Four years down the track; Is Mary OK now?

[princess olga]

I hear all you are saying, and again, all of you are right to a certain extent. I can't put my finger on it, but there is definitly something about Mary, which makes her get so much criticism. Mary fans, hold on! I think she is doing a fabulous job as Crown Princess and will be definitly a GR8 Queen, but, oh but, there is something about her manner which causes you to feel that she is ambitious in everything and she was very successful in getting whet she wanted! Part of my career (last 11 year)is in PR and I see up to a few dozen clients a day and I am very succesful in my field, which includes correctly evaluating clients, and I think I have a point!

Because you are in PR you know exactly how Mary steelly went out to land a royal like Fred? Aren't you revealing a bit more of yourself and your own aspirations here than revealing you know something about a woman you and I have never met?

I'll go ahead than and disagree with you here, to me, Mary seemed much LESS ambitious than Maxima and Letizia for example. Not to belittle any of these ladies, but it just cannot be denied that those two also knew exactly what they were doing as their princes fell head over heels for them, I think. As for Mary, it seems more of a, 'right place, right time, right guy' type of thing. She knew, after meeting Fred, that it was a long shot, he living a continent away, and it seems to me she won him over by kindof offering herself as more of a real friend, a voice of reason and support. Maybe she strategized that one out, that's possible. And likely. But we don't know that for certain, whether or not we deal with 11 clients every day or not.

 

[ricarda]

Judging by this excerpt, she definitely is a person who is skilled in using a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of substance! Or doesn't want to in public, which comes down to the same thing.

I disagree.
I think she was cautious but what she said was of substance and she didn't use much words to say it.
She made it quite clear that becoming and being a crownprincess is a process of learning and making experiences, passing tests.
And I actually liked it that Mary didn't appear as someone who has a ready answer to every question.
(I mean she didn't at all appear haughty) .

The person who more merits this question is her husband, Fred. He's recently been picked as one of the "young world leaders to watch" or something. Well, folks, I've watched this guy for years on the forum now, and....NOTHING tells me this is a guy who is the next Nelson Mandela, the next Bill Clinton, the next Willem Alexander even, who has been stepping up to do something about the water problems this planet is facing...Anyway, his own brother Joachim is more of a world leader these days than Fred.

I can't see why Frederik was picked as one of the "young world leaders to watch".
Because Frederik will be king one day, not a world leader, and not even the leader of Denmark (this is the prime minister).
Margrethe isn't a world leader too, nor is Joachim, nor any of the other current monarchs.
Royals may be important for their countries' indentities, but IMO they are not important for world politics.
In Europe they are even supposed to be unpolitical, mere representatives of their countries.
Therefore I find this comparison with politicians like Mandela and Clinton quite senseless.
Frederik is not supposed to be the next Nelson Mandela or Bill Clinton.

Willem-Alexander I find in no way more impressive than Frederik.
I think they both will make popular but not outstanding kings.

And about accomplishments/leadership in Denmark:
Frederik is very popular, obviously most Danes think he represents them well.
He supported Danish Red Cross with a TV ad and there was an enormous response.
So, that's that.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

. What's fred doing with his time besides sailing? His bios even don't even mention what he's occupying his time with CURRENTLY. Sure sure, we know about his military accomplishments, ifone can call it that. But ALL these princes have done most of those, so what's the big deal. Anyway, his own brother Joachim is more of a world leader these days than Fred.

So, is Mary ok? Definitely. But Fred? Well, hopefully, with time.

The thing is that to be a successful skipper in sailing regattas you have to have very good leadership skills. So he probably has these skills and on having them uses them. Most of his work happens behind closed doors anyway but he is already involved in Danish politics and does charity work, so I guess the people who called him a world leader had an idea why he could be named as one.

 

[Larzen]

The thing is that to be a successful skipper in sailing regattas you have to have very good leadership skills. So he probably has these skills and on having them uses them. Most of his work happens behind closed doors anyway but he is already involved in Danish politics and does charity work, so I guess the people who called him a world leader had an idea why he could be named as one.

Well his latest results Successful is open for interpetation
http://www.premiere-racing.com/07_KW_Results/kw07_div1_series.htm

IMO the young world leader lists is just Most of the royals on this list hardly warrants any leading position in the world at this moment. Just having an UN envoy position dont make one a "leading" person IMO

 

[juliana]

Well his latest results Successful is open for interpetation
http://www.premiere-racing.com/07_KW_Results/kw07_div1_series.htm

IMO the young world leader lists is just Most of the royals on this list hardly warrants any leading position in the world at this moment. Just having an UN envoy position dont make one a "leading" person IMO

Always the most sensible posts on all forums Larzen.

 

[Currier]

I don't think we've touched on this angle:CPMary's benefit to Demark, financially. A report out this week says she is worth 66 billion as she is able to draw interest to the projects she supports. I can attest to her ability to attract tourism. I vacationed in Copenhagen in 2005; Tasmania in 2006 and am looking for a comprehensive tour of Denmark now.

 

[princess olga]

The thing is that to be a successful skipper in sailing regattas you have to have very good leadership skills.

That is a very good point. Question remains though, where does he use them these days? Big question mark. If he uses them somewhere, why wouldn't they say so, why wouldn't we know?

So he probably has these skills and on having them uses them. Most of his work happens behind closed doors anyway but he is already involved in Danish politics and does charity work,

Hope that's the case, but what on the planet is he doing behind closed doors in politics? Licking envelopes? Bizz dev? What?

His good point, here, that I should emphasize, is perhaps the same as his weakness: the fact he is laid back, or seemingly so. I'm thinking actually: Could that be a reaction of sorts to his very intimidating, to me at least, parents? His parents seem very class aware somehow, they just seem to ooze that. Perhaps this is why Fred is doing things differently. Mary on the other hand, can seem equally intimidating but then again, perhaps this is not so bad considering her high role.

On topic again, I think we can all agree on Mary being 'ok now', as the title of this thread states. I for one don't think anyone could really argue she's not into the royal groove so to speak.

The thing she could improve on perhaps is be a bit more of a visionary like Maxima is on things like Microcredit. Anyone reading the speeches of Maxima would realize she is intelectually very very strong, with a point of view and vision all her own. I'm sure Mary could one day do as well as Maxima on that front.

 

[princess olga]

IMO the young world leader lists is just Most of the royals on this list hardly warrants any leading position in the world at this moment. Just having an UN envoy position dont make one a "leading" person IMO

Couldn't agree more indeed. The UN is just making itself look ridiculous with this list. I'm thinking that the young royals on the list maybe don't even want to be on it!

 

[billie-jo]

i think mary as none well in her new country.
billie-jo

 

[lisamaria]

The thing she could improve on perhaps is be a bit more of a visionary like Maxima is on things like Microcredit. Anyone reading the speeches of Maxima would realize she is intelectually very very strong, with a point of view and vision all her own. I'm sure Mary could one day do as well as Maxima on that front.

Based on the comments by the devotees, one just might think Maxima invented the credit She didn't actually, she merely promotes a slightly controversial scheme invented by others and promoted by others before her, like Hilary Clinton.

According to the Danish image consultant Simon Anholt, Mary is worth 66 billion DKK (Danish crowns) for her country, as far as the "goodwill" value of her name is considered; she generates money with her every appearance, to all the organisations she associates herself with, to the designers whose clothes she wear and to all the small businesses that benefit from the tourism she has brought. In that sense, Mary's role and function appears to me as very similar to that of princess Victoria of Sweden. She too promotes the interest of her own country and its economics. From purely nationalist point of view, one might think that the most important function of royals.

 

[donnaK]

Maxima has in-depth knowledge in microcredit, she was good enough to hold a seminar, in my opinion she did a bit more than some of the other royal UN ambassadors.
I can't believe people even took the report of Simon Anholt seriously. He must have included the revenues of Prada or Hugo Boss . Besides a few royal watchers, the only countries who know about Mary are Denmark and Australia, combined about 25 mil population. To say Mary making Denmark famous around the world is quite rubbish.

 

[princess olga]

Based on the comments by the devotees, one just might think Maxima invented the credit She didn't actually, she merely promotes a slightly controversial scheme invented by others and promoted by others before her, like Hilary Clinton.

I'm not a Maxima devotee by any means. You are right that the way my quote above currently reads, one could draw the conclusion that I think Maxima invented the Microcredit initiative, which of course she didn't. And I agree about the controversy regarding the microcredit, which is that the interest percentages charged are extraordinarily high. Supporters though say that this is necessary to entice banks to touch those 'high risk customers', i.e. poor folks, with a ten foot pole.

Anyway, back on topic, what I meant was this:
Maxima is of course a marketing 'tool' if you will in this microcredit effort, but she has really plunged into the topic and made it her own. As evidenced by for example many interviews she has granted on the topic - these interviews underline the fact this is someone suited to the topic and someone who can think on her butt, as we say, or translated, do well when it comes down to having to offer spontaneous, ad hoc answers to media questions.

But across the board, i.e. in unrelated topics, Maxima is equally prepared and knowledgable, and this is an area where in my view, Mary could step up a notch.

Again, I'm a 'devotee' of neither lady. For me to become that, Mary would have to do better in this area for example, and lose her nose-up-in-the-air approach.
And Maxima would have to put in more hours for me to admire her. She's a bit too vacation-hungry still to my taste.

 

[princess olga]

Maxima has in-depth knowledge in microcredit, she was good enough to hold a seminar, in my opinion she did a bit more than some of the other royal UN ambassadors.
I can't believe people even took the report of Simon Anholt seriously. He must have included the revenues of Prada or Hugo Boss . Besides a few royal watchers, the only countries who know about Mary are Denmark and Australia, combined about 25 mil population. To say Mary making Denmark famous around the world is quite rubbish.

Indeed, despite these princesses' vast Prada budgets, despite the stylists, PR minions and well-balanced diets fixed by in-house chefs, the vast majority of the world doesn't have an inkling who any of the current crop of crown princesses are.

 

[lilytornado]

Indeed, despite these princesses' vast Prada budgets, despite the stylists, PR minions and well-balanced diets fixed by in-house chefs, the vast majority of the world doesn't have an inkling who any of the current crop of crown princesses are.

Yeah, but that´s true about all the other celebrities, too. Almost no one is known by the vast majority of the world. Still, I might not know some people who in fact influence my life very much, more than some (actually pretty unimportant) celebrities I know. I think this was about importance and not awareness level?
I still might not agree about the choices, but i am not an expert in that.

 

[Madame Royale]

Besides a few royal watchers, the only countries who know about Mary are Denmark and Australia, combined about 25 mil population.

More like 30 mil

However, I have noticed that in the UK there seems to be a growing interest in Mary..even if only slight atm..and who knows, it may stay this way and it probably shall

 

[ysbel]

Again, I'm a 'devotee' of neither lady. For me to become that, Mary would have to do better in this area for example, and lose her nose-up-in-the-air approach.

I like the nose-up-in-the-air approach for princesses. As to the education, if its something Mary enjoys and does well, it would be lovely, but as a lover of learning and books and knowledgeable discussion, nothing irritates me more than someone getting involved in learned pursuits just because they're trying to get a more serious, responsible image. If you're going to take education seriously, get involved and put some passion behind it but if not, its best to do something that fills your passion.

Not everyone has to be super-learned.

 

[sugar]

Oh we down here in New Zealand know Mary too! After all, she is a down under, but we here in New Zealand do not count, only 4 mil people! But if you count the sheep, we are quite significant! Outnumbering the Aussies.

Sorry.....

I have not posted much but visit regularly. Thanks for the great forum here....


sugar in NZ

 

[Madame Royale]

Oh we down here in New Zealand know Mary too! After all, she is a down under, but we here in New Zealand do not count, only 4 mil people! But if you count the sheep, we are quite significant! Outnumbering the Aussies.

Sorry.....

I have not posted much but visit regularly. Thanks for the great forum here....


sugar in NZ

Absolutely..sorry I did not mention you all, our neighbours

 

[ricarda]

Well, I cannot speak for the world but Mary is quite well known in Scandinavia and Germany, which makes another ~ 100 mio. population.
Of course not everyone knows her or is interested in her
but I have never read and seen so many reports in Germany about Denmark and the DRF than since her marriage with Frederik.
So I would actually agree that she has a great market/promotion value, like Se&Hor claims.

But across the board, i.e. in unrelated topics, Maxima is equally prepared and knowledgable, and this is an area where in my view, Mary could step up a notch.

And you know of course exactly how prepared and knowledgeable Mary is in the areas she has chosen to support?

Maxima sure is an intelligent and knowledgeable woman
and since she comes from the financial sector she knows what she is talking about
but "she made this topic her own"???, "vision"???
I think you are overestimating her accomplishments with microcredit.
(And I personally am very critical towards this subject and would much prefer to see her more engaged with different subjects.)

 

[donnaK]

Well, I cannot speak for the world but Mary is quite well known in Scandinavia and Germany, which makes another ~ 100 mio. population.

Average German knows nothing about Mary except for royal watchers (like I said before). I showed her pictures also other CPsses pictures to some of my German colleagues, except for Camilla, nobody recognized the rest of the CPsses. They can all walk down the streets of Berlin, nobody would care.

 

[Mandy]

Average German knows nothing about Mary except for royal watchers (like I said before). I showed her pictures also other CPsses pictures to some of my German colleagues, except for Camilla, nobody recognized the rest of the CPsses. They can all walk down the streets of Berlin, nobody would care.

Why am I not surprise that you are bringing in the average German to bolster your point of view; you're always trying to discredit Mary. At least, I won't be so bold as to call your theory, "rubbish" without first investigating it.

 

[MargreteI]

Average German knows nothing about Mary except for royal watchers (like I said before). I showed her pictures also other CPsses pictures to some of my German colleagues, except for Camilla, nobody recognized the rest of the CPsses. They can all walk down the streets of Berlin, nobody would care.

I work for a German Company and travel frequently to Germany and it is simply not true. I doubt thiese socalled German colleges of yours even exist. Victoria of Sweden and Mary of Denmark are mandatory stuff in German magazines. Average Germans can not avoid knowing who Victoria and Mary are and look like. Even if they do not care about them. They are famous in Germany. Simple as that.

In fact those German magazines are infamous for their coverage of Victoria and Mary, which often consist of downright lies. Simple reason. Those lies sell.

Sorry ... but ehmm .... you have no clue about average Germans.

 

[donnaK]

I work for a German Company and travel frequently to Germany and it is simply not true. I doubt thiese socalled German colleges of yours even exist. Victoria of Sweden and Mary of Denmark are mandatory stuff in German magazines. Average Germans can not avoid knowing who Victoria and Mary are and look like. Even if they do not care about them. They are famous in Germany. Simple as that.

In fact those German magazines are infamous for their coverage of Victoria and Mary, which often consist of downright lies. Simple reason. Those lies sell.

Sorry ... but ehmm .... you have no clue about average Germans.

Excuse me !! You need to stop making those assumptions on others. As I know, the tabloid magazines are not for everyone. Most of my colleagues (esp male) simply don't read those tabloids. If you want to talk about German tabloids, then Mette Marit has been the front runner.

 

[Madame Royale]

I work for a German Company and travel frequently to Germany and it is simply not true. I doubt thiese socalled German colleges of yours even exist. Victoria of Sweden and Mary of Denmark are mandatory stuff in German magazines. Average Germans can not avoid knowing who Victoria and Mary are and look like. Even if they do not care about them. They are famous in Germany. Simple as that.

In fact those German magazines are infamous for their coverage of Victoria and Mary, which often consist of downright lies. Simple reason. Those lies sell.

I have good friends in Bamberg and Hamburg and they all know who Mary is. If anything, the German tabloids have taken quite the interest (for better or worse) in Mary. Perhaps some forget the reception Mary and Frederik received when they visited Berlin in 2004. To my knowledge a great number of average Germans came out to greet them. Also in 2006 on their visit to Schleswig-Holstein.

 

[lilytornado]

A lot of people in Germany don´t know them, but a lot of do. There are a lot of non-frequent royal watchers, like my mom, they see the weddings and are interested if there is a new child, but not a lot more.
And then there is the old-lady fanclub, that unfortunately reads all those bad magazines. You won't find find them on the internet (they don´t use computers). A lot of times I hear (mostly women) talking about For example Mary, but they believe those magazines, and I have to say, no, it is not true, Haakon and Mette don´t want to get divorced, no Mary didn´t have a misscarriage!etc
Just my observations of course, I am german and lived in Germany until last August and so does my family.

 

[MargreteI]

Excuse me !! You need to stop making those assumptions on others. As I know, the tabloid magazines are not for everyone. Most of my colleagues (esp male) simply don't read those tabloids. If you want to talk about German tabloids, then Mette Marit has been the front runner.

Oh really ?

Königen Elizabeth (II) - 54.000 (37.000) google hits (been around for ages)
Kronprinzessin Victoria - 30.000 google hits (been around for a long time)
Kronprizessin Mary - 15.500 google hits (been around for just a few years)
Kronprinzessin Letizia - 2.690 google hits (been aroudn for just a few years)
Kronprinzessin Maxima - 1.320 google hits (been around for a few years)
Kronprinzessin Mette-Marit 932 google hit (been around for a few years)

For the secound time. You have got no clue. Ok, so stop pretending.

 

[donnaK]

Oh really ?

Königen Elizabeth (II) - 54.000 (37.000) google hits (been around for ages)
Kronprinzessin Victoria - 30.000 google hits (been around for a long time)
Kronprizessin Mary - 15.500 google hits (been around for just a few years)
Kronprinzessin Letizia - 2.690 google hits (been aroudn for just a few years)
Kronprinzessin Maxima - 1.320 google hits (been around for a few years)
Kronprinzessin Mette-Marit 932 google hit (been around for a few years)

For the secound time. You have got no clue. Ok, so stop pretending.

Those are not the absolute number. Lots of people might just google 'Mette-Marit' or 'Letizia' , like I usually do, instead of adding Kronprinzessin in the front.
I have read everywhere that Mette-Marit has been the front runner on the German tabloids. When she visited Germany, the old article even mentioned that the sale of the magazines usually jumped when she was on the cover.
Perhaps you are the one without much clue, or just being extremely biased.

 

[Mandy]

I think it would be better if we all speak for ourselves individually instead of bringing in our good friends and families into the mix to prove our viewpoint. However if you have statistics or news items to prove your case, by all means let's see them along with a link. Let's have fun with this thread!

Happy posting!

Mandy

 

[donnaK]

Why am I not surprise that you are bringing in the average German to bolster your point of view; you're always trying to discredit Mary. At least, I won't be so bold as to call your theory, "rubbish" without first investigating it.

100 mil population obviously has to include the average German . Up to this point, I only had two posts in this thread, so your accusation is baseless.

 

[MargreteI]

Those are not the absolute number. Lots of people might just google 'Mette-Marit' or 'Letizia' , like I usually do, instead of adding Kronprinzessin in the front.
I have read everywhere that Mette-Marit has been the front runner on the German tabloids. When she visited Germany, the old article even mentioned that the sale of the magazines usually jumped when she was on the cover.
Perhaps you are the one without much clue, or just being extremely biased.

Ok, so I can do without the title and just add the country and search only in german language. Does not change anything. Victoria and Mary still on top and Mette-Marit in the bottum.

What now ?

Are you going to say that mentioning the very country in which they are princesses distort the result ??

Elizabeth Grossbritannien - google hits 1.160.000
Mary Dänemark - google hits 463.000
Victoria Sweden - google hits 291.000
Maxima Niederland - google hits 70.000
Letizia Spanien - google hits 37.400
Mette-Marit Norwegen - google hits 10.500

I am not biased. I just happen to know quite a bit about Germany, as well as speak the language, and I know what you write is not true. Remember. You started out saying that no one would recognize any of them, and that they could stroll on the street of Berlin unrecognized. No one would care.

I just happen to know, you do not know what you are alking about in this matter.