Crown Princess Victoria & Daniel Westling: Relationship Discussion (2002-2007)

[Lena]

Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?

True. I would even say, it would damage the Monarchy more to abdicate than to marry Mr. Westling. These days the ppl all have eaten the story of romance, love and happiness. We aren´t anymore in the times of Wallis Simpson...or in the times of Swedish princes losing their titles, because they married commoners. If Victoria would abdicate there would be some kind of "poor Victoria, what cruel system do we have, not allowing heirs to marry, who they want" spirit...it would create the image of the monarchy being something, you can choose, if you are in the mood for it. Victoria self has said, that she never would abdicate, if the Swedish ppl wouldn´t want her to do that. She would seem like a liar and it would fall back on the Monarchy.
I´m sure Daniel will have a tough time ahead. Many Swedes, who seem to accept him now, don´t seem to expect, that they marry for real (and maybe they indeed wouldn´t). But as the examples of the controversial crown princesses have shown, in the end, he would be accepted (maybe not loved, but accepted and respected)

 

[oskana]

Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?

agreed. dont understand the fuss nowadays. especially after everything we have seen.

 

[Hereditary Mapmaker]

Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?

I don't want to create an argument or suggest certain beliefs to other posters, but I wonder if this isn't based more in a sexist double-standard. It sounds as the original poster was suggesting that Vic should "do the right thing" by abdicating and choosing a private, submissive role only as a wife and mother. I also get the feeling that it was suggested that the king and queen were letting time "go longer and longer" until Vic came to her senses.

I completely agree with you, Smilla. It really is a shame that for all the evils you list about the current crown princesses, they are, for the most part, respected and embraced by their citizens and members of this forum. But when it comes to Daniel, there seems to be a constant undercurrent of criticism. Is it because we think she can, and therefore should, do better? Are we really that scared about his effect on the monarchy? If he was __________ (fill in the blank - taller, more successful, more educated, spoke other languages, etc.) but "had a past" which included anything from drug use, a child, a criminal record, would we overlook those things because of what we call positive attributes? Do we question his love for her or hers for him? It's not like she would be the first monarch to divorce if it didn't work out.

I know I'm throwing a lot out there, but I really am curious about this. I'm not even sure how I personally feel about the situation. Victoria seems to be such a beautiful genuine person and I believe that she will be a wonderful queen because her people love her. In regards to her relationship/private life, however, I sense a lack of fulfillment/unhappiness. I don't know if that has anything to do with Daniel. My feeling is that, no matter what, I would want Victoria to be happy.

Any other thoughts?

Mapper

 

[Smilla]

I don't want to create an argument or suggest certain beliefs to other posters, but I wonder if this isn't based more in a sexist double-standard. It sounds as the original poster was suggesting that Vic should "do the right thing" by abdicating and choosing a private, submissive role only as a wife and mother. I also get the feeling that it was suggested that the king and queen were letting time "go longer and longer" until Vic came to her senses.
Mapper

I so agree with everything you say here (I had to shorten the quote, though).
I have also the impression that Victoria and Daniel W. somehow don't "click". She seems to me so open and approachable, but still very dignified; maybe what creates tension for them both is that she is obviously doing well in all that limelight and it's hard for him to cope with that role (and the expectations of having to be "good enough for her"). Well, of course it's all speculation - I wish her all the luck, and all the love she's meant to have, whether with Daniel W or anybody else; but I definitely defend her right to choose a a partner for herself, whether Daniel W or anybody else.

 

[grevinnan]

Two characteristics that have always been attributed to CP Victoria are; dutiful and determined. I don't believe she would ever consider abdicating for any reason other than at the request of the Swedish people if it would save the monarchy or upon its dissolution. She must also have seen characteristics in Daniel that made her go through with what must have been very difficult earlier years with him. The royal couple must have been very questioning about the relationship and the press have been less than favorable. She must have seen a man that would be a worthy consort for her as the future queen and a man she wanted to have as father for her children and to be her husband. Victoria has through her friend and relatives probably met most of Europe's royal and aristocratic young men yet she did not pursue any of them. Any current crown prince is of course out of the question as she could not as the crown princess marry a regent from another country. Victoria has made up her mind and her sense of duty would not allow for the future consort to not be fully worthy of the role.

 

[Gloriana]

Originally Posted by Smilla
MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime

Videla regime. Pinochet was in Chile.

 

[Smilla]

Videla regime. Pinochet was in Chile.

Ooops...sorry.

 

[violante]

Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?

Since a monarchy is a very oldfashioned institution, crownprinces seem to be able to take anyone nowadays, but it is still the same dynasty. Victoria is a wonderful person,intelligent and stubborn, so we will now have the Westling dynasty from Ockelbo. Her education is also so far above Daniel´s.

 

[Lena]

Since a monarchy is a very oldfashioned institution, crownprinces seem to be able to take anyone nowadays, but it is still the same dynasty. Victoria is a wonderful person,intelligent and stubborn, so we will now have the Westling dynasty from Ockelbo. Her education is also so far above Daniel´s.

I think Daniel was born in Almby...so wouldn´t it be the "Westling dynasty from Almby"?
I think it´s your good right to be disappointed. We, from the "outside", have it easy to say "Well, princess X and princess Y aren´t any better or even worse"...but I guess for a monarchist, who has a certain picture of the monarchy in the mind, it´s not much comfort to see, that the neighbours have the same "problem". Besides Victoria is a crown princess, who nearly seems, as if she would have been "casted" for the job. She is extremely popular already now (what IMO Haakon wasn´t before Mette Marit. He surely was liked and everything, but I think he really started to blossom in his marriage) and Daniel obviously has a hard time to adjust...and IMO one also has to see this. It´s not just the question, if the person is accepted by the ppl, but also if the person self can accept the role.
So if she would marry him, "mourn" a little for the prince/duke/count, she never married ...and then you can maybe comfort yourself with the fact, that a "prince consort" usually doesn´t play an important role. And maybe Daniel would win your heart in his role as father. I think, he wouldn´t be bad in it...

 

[Gita]

I say let Crown Princess Victoria marry who she wants for love alone. Providing her choice does not destroy the monarchy or cause some kind of terrible harm to herself or the Swedish people. Which she would not do in any case. She is a human being like the rest of us, would you like to be forced into marriage with someone you didn't love? Let her choose and be happy, she has the same rights as everybody else.

So what if Daniel Westling is not University educated and he is from a normal working class background?

 

[violante]

I say let Crown Princess Victoria marry who she wants for love alone. Providing her choice does not destroy the monarchy or cause some kind of terrible harm to herself or the Swedish people. Which she would not do in any case. She is a human being like the rest of us, would you like to be forced into marriage with someone you didn't love? Let her choose and be happy, she has the same rights as everybody else.

So what if Daniel Westling is not University educated and he is from a normal working class background?

In the long run people with the same background have the best odds to be happy. I hope Daniel is smart enough to think, before,about what his life will be like in the shadow of his wife.

 

[The O.C. Fanatic]

Is Victoria with Westling or no?

 

[avrilo]

Is Victoria with Westling or no?

As far as it is not confirmed by her or the royal court or some reliable source, I would say it is only a rumor, and as rumor should be treated

 

[Smilla]

Since a monarchy is a very oldfashioned institution, crownprinces seem to be able to take anyone nowadays, but it is still the same dynasty. Victoria is a wonderful person,intelligent and stubborn, so we will now have the Westling dynasty from Ockelbo. Her education is also so far above Daniel´s.

True, and I also agree that people with similar backgrounds are more likely to be happy together; the question is whether a) it's possibly rather hard for Victoria to find somebody from the same background who she likes enough to marry, and who likes her back - they're rarer than middle-class! and b) whether they don't have other things in common that might mean more to them than background.
NB: About the Westling dynasty: just think of it from a matrilineal perspective: it's the mother's line of ancestry that counts.

 

[violante]

True, and I also agree that people with similar backgrounds are more likely to be happy together; the question is whether a) it's possibly rather hard for Victoria to find somebody from the same background who she likes enough to marry, and who likes her back - they're rarer than middle-class! and b) whether they don't have other things in common that might mean more to them than background.
NB: About the Westling dynasty: just think of it from a matrilineal perspective: it's the mother's line of ancestry that counts.

Yes,personally I agree with you, it should be seen from a matrilineal perspective, because you can always be sure about whom the mother is, but not so sure about the father ( you can always hide facts there).
But as I said before this is an oldfashioned institution and things are as they are..... I love this discussion!

 

[Lena]

Hm, I wonder, if it really would be "the Westling dynasty". The idea is so weird. I´ve no doubt, that Daniel (or any other commoner...these days we discuss it, as if there would already a bling bling ring on her right ring finger) would get "royaled up". He surely would become prince, or at least duke, maybe even both (Prins Olof Daniel, Hertig av Västergötland) But that their children would bear the surname "Westling" and not just their children, but also their grandchildren (and male grandchildren would keep it) is simply a strange thought. Well, in some ways it´s also like going back to the origin/roots...with the nordic Viking kings...apart from french or german imports. And at least Daniel´s surname isn´t "Svensson", so that more than 100.000 Swedes would share the name with the "Svensson dynasty"

 

[Smilla]

I don't know about Sweden, but in Austria you can choose either the woman's name or the man's name when they get married. The same goes for the children. Is that possible in Sweden that the children take the mother's name?
That would solve some of our (hypothetical) problems; I'm sure Victoria doesn't worry as much as we do...

 

[Lena]

I don't know about Sweden, but in Austria you can choose either the woman's name or the man's name when they get married. The same goes for the children. Is that possible in Sweden that the children take the mother's name?
That would solve some of our (hypothetical) problems; I'm sure Victoria doesn't worry as much as we do...

As I get it in Sweden it´s just the same as in our wonderful little Austria. E.g. Daniel´s sister has a double name "Westling Blom". Maybe they would do the same..."Westling Bernadotte" or "Bernadotte Westling" I guess you are indeed right, that she isn´t spending half as many thoughts on the matter as we do And as she doesn´t use it often her actual surname probably doesn´t mean much to her. As I remember it even on her report cards from schools one could read "Kronprinsessan Victoria" and not "Victoria Bernadotte"

 

[Smilla]

As I get it in Sweden it´s just the same as in our wonderful little Austria. E.g. Daniel´s sister has a double name "Westling Blom". Maybe they would do the same..."Westling Bernadotte" or "Bernadotte Westling" I guess you are indeed right, that she isn´t spending half as many thoughts on the matter as we do And as she doesn´t use it often her actual surname probably doesn´t mean much to her. As I remember it even on her report cards from schools one could read "Kronprinsessan Victoria" and not "Victoria Bernadotte"

Must be so weird having that name on your report card. That puts a lot of pressure on you to perform well; or would you like to have that grandiose name and then lots of bad marks?
Anyway, that was wildly off topic!
May she find true happiness, with whosoever

 

[Gita]

Who says that Daniel would not mind being in his wife's shadow? To me I don't think he would mind at all, as he appears to be rather shy.

 

[Smilla]

Who says that Daniel would not mind being in his wife's shadow? To me I don't think he would mind at all, as he appears to be rather shy.

Maybe it's being in the limelight that he dreads - much more than being in her shadow. I can't think what's worse.

 

[towzer12]

I am confused. Is Victoria still going with Daniel?

 

[Smilla]

I am confused. Is Victoria still going with Daniel?

Nobody knows. According to some reports, they've split up. On the other hand, they went to a wedding together and looked happy. So...maybe somebody else has more accurate information, but that's what I've heard.

 

[Gita]

If they had just split up I doubt they would have gone to a wedding together. Normally there are engagment romours but since they
obviously won't be getting engaged in the near future then the press will have to come up with something else.

 

[HRH Kerry]

Has anyone realized that Daniel is referred to as CP Victoria's common-law spouse on Wikipedia's web site? Take a look under her picture beside consort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria,_Crown_Princess_of_Sweden

 

[grevinnan]

Common-law spouse is the same as live-in boyfriend. Common Law just means not married.

 

[robby86]

If you click on where it says common-law it will take you to the page where it explains it all.

 

[kaffir]

Wikipedia is not any kind of source--anyone can post there. Common law means an actual spouse, not just boyfriend. If the wikipedia post is wrong, let them know; eventually it will be removed.

 

[Princess Robijn]

Has anyone realized that Daniel is referred to as CP Victoria's common-law spouse on Wikipedia's web site? Take a look under her picture beside consort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria%2C_Crown_Princess_of_Sweden

I changed it into boyfriend

 

[HRH Kerry]

I changed it into boyfriend

Thanks Princess!

I've never debated the meaning of common-law spouse in this thread as others have so chose to "educate" me on. Just wanted to let folks know what was out there. With that being said, I now have a Wiki "account" so that might add a little to this world.