Grand Duke George of Russia and Nobile Rebecca Bettarini; 24 Sept. & 1 Oct. 2021

[An Ard Ri]

The duchess of Bragança looked really lovely.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The problem with reigning Houses sending a royal representative is that Russia is problematic after shooting down flight MH17, after poisoning spies and oponents, after occupying parts of Ukraine, after adding the Crimea to Russia, etc. No any West-European Government will enthusiastically approve their head of state or a representative to be seen partying in Russia.

Note that also republican heads of state have no acte de présence (Putin included).

 

[Prinsara]

I wonder if Juan Carlos would have gone if his health was not a factor?

 

[Marc23]

I wonder if Juan Carlos would have gone if his health was not a factor?

For sure.

I read in one of the royal blogs that when Maria Vladimirovna wanted to get married, it was intended that the royal wedding would take place in Geneva Switzerland, where there is an Orthodox church and because it was most practical for most royals to come to central Europe. When Juan Carlos heard that, he ordered her wedding to be held in Spain as he couldn't leave Spain at the time of an intended wedding and because he wanted to participate personally in it.

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2021/09/an-imperial-and-royal-marriage-in-madrid.html

Here is the link in case you have time to read. It's interesting.

 

[fandesacs2003]

The problem with reigning Houses sending a royal representative is that Russia is problematic after shooting down flight MH17, after poisoning spies and oponents, after occupying parts of Ukraine, after adding the Crimea to Russia, etc. No any West-European Government will enthusiastically approve their head of state or a representative to be seen partying in Russia.



Note that also republican heads of state have no acte de présence (Putin included).

But the newlyweds are not state representatives, neither Russia are an empire anymore. This wedding was not a state wedding and invitees were privately related to them. So should not be really an issue.
If I'm not wrong grand duchess Maria is note accepted by all the remaining Romanovs as the head if the Russian Imperial family though.
Furtermore, I'm surprised by the total absence of the Spanish RF thought.

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[victor1319]

The problem with reigning Houses sending a royal representative is that Russia is problematic...

Well, they could have sent minor ranked Royals! Nobility and Royalty are somewhat a class too. And what is good for one House, might be good for the others too.

Plus: Maintaining relationships is not a bad thing.

And Putin might have not come, but there were the cadets with their sabres, which gave the church wedding an official touch. So, no official visit, but, you know... a gesture....

 

[Prinsara]

For sure.

I read in one of the royal blogs that when Maria Vladimirovna wanted to get married, it was intended that the royal wedding would take place in Geneva Switzerland, where there is an Orthodox church and because it was most practical for most royals to come to central Europe. When Juan Carlos heard that, he ordered her wedding to be held in Spain as he couldn't leave Spain at the time of an intended wedding and because he wanted to participate personally in it.

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2021/09/an-imperial-and-royal-marriage-in-madrid.html

Here is the link in case you have time to read. It's interesting.

Maria Vladimirovna had a lovely dress for her wedding.

 

[stef]

The Greek Royal House has not been represented, I do not know if the family has been invited to the event. Duchess Olga represents the Royal House of Aosta, King Constantine only delegates his representation of him to his children .
Neither have other Royal houses been represented such as the Spanish, or the Romanian, or even the Serbian, because the representative of the Royal House of Serbia is Prince Alexander and his sons
I believe that the presence of Queen Sofia had raised great expectations because the Spanish press stated some time ago that she would be present, but the Royal House of Spain has not confirmated nothing, however, she has not been present.

I agree with the comment of Duc_et_Pair, attending this event may mean a compromise ( for example, Queen Sofia like member of the Royal house of Spain) due to the problems of Russia with many states:
"..problematic after shooting down flight MH17, after poisoning spies and opponents, after occupying parts of Ukraine, after adding the Crimea to Russia, etc."

 

[W.Y.CII]

Well, they could have sent minor ranked Royals! Nobility and Royalty are somewhat a class too. And what is good for one House, might be good for the others too.

Plus: Maintaining relationships is not a bad thing.

Even if the reigning houses just send minor ranked royals, they are still representing the monarch, not much differences. It may sound mean but from a reigning monarch perspective, maintaining "diplomatic" relationship with non-reigning disputed heir could be meaningless or even harmful. (If they have personal relationships then it's another story, but I think the only family has close relationship with the groom's family here is Spain (JC).)

 

[Stefan]

Furtermore, I'm surprised by the total absence of the Spanish RF thought.

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After noone from the spanish RF showed up at the Noto Wedding to which there are much nearer and closer relationships i was not surprised at all that none of them attended this Wedding.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

But the newlyweds are not state representatives, neither Russia are an empire anymore. This wedding was not a state wedding and invitees were privately related to them. So should not be really an issue.
If I'm not wrong grand duchess Maria is note accepted by all the remaining Romanovs as the head if the Russian Imperial family though.
Furtermore, I'm surprised by the total absence of the Spanish RF thought.

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I can completely imagine the uproar when for an example a Dutch royal goes partying into Russia, while in the meantime the grieving familes of 298 (mainly Dutch) victims are fighting for justice against a Russia denying the BUK missile fired at a peaceful passenger jet came from them.

Just to name an example. This has nothing to do with Maria Vladimirovna but with the location. Was the wedding held in Brussels, Berlin, Barcelona, Belfast, Berne, Bucharest, whatever, there is no doubt reigning Royal Houses would be represented.

 

[Marengo]

You are right that it will probably take a lot of years before a member of the Dutch royal house can set a foot in Russia with approval of the cabinet. So many of our countrymen were murdered by the Russian army.

But I am not so sure that anybody would have attended this wedding otherwise as they simply do not seem to know each other well. Neither Maria, nor her son, nor her father were ever spotted at Dutch royal events - or at royal events in Scandinavia for that matter. In Belgium the Grand Duchess did attend the funeral of King Baudouin but that was nearly 30 years ago.

The last Romanov who was a regular guest in The Hague was Princess Kira Kirillovna, wife of Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia and a cousin and friend of Queen Juliana. Queen Wilhelmina tried to keep her husband's Russian and other relatives at a distance after the first world war -fearful they would be asking for money was the explanation offered by Prof. Fasseur in his biography.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When president Medvedev visited the Netherlands to open the Hermitage, it was a chance to invite Georg, double related to the Orange-Nassaus via the Hohenzollerns (father) and the Romanovs (mother).

But at the same time: having Georg or Maria Vladimirovna seated at an official act with the heads of state of Russia and of the Netherlands would be legitimizing a claim.

And that is a position they wanted to avoid as a longstanding principle. In 1964 the Dutch royal couple did not attend their own daughter's wedding to a Bourbon-Parma because in no any way it wished to be used as a factor in the quest of the then unoccupied Spanish throne.

This policy of keeping pretenders out of public is longstanding. Georg Friedrich of Prussia, the other Prince of Orange, told the relations with his Orange-Nassau cousins were warm and amical. We have never ever seen him in public with them. There are puctures of King Michael and Queen Anne of Romania welcomed by Queen Beatrix. But when Princess Margareta and Prince Radu made a three-day visit to the Netherlands, fron their encounters with the King and Queen at Huis ten Bosch not one picture was released, also not by the Romanians themselves.

I feel this reluctance, this wish of not to be dragged into affairs of pretenders is general under most Royal Houses. Here the other complicating factor is the location: a wedding held in Russia, a country which is under EU sanctions. So no EU head of state could go partying there while all 27 memberstates have agreed a hard stance on Russia.

 

[Stefan]

When president Medvedev visited the Netherlands to open the Hermitage, it was a chance to invite Georg, double related to the Orange-Nassaus via the Hohenzollerns (father) and the Romanovs (mother).

But at the same time: having Georg or Maria Vladimirovna seated at an official act with the heads of state of Russia and of the Netherlands would be legitimizing a claim.

And that is a position they wanted to avoid as a longstanding principle. In 1964 the Dutch royal couple did not attend their own daughter's wedding to a Bourbon-Parma because in no any way it wished to be used as a factor in the quest of the then unoccupied Spanish throne.

This policy of keeping pretenders out of public is longstanding. Georg Friedrich of Prussia, the other Prince of Orange, told the relations with his Orange-Nassau cousins were warm and amical. We have never ever seen him in public with them. There are puctures of King Michael and Queen Anne of Romania welcomed by Queen Beatrix. But when Princess Margareta and Prince Radu made a three-day visit to the Netherlands, fron their encounters with the King and Queen at Huis ten Bosch not one picture was released, also not by the Romanians themselves.

It seems this Policy does not extend to the greek royals who have attended several dutch Royal Events like the Wedding of Willem-Alexander and Máxima.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I can completely imagine the uproar when for an example a Dutch royal goes partying into Russia, while in the meantime the grieving familes of 298 (mainly Dutch) victims are fighting for justice against a Russia denying the BUK missile fired at a peaceful passenger jet came from them.

Just to name an example. This has nothing to do with Maria Vladimirovna but with the location. Was the wedding held in Brussels, Berlin, Barcelona, Belfast, Berne, Bucharest, whatever, there is no doubt reigning Royal Houses would be represented.

Valid point, got it

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[fandesacs2003]

It seems this Policy does not extend to the greek royals who have attended several dutch Royal Events like the Wedding of Willem-Alexander and Máxima.

This is different. Because last reigning King of Greece is still alive and 2 (3) of his children were born when he was ruling King. So this is not a claim it is an historical fact. In top of that they are family.
GD Maria V is just a descendent of a former ruling family, who is not even accepted by the full former Russian RF

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[Duc_et_Pair]

It seems this Policy does not extend to the greek royals who have attended several dutch Royal Events like the Wedding of Willem-Alexander and Máxima.

The Greeks (and King Michael and King Simeon) were different because all of them were reigning, befriended, recognized heads of state whom became dethroned.

Princess Margareta of Romania was welcomed (in private), possibly to her official status in Romania, but when a former reigning House breaks into several factions, they seem to keep distance.

It is a pity because I like to see the former Houses remaining part of the royal fabric.I know there are more Romanov factions but realistically the line of Maria Vladimirovna is the most visible. We will see if the newlyweds (40 and 39) will be able to procreate this line.

 

[Stefan]

The Greeks (and King Michael and King Simeon) were different because all of them were reigning, befriended, recognized heads of state whom became dethroned.

Princess Margareta of Romania was welcomed (in private), possibly to her official status in Romania, but when a former reigning House breaks into several factions, they seem to keep distance.

But this is not the case in the prussian Royal House. Prince Georg Friedrich is the undisputed Head of the Family. Not even his disputes with his uncles where not about his position as head of the House but about Money.

And he also does not claime the former german and or prussian Throne.

 

[maria-olivia]

To come back to this Imperial Wedding which was approved by President Poutin it was a real Royal Wedding. I saw sitting the Wedding in live in the greatest Cathedral St Isaac Grand Duchess Maria looked as Empress Catherine the Great
The Guests were the same ex Royal Houses as for her Weddding , but it was in Spain and the King and the Queen of Spain and also a lot of German Royals who were missing this time.

No main Royal , no President , no important Protection Service.

I saw for the first the second most important second Guest , Helen Kirby . Her Father was very Rich and died during WW2. I don't know about her life but she never married. The satin and Fur Dresses were made by the same House and being so Rich she certainly paid them. At the Evening she wore the main important tiara , Grand Duchess Marie Wedding tiara , so it is still in the family.

This Wedding Event was the Glory of the House of Romanov in their Country. Well done

 

[fandesacs2003]

Grand Duchess MV dress is not nice at all. Flashy and not nice for her figure. Yellow with enormous flowers. It is not suitable neither to her body shape nor to her position as mother of the groom / imperial highness.

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[Tatiana Maria]

Even if the reigning houses just send minor ranked royals, they are still representing the monarch, not much differences. It may sound mean but from a reigning monarch perspective, maintaining "diplomatic" relationship with non-reigning disputed heir could be meaningless or even harmful. (If they have personal relationships then it's another story, but I think the only family has close relationship with the groom's family here is Spain (JC).)

In top of that they are family.
GD Maria V is just a descendent of a former ruling family, who is not even accepted by the full former Russian RF

Personally I doubt that the mere existence of other pretenders (who, as Duc said, are much less visible than Maria Vladimirovna and Georgi Mikhailovich in any event) makes any difference. The nonexistent French throne has three highly visible pretenders who attended royal events.

But when one or more pretenders are politically relevant, which was the case for Spain in 1964, and arguably in this case considering the Putin administration's cooperation with the wedding, that is a factor to be taken into account.

On a side note, Maria Vladimirovna does not recognize the other pretenders as members of the "Imperial Family" because they would not have been members under the equal marriage rules which were used while it was a reigning house.

It seems this Policy does not extend to the greek royals who have attended several dutch Royal Events like the Wedding of Willem-Alexander and Máxima.

I suppose the former Greek royal family is in a special position because the former King of Greece is a brother-in-law of both the Queen of Denmark and the King emeritus of Spain. He and his family are as close relations to reigning families as the Guillermos of the Netherlands or the Behns of Norway, and doubly. At the wedding of the Crown Prince of Norway the relatives of the Queen of Denmark were the only members of former reigning houses to attend.

 

[kaiserin8]

Archduke Maximilian of Austria here in the photos was there. A 3rd cousin of the Groom. The Grooms great grandfather is the brother of the grandmother of the Archduke Maximilian.

 

[kaiserin8]

The Dukes of Anjou together at the Imperial Wedding.
Legitimist and Orleans

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

To be honest, this wedding gave me a chaotic and staged feel. As if I have been watching an operetta: Die Csárdásfürstin or Der Zarewitsch.
I have to remind myself that this was a real wedding and no theatre.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Was the Duchess of Cadaval present?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The Dukes of Anjou together at the Imperial Wedding.
Legitimist and Orleans

I have felt more genuine warmth emanating from an ice skating rink.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Duke of is not seen with his wife since a while. He came alone as for the previous September Weddings. The Spanish Duchess had to loan a Chaumet tiara . Diane should have worn her Family tiara.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

To be honest, this wedding gave me a chaotic and staged feel. As if I have been watching an operetta: Die Csárdásfürstin or Der Zarewitsch.
I have to remind myself that this was a real wedding and no theatre.

TBH, after a more thorough review on Youtube I am seeing what you saw. Priests and photographers scurrying around, guests becoming fidgety, and whomever was filming should hang their heads in shame because for about 75% of the Liturgy the bride was blocked and I could only see the groom.?

I could forgive the bridal couple for being nervous but at times the presiding bishops and priests appeared bumbling...amateurish. I know its been over a hundred years since there was an Imperial/ Royal wedding, but didn't they rehearse?!

St. Isaac's is magnificent, but cavernous and overwhelming, adding to the lack of intimacy and feeling as if one was witnessing comedic
opera as you stated.

St. Petersburg has so many glorious, grand churches and cathedrals. An embarrasment of riches. I am not sure why they decided on this one.

Still, the overall effect was of grandeur imo, especially if you only watch snippets from the news or from YouTube. And the choir was beyond compare...the best thing about the entire affair in fact.

 

[maria-olivia]

I loved the Wedding but not the Gala. A lot of wifes were missing and Chaumet loan tiars.
As for Orders and Sashes for Men , each one wore the Order of their House

I don't understand why The self proclamated Duc of Anjou was so important at this Wedding . His wife asked to take Pictures of her two different times I spuppose in their Hotel an wore a loan tiara.
He is wearing a French important Sash and is Citizen and no Royal in Spain.
Thanks for help

 

[kaiserin8]

Louis Alphonse Duke of Anjou is a French citizen and holds a French passport. He is a dual citizen