstantiation is the reason why the two churches can't come together but there are regular talks at very high levels (maybe not directly involving the Pope and Archbishop of Canterbury but certainly some of their staff - according to my minister and a very good friend of mine who is a bishop in the Church of England and has been to a couple of these meetings) about reuniting the two churches if an agreement can be made on transubstantiation. It is the only sticking point because both churches do have a 'Catholic and Apostolic' belief and structure.

I’m Presbyterian and we recently(say the last 15-20 years or so) have begun saying “I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.”

They use “Catholic” as an umbrella term for what most of us believe

 

[Pranter]

If Camilla's former husband remarried in the Catholic Church (he is or at least was Catholic) then there has been a decree of nullity granted already.

If Parker-Bowles has remarried outside the Church then you can gather that no decree was granted at the time of his re-marriage, ergo in the eyes of the CC he (and Camilla) are living in a state of adultery UNLESS a decree was issued after a remarriage happened.


LaRae

 

[Dlmagoo]

The former law - which covered everyone - was very clear. It related to the religion of the spouse at the time of the marriage and Katherine was Anglican when she married and only converted later on. The Queen and the government sought legal advice on the status of the Duke of Kent at the time - due to security arrangements and his role as a regular representative of the Queen - something he couldn't do if he wasn't in the line of succession.

The change to the first six only took place in 2015 along with the change to birth order rather than male preference and the fact that the spouse's religion is not irrelevant - only the monarch must be a communicant member of the CoE now, for obvious reasons.

Ahhhh I see.

 

[Pranter]

Transubstantiation is the reason why the two churches can't come together but there are regular talks at very high levels

And there are other issues besides Transubstaniation that the CC and COE haven't come together. Quite a few of them.

I can't imagine someone at high levels would think this is the only issue.



LaRae

 

[Dlmagoo]

Very informative discussion y’all. ��

 

[Osipi]

They use “Catholic” as an umbrella term for what most of us believe

The word catholic is defined as meaning universal. All embracing, diverse, eclectic. Quite a few synonyms.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna.

 

[Denville]

The word catholic is defined as meaning universal. All embracing, diverse, eclectic. Quite a few synonyms.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna.

I presume this means "IS Camilla a Roman Catholic" and shes not....

 

[Biri]

But her children were raised Roman Catholics.
And they both married Anglicans and their children are probably raised Anglicans.

 

[Osipi]

I presume this means "IS Camilla a Roman Catholic" and shes not....

I think a lot of people question Camilla's denomination of faith because she married a Roman Catholic.

To be honest, I think the whole discriminatory view of the Act of Succession was something that was instigated and written in stone (well... ok... on paper) because after Henry VIII divorced himself and his country from Rome, there was a lot of religious politics that came into play and it was to assure that the succession would always remain with the Church of England. It was just how things are and continued. Personally, I'm happy to see that the discrimination against marrying a Roman Catholic has been abolished. I also understand and agree with the codicil that any monarch must be in communion with the Church of England. Roman Catholicism is the only denomination of faith the Act of Succession was adamant about. Politics, politics, politics.

When we really look into the Roman Catholic church and the Protestant denominations, its the same God. Its the same prayers and the same hymns with very little differences other than only one recognizes the authority of the Pope in Rome. My hubby's family is Presbyterian (Dad-in-law was a minister) and I was raised Roman Catholic. Attending my first Presbyterian service, I fit right in and felt comfortable with it.

 

[Denville]

well it was quite understandable that there was a fear of Roman Catholicism, after James II... and so it was that denomination which was forbidden to the RF. It might be time to break the link between the C of E and the Monarchy, but it hasn't quiete happened yet.

 

[Osipi]

I get the sense that it'll happen sooner rather than later. Religious politics just aren't in play in our world today as much as they used to be. As populations become more and more diverse, the majority of the people of a country being of one faith is rapidly diminishing.

 

[Denville]

I don't believe that religious politics isn't important. In the UK most people are not that into religion, but there are still very actively religious people..
The C of E is not well attended, but it is still there, its still the Established church and I don't think that there's going to be a general union of all Christian denomninations any time soon either.

 

[Gaudete]

well it was quite understandable that there was a fear of Roman Catholicism, after James II... and so it was that denomination which was forbidden to the RF. It might be time to break the link between the C of E and the Monarchy, but it hasn't quiete happened yet.

Sadly it hasn't gone away. There's always been a suspicion of Roman Catholics in this country, much less prominent now but it is seen as something foreign and strange by many. I think the monarchy will always stay linked to the Church of England but it won't be long (IMO) before the Lords Spiritual are either reformed or dispensed with altogether. I don't think people have an issue with the Queen being the nominal head of the church but they do have an issue with the CofE being over represented in the legislature when other religions aren't.

Back on topic, Camilla and Andrew will have received permission from their local Roman Catholic Bishop to marry in a Roman Catholic ceremony without Camilla being received into the Church first. Because she was already baptised and confirmed in the Anglican Church, she wouldn't have required "dispensation from disparity of cult" but she would have needed permission to enter into a mixed marriage. Which obviously they got. Such permission is very rarely given so I imagine they presented a good case at the time or knew the Bishop well.

 

[Osipi]

I don't believe that religious politics isn't important. In the UK most people are not that into religion, but there are still very actively religious people..
The C of E is not well attended, but it is still there, its still the Established church and I don't think that there's going to be a general union of all Christian denomninations any time soon either.

I agree with you that church attendance has diminished quite a bit not only, as you say, in the UK but also here in the States. Its kind of sad because to me, its a sign that people aren't really paying too much attention to their spiritual selves and focus much more on the physical and the "right here and now" issues.

Then again, who am I to talk. I can't remember the last time I set foot in a church. I just don't really identify with any organized religion.

 

[Nice Nofret]

... just a note on the power of the Pope: Italy is the country with the lowest birthrate in europe.... and that since a very long time.

 

[Mbruno]

I think a lot of people question Camilla's denomination of faith because she married a Roman Catholic.

To be honest, I think the whole discriminatory view of the Act of Succession was something that was instigated and written in stone (well... ok... on paper) because after Henry VIII divorced himself and his country from Rome, there was a lot of religious politics that came into play and it was to assure that the succession would always remain with the Church of England. It was just how things are and continued. Personally, I'm happy to see that the discrimination against marrying a Roman Catholic has been abolished. I also understand and agree with the codicil that any monarch must be in communion with the Church of England. Roman Catholicism is the only denomination of faith the Act of Succession was adamant about. Politics, politics, politics.

When we really look into the Roman Catholic church and the Protestant denominations, its the same God. Its the same prayers and the same hymns with very little differences other than only one recognizes the authority of the Pope in Rome. My hubby's family is Presbyterian (Dad-in-law was a minister) and I was raised Roman Catholic. Attending my first Presbyterian service, I fit right in and felt comfortable with it.

Actually, the legal ban on royal marriages to Catholics was introduced much later than Henry VIiii's time, more specifically, after the revolution of 1688. Both Charles I, Charles II and James Ii. had Catholic wives, didn't they ?

 

[Osipi]

Thanks Mbruno. Boy am I glad there are people here that know so much more than I do and can fill in areas where I get things totally and completely wrong.

(walks off whistling happily as she checks her "learn something new everyday" box for the day.)

 

[wyevale]

Charles I, Charles II and James Ii. had Catholic wives, didn't they ?

They did, and because of numerous attempts plots [Gunpowder/Popish and others] the Protestant 'establishment' sought PERMANENTLY to prevent the accession of a Catholic Monarch or the birth of a Catholic heir...

 

[Denville]

Its not that difficult to understand... The British associated Roman Catholicism with tyrany, like France.. and when James II a Catholic Monarch with a catholic wife took the throne, they were OK to keep him provided he didn't try to restore the RC hegemony and he had a Protestant heir. When he proved an inept ruler, and was obviously bent on restoring Catholicism.. and produced a male heir.. they wanted rid of him,

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

50% of the British have no religion anyway. In England and Wales the "no religion" group is larger than the group with a religion.

In the UK 17% still identify with the Anglican Church but that is a fast shrinking group as it is the eldest group in society. Roman-Catholicism is growing hard because of immigration (think of the Poles alone) and as this new influx is young and gets children who are baptized, as Catholics tend to be more determined to keep traditions, the expectation in that in a decade the Catholics will overturn the Anglicans as largest Christian denomination in the UK.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/13/uk-losing-faith-religion-young-reject-parents-beliefs

 

[Osipi]

They did, and because of numerous attempts plots [Gunpowder/Popish and others] the Protestant 'establishment' sought PERMANENTLY to prevent the accession of a Catholic Monarch or the birth of a Catholic heir...

It is near impossible to understand or 'account' for the hysterical fear of Catholicism over nearly 400 years, altho' certainly there was MONSTROUS behaviour on 'both sides'.

History is chock full of religious sects going to war against each other and killing each other off in a righteous manner. Its been that way, I think, since the dawn of man and two brothers didn't see eye to eye on things as the story goes. And such was the Reformation. It caused a whole lot of political problems.

 

[Gaudete]

In many ways it was the first religious extremist conflict we saw in this country. Zealots causing misery in the most barbaric way because they claimed their religion was the right path. Britain certainly contributed its fair share of Saints and Martyrs over the last 500 years and its only really been in the last 150 years that British Catholics have full emancipation. Even today, as this discussion shows, the mere suggestion that someone is Catholic can cause controversy. It’s an ingrained prejudice that’s not as bad today as it once was but it still exists.

50% of the British have no religion anyway. In England and Wales the "no religion" group is larger than the group with a religion.

In the UK 17% still identify with the Anglican Church but that is a fast shrinking group as it is the eldest group in society. Roman-Catholicism is growing hard because of immigration (think of the Poles alone) and as this new influx is young and gets children who are baptized, as Catholics tend to be more determined to keep traditions, the expectation in that in a decade the Catholics will overturn the Anglicans as largest Christian denomination in the UK.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/13/uk-losing-faith-religion-young-reject-parents-beliefs

I would question whether it is because of immigration quite honestly. RCIA classes are full every year and most are British citizens who have come to religion late in life or who are moving away from Anglicanism. Catholicism is growing in the UK in quite a remarkable way. Whilst migrants have undoubtedly swelled congregation size in some churches, they were already Catholics. The rate of converts is impressive and sustained. It’s been that way here for around 15 years now.

 

[Osipi]

Prime example of recent turbulence would be "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

It really made my day to see not only the Queen, but also Charles and Camilla reach out to mend the fences. I think its one thing I do admire about Charles is that he is a shining example of religious tolerance.

BTW: Camilla's son, Tom, was baptized and raised in the Roman Catholic church. The Prince of Wales is his godfather.

 

[Gaudete]

What Charles has done in recent years for inter faith relations is no short of miraculous. He’s helped to heal so many old wounds and provide a dialogue we sorely need if we’re going to make this new social fabric work. Camilla has naturally supported him in that and that’s to be applauded too.

 

[irish_royalist]

Prime example of recent turbulence would be "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

It really made my day to see not only the Queen, but also Charles and Camilla reach out to mend the fences. I think its one thing I do admire about Charles is that he is a shining example of religious tolerance.

BTW: Camilla's son, Tom, was baptized and raised in the Roman Catholic church. The Prince of Wales is his godfather.

I've tried my best to stay off this thread - I live in Northern Ireland, and have seen and heard far too much about the supposed differences between Protestants and Catholics, during the troubles as highlighted by Osipi.

However I thought I'd share a nice Christmas story with you, which highlights that perhaps we're not so different after all - Merry Christmas to you all, and thanks for all the fun and information on here!

Church of Ireland opens doors to Catholic neighbours - BBC News