Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: Current Claimant to the Throne 1: 2003 - Oct 2006


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Grand Duchess pushes Russia to admit mistake

Descendant of last czar pushes Russia to admit mistake
By GRAEME SMITH
Monday, January 9, 2006 Posted at 4:57 AM EST
From Monday's Globe and Mail

Yekaterinburg, Russia — On the face of it, Maria Romanova's legal application to Russian prosecutors might seem straightforward.
As the self-described head of the surviving family of Nicholas II, Russia's last czar, Ms. Romanova wants rehabilitation for her ancestors, according to her lawyer. Under Russian law, this would mean a formal admission that Nicholas II was unjustly killed along with his wife, children and attendants after revolution swept away Russia's monarchy.
Boris Yeltsin went far beyond such recognition during his term as Russian president, apologizing for the killings and describing the incident as one of the most shameful chapters of Russian history. The Russian Orthodox Church went even further, canonizing the family as minor saints.
But the country's legal system has never recognized that anything wrong happened on the night of July 16 and 17, 1918, when Bolsheviks lined up the royal family in the basement of a house in Yekaterinburg and shot them to death.
"This is the last step," said German Lukyanov, the family lawyer. "Why must this be done? Russia needs it, to finally close this disgraceful, bloody chapter of Russian history."
Closing the case of Russia's last czar might prove difficult, however. Many details about the incident are passionately disputed, and Ms. Romanova's application last month has shaken the dust off old debates that some Russians would rather leave undisturbed.
"The question of the czars is implied in the question of whether communism was a good idea," said Ivan Plotnikov, 80, a retired colonel and professor of history in Yekaterinburg.
"And this is a question some people still ask themselves."
The emotions run deepest in this industrial city on the eastern edge of Siberia, about 1,600 kilometres east of Moscow.
During interviews, some historians grew red-faced, raised their voices and even foamed at the mouth when arguing about what happened here almost a century ago.
The downfall of the royal Romanov family started in 1917, when discontent with the monarchy broke out into riots on the streets of St. Petersburg. The government resigned and parliament asked the emperor to give up his throne. Nicholas obeyed, and was eventually forced into house arrest in Yekaterinburg.
As civil war raged in the summer of 1918, opponents of the Bolsheviks approached the city and Bolshevik leaders decided to kill the czar to prevent the advancing army from saving him.
But questions about the killings almost outnumber the facts: Did Vladimir Lenin himself give the execution order, as many believe? Were the remains buried in a shallow grave, as some say, or have the real bodies never been discovered?
The absence of any court records or written execution order could make it difficult to apply the Russian law on rehabilitation, some experts say, because the Prosecutor-General may decide there isn't any decision that could be overturned.
The Russian government held a burial ceremony in St. Petersburg in 1998 for remains of the czar, his wife, three of his children and four attendants, after a geologist claimed the discovery of their bodies outside Yekaterinburg.
But the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church boycotted the event because of doubts about the authenticity of the bones, and those questions grew stronger after DNA analysis by Japanese researchers contradicted the results of several other DNA tests.
Perhaps most troubling for Ms. Romanova's legal process are the questions posed by experts in Yekaterinburg about her credibility. The birth certificate for czar Nicholas that she submitted as part of her application looks as though it could belong to anybody, said Vadim Viner, a businessman from Yekaterinburg who has been researching the death of the Romanovs for 17 years.
"She probably got the certificate from some homeless person whose name was Nicholas," Mr. Viner said, slouching in a badly rumpled three-piece suit in his small, dark office.
Mr. Lukyanov, the lawyer, said every document was obtained through exhaustive research, and added that he hopes to keep the question of rehabilitation separate from the debate over the royal bones.
While no execution order from Moscow is known to exist, Mr. Lukyanov has submitted a copy of Leon Trotsky's memoirs about his role as a leading Bolshevik.
Returning from the front in the civil war, Mr. Trotsky wrote, he asked another Bolshevik leader, Jacob Sverdlov, what had happened to the czar. Mr. Sverdlov replied that the entire family was shot dead, and explained: "Ilyich Lenin thought we shouldn't leave them a living banner in such hard times."
Under the law, Russia's Prosecutor-General has until March 1 to respond to Mr. Lukyanov's request.
Whatever the result, Russians will likely remain fascinated by the mystery.
"Russia is looking for truth not just on this question but on many others," said Veniamin Alekseevm, a history professor at the Russian Academy of Sciences.
"If we understand this event, then we can understand what happened to Russia in the 20th century."
 
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Maria is my favorite Romanov because she has the courage to defend the right of the Dynasty as an important part of Russian history, while the other Romanovs just hate her for getting the attention. At least she keeps the name on the news.
Anyone knows if her son is going to get married and reproduce soon?
 
I don't know when Georg plans on getting married but I am quite sure that when he does it will be to another royal. Surely his mother would'nt approve of anything less than that.
 
Elizabeth_Leona said:
Georgi and his mother Maria may put a claim in for the throne of Russia, two slight problems...woman can not inherit the throne of Russia and neither can their decentants (comes from Tsar Paul's hatred of his mother) AND Georgi is technically a Prince of Prussia and NOT a Grand Duke or Tsarvich or whatever he wants to come across to be of Russia. I really can not stand him and his mother (especially his mother!) I find she very pushy, too push, though I do have to say any pictures I have seen of him in recent years I can see that he has improved a lot! compared to the cubby smug looking brat he came across as a child.

That's not true at all. Under the Pauline Laws, women could inherit the throne provided there were no male imperial dynasts left as defined under the statute.

The real problem with Maria is her father's declaration in 1970 that she was the only remaining dynast due to the fact his cousins had not made equal marriages under the Pauline Laws. As Head of the House, Grand Duke Vladimir had the right to interpret the Laws, however, he could not grant equality to his own marriage without also granting equality to his cousins' marriages to Russian noble women.

Leonida was a Bagration princess, but the Royal House of Georgia lost their sovereign status when they were annexed into the Russian Empire. They were inscribed in the Russian Book of Nobility and could not be considered a "reigining, sovereign house". So, Vladimir's marriage was no more equal than his cousins.

Given that point, Maria would not be the current heir because there are other more senior male lines of descent who would take precedence over her and Prince George.
 
Most of the European Royal Houses do not recognize Maria as Head of the Imperial House of Romanov and hold the position the dynasty died with the death of Grand Duke Vladimir.

In reality, Georg-Friedrich von Hohenzollern is probably the valid heir to the imperial throne under the strictest interpretation of the Pauline Laws through Vladimir's sister, Grand Duchess Kira, who made an equal marriage to Prince Louis-Ferdinand, and is his grandmother.
 
I believe I saw her name on the PDF list of guests at the wedding of Felipe and Letizia, she was the only representative of the Romanovs. Her name also appears in the succesion list (the long list) for the British monarchy. So Maria seems to be very well connected.
If only the other Romanovs decided to imitate her and do something for the restoration of the monarchy, them they could easily over shadow her and her son. But so far she is the public face of the Romanovs, her name is the one that comes up the most as a possible candidate, not to mention the protection given to her family by Yeltsin. Until them, she seems to be the star of the family. The rest of the Romanovs need one good public relations agent, because Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is both agent and client all rolled over in one person.
 
Juan Carlos recognizes Maria as a courtesy because her father, Grand Duke Vladimir, settled in Madrid fifty years ago and she is a citizen of Spain.
 
Toledo said:
If only the other Romanovs decided to imitate her and do something for the restoration of the monarchy, them they could easily over shadow her and her son. But so far she is the public face of the Romanovs, her name is the one that comes up the most as a possible candidate, not to mention the protection given to her family by Yeltsin. Until them, she seems to be the star of the family. The rest of the Romanovs need one good public relations agent, because Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is both agent and client all rolled over in one person.

Maria is the most ambitious, but the rest of the family isn't interested in a restoration of the imperial throne. They know and acknowledge it is impossible to even consider it and work quietly in other ways to help the Russian people.

Yeltsin used Vladimir, Leonida and Maria for political purposes only. He granted no special dispensation to them and the Russian political establishment has no intention of restoring the Tsar as head of state.

Also, Maria is a Grand Duchess in her own head. In Imperial Russia, she would only have been entitled to the rank of Serene Highness with the style of Princess Romanovskaya-Bagration. Her father made an honorable, but unequal marriage, to a noble and royal family of good standing who were subjects of the Tsar. There is no question she is morganatic under the Pauline Laws as are all of the current descendants.
 
branchg said:
Maria is the most ambitious, but the rest of the family isn't interested in a restoration of the imperial throne. They know and acknowledge it is impossible to even consider it and work quietly in other ways to help the Russian people.

Yeltsin used Vladimir, Leonida and Maria for political purposes only. He granted no special dispensation to them and the Russian political establishment has no intention of restoring the Tsar as head of state.

Also, Maria is a Grand Duchess in her own head. In Imperial Russia, she would only have been entitled to the rank of Serene Highness with the style of Princess Romanovskaya-Bagration. Her father made an honorable, but unequal marriage, to a noble and royal family of good standing who were subjects of the Tsar. There is no question she is morganatic under the Pauline Laws as are all of the current descendants.

Well, for me she get extra points for at least trying to restore Russia's original form of government while the other Romanovs just want-but-not-want the job to be done. Let's imagine for a minute that Puttin wakes up one morning with this idea that the Republic thing has kind of wore off its welcome and it would be a little more stable (not to mention full of comercial posibilities) to restore the Czardom. Let's say he tosses a coin between Maria and her cousin Prince Michael of Kent (the one that looks like Nicholas II). One of them wins. The other Romanovs from Siberia to Patagonia (if there are some over there :rolleyes: ) would hit the roof and demand a re-count, demand that the crown is for one of them even if they never ever lifted a finger to attempt a restoration, if they never attempted to become visible, to even support openly pro-monarchy movements. What would happen if after the possibilities are open for a monarchy you have the woman who made that possibility happen measured against the Romanovs who did not show concern about it until then? If I were to advise Maria I'll say 'woman, get a bodyguard pronto!'

In Spain we got Juan Carlos, that is the man who should not have been king. The correct King would have been his cousin, the Duke of Cadiz, thus, his son the so called Duke of Anjou and French pretender. But, Juan Carlos played the game and beat out all others against all odds, legitimate or not so legitimate candidates. Had any other candidate assumed the throne of Spain we would be a republic with a lot of military coups under our belt since 1975. The Duke of Cadiz and his mercurial wife (Franco's spoiled grand daugther) would had been a death sentence to the monarchy.

I see Maria as an attempt to be like Juan Carlos, or at least to have his lucky strike in Russia. She might not be the legitimate candidate, but at least she is the one trying to keep the candidacy open as another alternative to the Republic.
And for that, I'll give her extra points against her cranky cousins. ;)

The main problem with Maria is her son, she is the face of restoration and he seems, like the other Romanovs, just waiting to pounce on her work and take it.
 
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He doesn't need his mother's approval to marry. As a son of a Prince of Prussia, he only needs Georg-Friedrich's approval to marry as a member of the Hohenzollern Imperial House.
 
He is the morganatic grandson of the former Head of the House and cannot hold the style, title or rank of Imperial Highness and Grand Duke of Russia under the Pauline Laws. If Grand Duke Vladimir had changed the House Rules to allow it, that's another matter. He did not.

Only the children and male grandchildren of the Tsar were entitled to hold it, provided they were the issue of an equal marriage. Otherwise, you were denied the right to hold imperial rank, but retained honorable association in the House of Romanov with a lesser style granted at the discretion of the Tsar (i.e. HSH Prince Romanovsky-Bagration).
 
I For one feel positive about Russias Future And hope that The Romanovs are restored in my lifetime (although I Know its a far off chance) :)
 
branchg said:
He doesn't need his mother's approval to marry. As a son of a Prince of Prussia, he only needs Georg-Friedrich's approval to marry as a member of the Hohenzollern Imperial House.

Does he has any current girlfriend-candidate? :confused:

Royal Fan said:
I For one feel positive about Russias Future And hope that The Romanovs are restored in my lifetime (although I Know its a far off chance) :)

Me too, and since anything can happen these days I don't write the Romanovs off yet, not just Maria but her cousins. If they found a way to make peace with each other it would improve their chances as a group rather than as indivuduals. After all, once there is a Czar or Czarina back in town the cousins will be upgraded, last names will be adjusted and a glamorous new era for Russia as a constitutional monarchy will start. And it's good for tourism too.
 
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Need info on writing to Maria Vladamirovna...

Does anyone know where I can send a letter to Maria Vladamirovna?? Email would be OK too but I would prefer to send a more formal letter. Thanks in advance!
 
I think she has her own Russian language website that she has been trying to translate to english. The Alexander Palace Time Machine forum is a good place to locate things like that. I'll pm you the link in a second.
 
branchg said:
He is the morganatic grandson of the former Head of the House and cannot hold the style, title or rank of Imperial Highness and Grand Duke of Russia under the Pauline Laws. If Grand Duke Vladimir had changed the House Rules to allow it, that's another matter. He did not.

Only the children and male grandchildren of the Tsar were entitled to hold it, provided they were the issue of an equal marriage. Otherwise, you were denied the right to hold imperial rank, but retained honorable association in the House of Romanov with a lesser style granted at the discretion of the Tsar (i.e. HSH Prince Romanovsky-Bagration).

The claim that HIH Grand Duke Vladimir Cyrillovitch’s marriage to Princess Leonida Bagration-Moukhransky was morganatic is no more than a concoction of Nicholas Romanovich (self-styled “HH Prince of Russia”) and the RFA. HIH Grand Duke George Mikhailovich is every bit subject to the Pauline Laws when he marries, as he is (aside from his mother) the only other member of the Imperial House.

Here is a link to a wonderful document that completely destroys the myth that Vladimir’s marriage to Leonida was morganatic, which would thereby cause the Imperial House to now be extinct: http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/gotha/russuclw.htm
 
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The Bagration-Moukhranskys were subjects of Imperial Russia after the annextion of Georgia into the Russian Empire. They were inscribed in the Fifth Book of Nobility and held the same status as the other noble families of Russian Federation, some of whom had reigned in their kingdoms as well.

The assertion of Grand Duke Vladimir that Leonida was of a sovereign, reigning house, as defined in the Imperial Pauline Law, is ridiculous and he knew it. If he was so confident of his ruling, why not formally declare it as Head of the Imperial House? Because doing so would require him to grant equality to his cousins' marriages to other, equally worthy Russian noble families, some of whom had greater status in Imperial Russia and who had male children who would take precedence over Maria in the succession.

Leonida would never have been granted the status of Imperial Highness or Grand Duchess of Russia under the Tsar. The marriage would have been treated as honorable, but morganatic, with no rights of succession to any children born of it.

In reality, Maria's status is the same as everyone else because they are ALL morganatic under the Pauline Law. The most compliant candidate under the Pauline Law would be his great-nephew, HI & RH Georg-Friedrich von Hohenzollern, Prince of Prussia, after the death of Grand Duke Vladimir. His grandmother, the former Grand Duchess Kira, made an equal marriage to Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia that conformed to the Imperial Statute.
 
Sooo

Did the Imperial Family used Semi-Salic Law for succession or Male Primogeniture like UK and Denmark?
 
Women could inherit the throne in Russia provided there were no eligible male dynasts under the Pauline Statute. In the case of Grand Duke Vladimir, upon his death, there were no eligible dynasts left, male or female, as defined under the Imperial Rules.

The succession to the throne would then pass through the next eligible line, which in this case was female through Vladimir's sister, Grand Duchess Kira, whose children all married unequally with the exception of Georg-Friedrich's father. Since his father's death, Georg-Friedrich has been the Head of the Imperial House of Prussia and is arguably the qualified pretender to the Russian throne as well.
 
branchg said:
The succession to the throne would then pass through the next eligible line, which in this case was female through Vladimir's sister, Grand Duchess Kira, whose children all married unequally with the exception of Georg-Friedrich's father.
Not forgetting one of Grand Duchess Kira's daughters, Princess Marie Cecile, who married HH Duke Friedrich August of Oldenburg.

In a convoluted turn of events the Duke, after being divorced from Princess Marie Cecile, married Princess Donata (neé Countess zu Castell-Rüdenhausen) who is the widow of Prince Louis Ferdinand (jnr), and none other than Prince Georg Friedrich's mother. Family get-togethers must be quite chilly!
 
Warren said:
Not forgetting one of Grand Duchess Kira's daughters, Princess Marie Cecile, who married HH Duke Friedrich August of Oldenburg.

Correct, although there is some debate as to whether the line would pass through the next eligible male child of Kira, rather than the next eldest eligible child, who is Princess Marie. If valid, then the current Russian pretender would be Princess Marie's eldest son, HH Duke Paul Vladimir of Oldenburg.
 
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Yes There are many Claiments with Romanov Blood

As I do not believe that someone who is royal by marriage should rule when a monarchy that has fallen I shall only give the names of claiments with true Romanov blood. By the way Georgi Mikhailovich Romanov is like Alexander III. By saying this I mean that he is in my opinion (pardon if I offend you) a person who is not extraodinarily bright. Not to mention that if he chooses conservatism like Alexander III, then a Russia with a monarchy would fail miserably. Despite what most people say, Russia has many natural resources that could make it great once again. Once again, in my opinion there are two typews of government that work for a large country and those types of governments would be either a Monarchy with Parliment or a Socialist country that doesn't take advantage of its people. After all, the only reason socialism has a bad name is because of corrupt leaders. The other blood Romanovs are listed below. And no I didn't type any twice. Also, they all have the last name Romanov or, in the Russian formal Romanovich or Romanovna.

Descended From Nicholas I Czar and Emperor of All Russias

Dmitri Pavlovich
Mikhail Pavolivich
Dmitri Romanovich
Nikolai Romanovich
Mikhail Androvich
Andrei Androvich
Peter Androvich
Andrei Androvich
Mikhail Fedorovich
Mikhail Mikhailovich
Nikita Nikitich
Fedor Nikitich
Rostislov Rostaslovich
Nikita Rostaslavich
Nikolai Rostislovich
Nicholas Christopher
Danie Joseph
Cory Christopher

Descended From Alexander II Czar and Emperor of All Russias

Georgi Mikhailovich
Marie Vladmirovna who married-Franz Wilhelm of Pussia
Leonida Goergievna
Angelica Philippa Kauffmann
Paul R. Ilyinsky 1928-2006


The other realatives listed above are usually not spoken of often, but through extensive research one can find their names. Obviously not Georgi or his mother.
 
They are all Romanovs and descendants of imperial dynasts, but ineligible under the Pauline Laws to succeed to the throne. If Russia ever restored the monarchy (which is highly unlikely), they could choose anyone to be the next Sovereign.
 
Well, in reality, there would be tremendous political difficulties for Maria in the event of an imperial restoration, not least the matter of her German son and Georgian mother, two things the Russian nationalists would never accept. Her ties to the Patriach would also be viewed very suspiciously in light of historic hostilities towards the Church.

Prince Michael of Kent would probably be more favorably viewed as Tsar by all parties, although Marie-Christine's background would not as Tsarina Consort.
 
"But, IMO, instead of fighting amongst themselves, Maria and other claimants should be trying to fight for the favor of their people.
The corruption and control in Russia is bad enough as it is and it's getting worse, if the Imperial Family cared enough about their country to want to be titled as it's representatives, then they should feel just as strongly about the welfare of their people.
They should be fighting to return to their country and work to gain the trust and support of their people (even if it doesn't seem possible at this time), by fighting to be elected into political office or at least join lobbyist groups to be able to make a difference for their people, then they would have something more important than the unearned titles they have now.
They would have the love and respect of their people for making a genuine and positive difference in their lives and wouldn't have to fight for empty titular recognition, but be granted their titles out of their people's respect and pride."

I agree that the fighting is useless, mostly because I don’t believe the monarchy will ever be reinstated. I noticed, though, that you mention the phrase “their people” quite a bit. I think this is inaccurate because the people of Russia today aren’t their people. I haven’t studied the present day romanovs in depth at all so sorry if I make a mistake but from what I understand, the present day romanovs have been living abroad in a bunch of places (and were born abroad as well). They weren’t raised in Russia so they are only Russian by ethnicity, not nationality. Take the guy Georgi who lives in Spain. He, like his mother, was born there making him second generation Spanish, not Russian. Of course he’s of Russian descent (like me) but I don’t believe that people like us (descendents) can call people living in today’s Russia “our people.” My people are Americans and his people are Spaniards. Or, you could say “our people” are those Russians who left before or during the revolution, those who haven’t been tainted by the Soviet ways. The people in modern Russia are the product of the soviet union and these Romanovs who are being born and raised abroad are obviously not. Does this make sense?
 
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Alice Vilghelmina said:
yes, they visited "motherland", tried to draw attention and to make people respect them, but....One visit about 6=7 years ago is nothing, cause Russians respect their own last royalties but royal descendants......many of them don't speak Russian and have a quarter of Russian blood in good case. They are interested in Russia only for the sake of a political benefit. no more.



well, the last Romanovs had almost no Russian blood seeing as to how each Romanov man married a foreigner. It seems like the German girls were most popular.
 
http://members.surfeu.fi/thaapanen/Articles/st01.html

The late Prince Vladimir Kirillovich of Russia had a significant claim to be head of the Imperial House. The main argument against him was that his fathers mother the Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna was not a member of the Russian Orthodox Church at the time of the Grand Duke Kirill's birth. Apart from various other conditions the heir to the throne of Russia must be the issue of Russian Orthodox parents. Furthermore, criticism has been often levelled whether justly or not at the Grand Duke Kirill with regard to his breaking the oath of allegiance to the Emperor Nicholas II in 1917 and his assumption of the imperial title in 1924 which was against the express wishes of the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna. Nonetheless genealogically speaking with the death of the Grand Duke Kirill his son Prince Vladimir Kirillovich was the senior male and as such head of the family. Since his death, however, his daughter's assertion that she is now head of the family is false and wholly unjustifiable. Neither she nor Prince Vladimir Kirillovich were entitled to the self appointed rank of Grand Duke nor is Prince Vladimir's widow.
The rules of succession to the throne and headship of the family were laid down and promulgated by the Emperor Paul I on the 6 April, 1796 (17 April, 1796). Succession was strictly by primogeniture, eldest male following eldest male and only in the event of the total extinction of the male line was a female permitted to succeed. This law known as the Pauline Law was reinforced by the Imperial Ukase issued by the Emperor Alexander III on 2 July, 1886 (14 July, 1886). This Ukase went on further to regulate the criteria pertaining to the rank of Grand Duke or Grand Duchess and the qualification of Imperial Highness. In order to avoid the Austrian example where all members of the Imperial House were designated Archdukes, in Russia only sons and daughters or grandsons and granddaughters (in the male line) of a reigning Emperor were permitted to the rank of Grand Duke or Grand Duchess and the qualification of Imperial Highness. Great grandchildren of a reigning Emperor, in the male line only, were Princes of Russia with the qualification of Highness. All other descendants of a reigning Emperor, in the male line only, were Princes with the qualification of Serene Highness. However, the eldest son of a great grandchild was permitted the qualification of Highness.
Under Clause 188 of the rules of the Imperial House of Russia pertaining to marriage; only marriages of equal rank were permitted. This rule was taken from the German ruling houses (ebenbuertig, standegemaess). Any member of the Imperial Family contracting a marriage with an individual no matter how noble but not of equal rank (i.e. not from one of the recognised sovereign or royal families) forfitted the right to remain part of the Imperial Family and any descendants or issue of such legal marriages enjoyed no rights to membership of the Imperial Family and no rights to the succession.
Given the increasing difficulty of enforcing this clause in an ever growing family, under the Emperor Nicholas II an Imperial Ukase no. 1489 dated 11 August, 1911 (24 August, 1911) was issued which modified clause 188 but only for Princes and Princesses of the Imperial House namely great grandchildren and onwards of a reigning Emperor. This modification allowed Princes and Princesses of the Imperial House to contract marriages with individuals of "good standing" but not necessarily of equal birth. The rule pertaining to Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses and their obligation to contract marriages with individuals of equal birth remained in force. This Ukase of 1911 was inacted in time for the Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia to marry Constantine Alexandrovich Prince Bagration-Mukhransky who was not of equal rank.
Following the murder of Emperor Nicholas II, his son (Czarevich Alexis) and his brother (Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich), the next in line was his first cousin the Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich. I have already shown above that there was some question about his elegibility. Furthermore, this was compounded by his marriage to a divorced first cousin (Princess Victoria Melita) again something not permitted by the Russian Orthodox Church. On his death in 1938 he was succeeded by his son Prince Vladimir Kirillovich who as a great grandson of a reigning Emperor was not entitled to the rank of Grand Duke. His assumption of that rank was not recognised by most members of the Imperial house and led to an increasing schism in the family.
In 1948 Prince Vladimir Kirillovich contracted a marriage with Leonida Kirby, divorced wife and widow of Sumner Moore Kirby. She was born Leonida Georgievna Princess Bagration-Mukhransky. It was claimed by Prince Vladimir Kirillovich that his wife was of equal rank as a descendent of the early Kings of Georgia. However, this claim is obviously incorrect and inconsistent. This is proven by the marriage of Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia to Prince Constantine Bagration-Mukhransky a cousin of Princess Leonida in 1911. If in 1911 the Bagration-Mukhransky family was not considered of equal rank why should have been such in 1948? Their claim to headship of the Royal House of Georgia which had anyway passed to the Emperor of Russia is based on the possible but not certain extinction of the House of Grouzinsky in 1931. Furthermore, the House of Grouszinsky itself was not recognized in Imperial Russia as being of equal rank to the Imperial Family. Therefore, Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's claim for his wife's equal rank is incorrect and rather more wishful thinking than fact. Indeed, if the Bagration-Mukhansky's claim to equal rank as descendants of the early Kings of Georgia is given credence this would also pertain to various wives of the later Princes of Russia such as the Galitzines who themselves are of royal descent. It must be obvious from the above that this is not the case.
Accordingly, Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's further claim that his daughter is his heir is not viable. Prince Vladimir Kirillovich being a great grandson of a ruling Emperor contracted a marriage with an individual of a good standing and his daughter Princess Maria Vladimirovna is accordingly a Princess of Russia but follows in the line of succession after all the Princes of the blood. Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's appointment of his son in law Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia as a Russian Grand Duke verges on the farcical and it is interesting to note that since Prince Franz Wilhelm and Princess Maria Vladimirovna's divorce, Prince Franz Wilhelm has reverted to his correct rank of Prince of Prussia. Their son Prince George of Prussia is a member of the Imperial House of Hohenzollern and certainly not a member of the Imperial House of Romanov.
In accordance with the laws of succession to the Imperial House of Russia the undisputed head of the family is His Highness Prince Nicholas Romanovich, son of the late Prince Roman Petrovich and Grandson of the Grand Duke Peter Nikolaievich. He is also chairman of the Romanov Family Association to whom all members of the Imperial Family of Russia, with the exception of Princess Maria Vladimirovna, belong.

this is actaully a pretty cool site. they show all the male decendents from the 4 sons.
 
Not her son, but...

Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, Head of the Imperial Family of Russia, Titular Empress and Autocrat of all the Russias...

Credit: Landov
664fe4bc.jpg



Taken sometime in February of 2006.

"MII"
 
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What an interesting thread, especially for a trained lawyer. Thank you for posting all this information.

I read it all carefully and followed the link to the statement of the former lawyer of Grand Duke Vladimir.

As I understood it, Grand Duke Vladimir was undisputed head of the family, as the marriage of his father and the birth of his older sisters had been acknowledged as dynast by the late Tsar Nicholas II, thus it stands to reason that if Vladimir had been born a year before when there still had been a court calendar with an official list of succession he would have been in it as his sisters were.

Not only in my opinion it is the privilege of the head of a Royal family to declare someone to be "ebenbuertig". It happened eg in Bavaria where the marriage of prince Luitpold ("Poldi") and common born princess Ursula was declared "ebenbuertig" (dynastic) after more then 20 years! Only because it had turned out that prince Poldi was to be next in line and they wanted his kids to become part of the succession. Or just see how souverain Dr. Otto von Habsburg-Lothringen manages his family and the claim of common-born daughters-in-law when it pleases him.

So for me there is no doubt about the right of Grand Duke Vladimir to declare his marriage dynast, to style his wife Grand Duchess and to amke his daughter into his heiress. There probably was no need in his understanding to decree it more formally than he did. After all, nobody decrees that "red is red" and "green is green" when this is obvious. It stands to reason as well that the head of the family was not a subject of the rules of his house but the source of it. See the old rule of succession of Sweden where the king was the only member of the Royal house who could marry without his own consent <grin>. Or Tsar peter the Great who made the former maid and commoner Katherina into his spouse and his heiress to boot. Their daughter Elisabeth of course was dynast!

Now you can say that Tsar Paul's law was later - but then it obviously was the privilege of the head of the Family (who then was the souverain ruler as well) to give rules at all - to change Tsar Peter I. habit. Thus of course Grand Duke Vladimir could do as he pleased.

As for the missing acception of other Royal houses. There is a political question involved and acceptance of Grand Duchess Maria could well mean political problems with the Russia of today. And to what avail? Politics are pragmatic....
 
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