"Courtiers, The Hidden Power Behind The Crown" by Valentine Low (2022)

[MARG]

I take it then that readers of this book will come away with the impression that the courtiers who formulated the arrangement by which the Sussexes left the RF were 100% correct in all their arrangements and the Sussexes were 100% in the wrong, with no shades of grey, no flexibility shown by either side, in spite of Low’s assertions about at least one or two of the courtiers’ methods.

Reading that Courtiers were actively involved in manipulating the Sussexes is hardly news, however, the information shows that they were manipulating the actual working members of the royal family. It is not their job to prevent communication between members of the Royal Family and obfuscate or just not pass on the message.

The idea was first mooted(by the late Diana) and dismissed by the BRF that the Courtiers were interfering in not just the business of state but in family life itself seems to have been validated. All the while they were passing on both verbal and formal press releases. Worse, they also routinely participated in passing information on the qt to their journo of choice, all of which proves that the Courtiers (or little grey men) were habitually and routinely manipulating the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William. This is just plain wrong on so many levels.

We have no reason to suspect that these trusted aides will cease this behaviour during the reign of King Charles III as it allows them to "influence" the King and his Heir and in effect strive to be the power behind the throne. Valentine Low's book merely proves what all the conspiracy theorists thought and consequently that it is way past time to clean house at the palaces.

I don't know about the government but I think the people will not be content to think that what is coming out of the BRF is the carefully crafted words and opinions of nameless, faceless, little grey men and women, rather than their King or the Prince of Wales.

 

[HRHHermione]

Reading that Courtiers were actively involved in manipulating the Sussexes is hardly news, however, the information shows that they were manipulating the actual working members of the royal family. It is not their job to prevent communication between members of the Royal Family and obfuscate or just not pass on the message.



The idea was first mooted(by the late Diana) and dismissed by the BRF that the Courtiers were interfering in not just the business of state but in family life itself seems to have been validated. All the while they were passing on both verbal and formal press releases. Worse, they also routinely participated in passing information on the qt to their journo of choice, all of which proves that the Courtiers (or little grey men) were habitually and routinely manipulating the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William. This is just plain wrong on so many levels.



We have no reason to suspect that these trusted aides will cease this behaviour during the reign of King Charles III as it allows them to "influence" the King and his Heir and in effect strive to be the power behind the throne. Valentine Low's book merely proves what all the conspiracy theorists thought and consequently that it is way past time to clean house at the palaces.



I don't know about the government but I think the people will not be content to think that what is coming out of the BRF is the carefully crafted words and opinions of nameless, faceless, little grey men and women, rather than their King or the Prince of Wales.

I’m genuinely curious what parts of the extracts made you come away with this as a hypothesis about what happened. I didn’t see anything in the three excerpts that indicated the staff of the royal family were inappropriately interfering in family life.

 

[Mbruno]

Reading that Courtiers were actively involved in manipulating the Sussexes is hardly news, however, the information shows that they were manipulating the actual working members of the royal family. It is not their job to prevent communication between members of the Royal Family and obfuscate or just not pass on the message.

The idea was first mooted(by the late Diana) and dismissed by the BRF that the Courtiers were interfering in not just the business of state but in family life itself seems to have been validated. All the while they were passing on both verbal and formal press releases. Worse, they also routinely participated in passing information on the qt to their journo of choice, all of which proves that the Courtiers (or little grey men) were habitually and routinely manipulating the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William. This is just plain wrong on so many levels.

We have no reason to suspect that these trusted aides will cease this behaviour during the reign of King Charles III as it allows them to "influence" the King and his Heir and in effect strive to be the power behind the throne. Valentine Low's book merely proves what all the conspiracy theorists thought and consequently that it is way past time to clean house at the palaces.

I don't know about the government but I think the people will not be content to think that what is coming out of the BRF is the carefully crafted words and opinions of nameless, faceless, little grey men and women, rather than their King or the Prince of Wales.

It is not a matter of "little gray men", but the sitcom "Yes, Minister" comes to mind. In the same way that senior civil servants are an invisible force behind the government (even though the elected ministers are in charge), I do believe that senior courtiers are an invisible force behind the Palace ( even though the monarch is in charge). That does not belittle the Prime Minister or the King, but I think it is a feature of the British system and how both the government and the Royal Household (two separate institutions) are run in the UK.

 

[MARG]

The Power Behind the Throne?

Well, apart from the title of this book which states quite clearly who Valentine Low believes is actually running the monarchy. I would also like to point out that if it were only the Royal Household the little grey men were running they would not be interfering in the Royal Family itself as is clearly stated lest the book became a dud.

 

[Prinsara]

There's a difference between being a "hidden power" and being the only power.

The excerpts also explicitly state private secretaries are there to handle the royal's professional life, "despite the job title".

There's been talk in print elsewhere of staff members being very involved in personal lives, like Burrell, Fawcett, Tallon for the QM, etc. But I don't think any book has posited that staff members were involved in interpersonal royal dynamics or conflicts. At most, they're mouthpieces for the royal employing them.

 

[HRHHermione]

Well, apart from the title of this book which states quite clearly who Valentine Low believes is actually running the monarchy. I would also like to point out that if it were only the Royal Household the little grey men were running they would not be interfering in the Royal Family itself as is clearly stated lest the book became a dud.

I think that’s something you are projecting that isn’t in the stated excerpts. Focusing on the experiences of staff and those who do the day to day work isn’t saying they overrule members of the family or have the authority to do so. I think actually one of the excerpts takes exception to Diana and Fergie’s take and specifically tries to refute the idea that there are “little grey men” in charge when in fact, many are very experience and dynamic executives with experience from the political and business sectors. That’s a big part of the point.

Meghan wasn’t fighting with “little grey men,” more comms professionals from a range of backgrounds and cultures.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Reading that Courtiers were actively involved in manipulating the Sussexes is hardly news, however, the information shows that they were manipulating the actual working members of the royal family. It is not their job to prevent communication between members of the Royal Family and obfuscate or just not pass on the message.

The idea was first mooted(by the late Diana) and dismissed by the BRF that the Courtiers were interfering in not just the business of state but in family life itself seems to have been validated. All the while they were passing on both verbal and formal press releases. Worse, they also routinely participated in passing information on the qt to their journo of choice, all of which proves that the Courtiers (or little grey men) were habitually and routinely manipulating the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William. This is just plain wrong on so many levels.

We have no reason to suspect that these trusted aides will cease this behaviour during the reign of King Charles III as it allows them to "influence" the King and his Heir and in effect strive to be the power behind the throne. Valentine Low's book merely proves what all the conspiracy theorists thought and consequently that it is way past time to clean house at the palaces.

I don't know about the government but I think the people will not be content to think that what is coming out of the BRF is the carefully crafted words and opinions of nameless, faceless, little grey men and women, rather than their King or the Prince of Wales.

Courtiers are there are to help out and mediate and sometimes prevent unnecessary quarrels and discussions. The BRF aren’t being controlled or manipulated by them and I don’t know why you want to think this but to each their own. Of course the courtiers are problematic but they have a useful job and position at court. The extracts for now have only addressed professional staff, not the “grey men”. The courtiers aren’t “yes men” or buddy buddies, they are there to give advice, correct members where they go wrong, tell them the “hard stuff” etc. The Queen, Charles and William have their own thoughts and minds, courtiers are simply there to assist and provide advice, knowledge, reminders among other things. The courtiers have made mistakes, but that does not excuse Harry and Meghan’s behavior towards staff and their way of trying to control the media.

 

[MARG]

Whilst the late Queen and Charles might make decisions, withholding family information, meddling or preventing family members from speaking with their parents or grandparents is not in their job description.

As per Valentine Low himself, having interviewed so many Courtiers, actual people as well as sources, he named the book "Courtiers: The Hidden Power Behind the Crown" and I doubt he was referring to Queen Mary, HMQM, or even Prince Philip. Read the blurb on Amazon, it's very interesting, starting with the heavy print introduction:

The gripping account of how the Royal family really operates from the man who has spent years studying them in his role as Royal correspondent for The Times. Valentine Low asks the important questions: who really runs the show and, as Charles III begins his reign, what will happen next?

and includes this little pearl.

Today, as ever, a vast team of people hidden from view steers the royal family's path between public duty and private life.

 

[Alison H]

Certainly the courtiers play a role, as the Civil Service does, but the third extract makes it clear that the person calling the shots was the Queen, and that the other three royal households - the then Waleses, the then Cambridges and the Sussexes - were the ones also involved in the negotiations.

We aren't living in some sort of fictional conspiracy theory world in which little grey men and women make the decisions.

This is just speculation, but I wonder if anyone ever suggested that Harry do something like working as an air ambulance pilot, as William did, if he was so unhappy in royal life. Or was it all about finding a celeb lifestyle which involved a lot of money?

 

[ladongas]

I wonder if any meeting which included all three couples was ever attempted? Everyone could have made and heard any and all suggestions. Royal or not, decisions in a marriage are not usually made by only one spouse, with no input from the other. And with all six parties together, why not include a facilitator, an ‘honest broker’, who could ask pertinent questions and steer the discussion in a frank but dignified manner?

 

[intothesea]

I’m wondering if the “neutral” advisor was someone suggested by Harry and Meghan, therefore sounding alarm bells that it would be another link to leaking about the family. Scobie, after all, claims to be neutral. Gayle King would say that too. Why wouldn’t their counselor be similar?

 

[Marengo]

Wouldn't many of these 'little grey men'- an awful and derogatory term for professionals IMO- just be doing their jobs? Many of them were hired for their skills and the advice they could provide. If I understood the extracts correctly, many were recruited from the field of communications, the civil service or the foreign service, including a former ambassador (!).

The resumes of any of these employees will be more impressive and relevant than that of most -if not all- members of the royal family. UK civil service is second to none in Europe and highly respected in Brussels.

It is up to the people in charge to see what they do with the advice that was given. But most public institutions would stop functioning without these highly skilled staffers around. To portray them as incompetent interchangable grey mice whose sole goals are to create discord in the family, gossip and to secretly take sips from the sherry bottle, is not fair but a caricature.

The power-imbalance that is ingrained in a royal court puts a great responsibility on the royals themselves NOT to misbehave and abuse their staff. Something recognised by the late Queen -if the book is correct- who supposedly pointed out just that to the Duchess of Sussex.

 

[Queen Claude]

Whilst the late Queen and Charles might make decisions, withholding family information, meddling or preventing family members from speaking with their parents or grandparents is not in their job description.

As per Valentine Low himself, having interviewed so many Courtiers, actual people as well as sources, he named the book "Courtiers: The Hidden Power Behind the Crown" and I doubt he was referring to Queen Mary, HMQM, or even Prince Philip. Read the blurb on Amazon, it's very interesting, starting with the heavy print introduction: and includes this little pearl.

I see what you are saying but is the culprit the courtiers themselves and some kind of perversion of their roles that needs reforming? I think the "culprit" is the modern monarchy itself and the fact that the monarch / monarchy itself is a part, and arguably a diminishing part, that exists with this other beast called The Royal Family.

Did the courtiers cross a line when they prevented Harry from speaking with his grandmother? IMO, no because Harry was not trying to get to his grandmother to show her photos of his recent stay in Canada, he was trying to get to her to influence her regarding changes he wanted to make to his role in The Firm.

IMO, the current situation with the monarch, the royal family, their "people", the media can be characterized as a Faustian deal. Nevertheless changes have to be made to keep up with the times, and yes to fix broken parts, and also to accommodate individual and the public's wants and needs.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

People need to stop confusing traditional courtiers with the staff that work with the offices of the Sussexes, Cambridge’s et al. The courtiers are not the same as the PR people, personal assistants etc. I know the book says “Courtiers” but the “grey men” and the staff working in the BRF offices aren’t the same in any way.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I doubt that Meghan/Harry would expect to appoint the neutral advisor all by themselves! And if all 6- or even just the three men- could decide on someone, his/her advice or decisions wouldn’t be binding on anyone. As things stand now, this situation is likely to further deteriorate. Millions of families, couples, people all over the world have benefited from counseling.
Otherwise, the spectacle of Harry not attending his father’s-or brother’s- coronation could only hurt the Crown. And the Firm could likely use Harry’s involvement, particularly as C&C age.

Harry and Meghan can be brought back into the fold. If they’re not, everyone suffers.

What do the Royals have to lose by trying counseling? They’re all imperfect.

“Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

What would he be needed for? How will anyone suffer if they are not brought back into the fold? There will be probably be a reduction in royal engagements over time.

 

[ladongas]

Charles and I are similar in age. I would not wish to be estranged from my (Harry’s age) son for the rest of my life.

 

[SLV]

Did the courtiers cross a line when they prevented Harry from speaking with his grandmother? IMO, no because Harry was not trying to get to his grandmother to show her photos of his recent stay in Canada, he was trying to get to her to influence her regarding changes he wanted to make to his role in The Firm.

That is just the problem. Diana and Harry complaining about those grey men trying to sabotage and manipulate, sounds paranoid and extremely unlikely.
Say, a member of the RF makes a request of the Monarch through a 'grey man'. Said man contorts the request for whatever reason and passes it on to the Monarch. Monarch is (perhaps) upset and asks member of RF about the request at the next possible moment. ---> grey man's manipulation comes to light and he is reprimanded/fired.
It just doesnt make sense.
So, if indeed a courtier refused Harry access to his grandmother, that would have been on HER direct orders, or at least with her knowledge.

 

[MARG]

Wasn't Sir Christopher Geidt, her late Majesty's Private Secretary replaced discreetly after an ongoing problem with blocking both Charles and Andrew's access to her? I don't know about anyone else, but a civvie blocking the heir's access to the Queen sure seems both an ill-advised power trip and a stumbling block to open dialogue between the much vaunted 'working' royals and their boss.

Just one example of delusions of grandeur and abuse of power by one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful Courtiers exercising his power behind the Crown.

 

[Alison H]

According to the opinion poll in the Express last week, the majority of people in the UK do not want Harry and Meghan back as working royals. Their disrespectful attitude towards the Queen, the blatant lies they told on the Oprah show (claiming that Archie wasn't given the title of prince because of racism) and Harry's whingeing about how awful life in the Royal Family was, and nasty comments about his father, have not gone down very well. I doubt that anyone will care very much if they don't attend the Coronation. And, given Harry and Meghan's constant complaints about royal life, presumably they don't want to come back anyway.

On a personal level, it's obviously a shame when there's a rift within any family, especially when children are affected. From what the book says, Harry and Meghan were angry and unhappy, and maybe the other senior Royals could and should have tried to do more to help. But I think Harry and Meghan have burnt a lot of bridges with the Oprah interview and Harry's later comments about his father. Then again, Charles held out an olive branch by saying that he still loves them, and William held out an olive branch by suggesting the joint walkabout at Windsor, so maybe not all's lost.

 

[muriel]

According to the opinion poll in the Express last week, the majority of people in the UK do not want Harry and Meghan back as working royals. Their disrespectful attitude towards the Queen, the blatant lies they told on the Oprah show (claiming that Archie wasn't given the title of prince because of racism) and Harry's whingeing about how awful life in the Royal Family was, and nasty comments about his father, have not gone down very well. I doubt that anyone will care very much if they don't attend the Coronation. And, given Harry and Meghan's constant complaints about royal life, presumably they don't want to come back anyway.

On a personal level, it's obviously a shame when there's a rift within any family, especially when children are affected. From what the book says, Harry and Meghan were angry and unhappy, and maybe the other senior Royals could and should have tried to do more to help. But I think Harry and Meghan have burnt a lot of bridges with the Oprah interview and Harry's later comments about his father. Then again, Charles held out an olive branch by saying that he still loves them, and William held out an olive branch by suggesting the joint walkabout at Windsor, so maybe not all's lost.

Very well written.

I agree, whilst on a personal level, for Charles' sake, one would hope the relationship with Harry and family improves. But from the perspective of the BRF, Harry remains irrelevant. In time, his negative comments will mean less and less, and people will just see him for the bitter and twisted individual he appears to be.

 

[Lilyflo]

Something the courtiers understand that Harry doesn't (or doesn't wish to) is that the role of all working royals is to support the monarchy. That's first and centre of everything the working BRF have to do. All engagements, actions and words must be focused on that main requirement. If a working royal wishes to be involved in something that doesn't have the agreement of the monarch, they can't do it. This isn't a personal slight or deliberate obstruction but anyone with a grudge or lack of understanding could construct a narrative to perpetuate the myth of not being valued or appreciated.

Valentine Low paints a picture of courtiers trying their best to accommodate H&M's wishes but they have to do this within the framework of what's best for the monarchy. Of course there will be tensions along the way, as there have been for Charles & William but HMQ (and now HMK) has the final say.

I've said this before (at length) but I think it's relevant to this book. In my opinion, Harry can't or won't accept that he must not outshine the monarch or immediate heirs. His job is to support them not to compete with them. His role model should be The Princess Royal, who works hard, supports many charities and accepts her position with grace. How often do we hear of her having battles with the monarch's courtiers about the work she does? I'm sure there are disagreements sometimes but she doesn't create a huge drama or make them public. Harry wasn't/isn't a good guide to royal life for an incoming wife due to his volatile temperament and his skewed judgement. The staff appointed to help H&M probably mitigated that a little but their advice mainly fell on deaf ears so their skill and experience was wasted.

 

[Marengo]

OT posts about another book and individual feelings about Katie Nicholls have been removed.

Please stay on topic.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Wasn't Sir Christopher Geidt, her late Majesty's Private Secretary replaced discreetly after an ongoing problem with blocking both Charles and Andrew's access to her? I don't know about anyone else, but a civvie blocking the heir's access to the Queen sure seems both an ill-advised power trip and a stumbling block to open dialogue between the much vaunted 'working' royals and their boss.

Just one example of delusions of grandeur and abuse of power by one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful Courtiers exercising his power behind the Crown.

It isn’t an abuse of power if the courtier was told to block them from meeting by the Queen herself. Besides, Andrew and Charles can be a handful and demanding, so I can understand blocking them at times. Courtiers aren’t perfect, but neither are family members who can be demanding and “extra”.

 

[HRHHermione]

New excerpt out this morning:

https://archive.ph/2022.09.25-23131...siders-he-falls-under-peoples-spell-rtjnm5zqd

This one focuses on Charles and his management style with a little bit about William

 

[Marengo]

This thread was closed and cleaned up due to members ignoring a previous mod. request.

Again: this thread is about a book written by Valentine Low. It is not about other books.

In case you are unsure about the topic you can find a hint in the title of this thread, which reads:
"Courtiers the Hidden Power Behind the Crown, by Valentine Low"

 

[AC21091968]

New excerpt out this morning:

https://archive.ph/2022.09.25-23131...siders-he-falls-under-peoples-spell-rtjnm5zqd

This one focuses on Charles and his management style with a little bit about William

Thanks HRHHermione for posting the archived link to the third extract! ?

Valentine Low certainly was critical of courtiers, royal staff members and in some instances, King Charles III (when he was The Prince of Wales) with the repeated words of "backstabbing", "demanding" and "temper". One may argue that the working environment at Clarence House was the definition of unhealthy competition between staff members. The term "falls under people’s spell" in describing The King reminds me of the quote "Advisors advice, Minister decides", except this time it's the head of the constitutional monarchy against courtiers and outsider instead of elected politicians against civil servants or special advisors.

On a different note, The Times has released an opinion piece (under The Times Leading Articles) on the conflict between the Sussexes and courtiers, after the release of Valentine Low's book extract. The article criticised both the Sussexes and courtiers on handling the situations regarding to Harry & Meghan leaving as working royals. It is interesting how the opinion writers ended on how it would be best for both parties if the Sussexes enjoy private life. I would assume that meant out of the public spotlight away from the celebrity lifestyles.

It is to be hoped that the Sussexes will enjoy private life. It will be to their own benefit, and enhance the dignity that King Charles has already demonstrated in his reign, if it is indeed private.

The Times view on Harry and Meghan’s clashes with courtiers: Royal Retreat
The conduct of the Sussexes made exit from their duties inevitable and desirable
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...lashes-with-courtiers-royal-retreat-lm5mhfsvz
Archived link: https://archive.ph/nlcav

 

[yukari]

Reading comments about the courtiers (esp private secretary) as the "main power", the one manipulating the Queen, blocking Harry from meeting her, etc, makes me chuckles because it reminds me of my workplace.

You see, there is "Harry" (the grandson) meeting "Elizabeth" (his grannie), but there is also "Harry" (the royal) meeting "Elizabeth II" (his Queen aka his boss).

Imagine this:
You want to meet your boss to discuss something. You head to his office but there's this person (the assistant) sitting at the table outside his office who suddenly blocking your way.
The Assistant: "Do you have appointment?"
You: "No, but it's urgent." (while waving a file to discuss and in need for his signature)
The Assistant: "Leave it here. I'll give it to him and he'll send you after he's free".
(What this assistant doesn't tell you is that your boss is in conference call at the moment).

A situation similar as above happened a lot to me and believe me, my first reaction wouldn't be to throw tantrum, huffing "Who do you think you are to stop me from meeting him!"

Nor would I accuse this assistant to "influence" more so "manipulating" my boss when I find out that when my boss want to call me to discuss the said file and the assistant stop him with "If it's not too urgent and the discussion will take some time, maybe do it tomorrow. You have meeting with client X at 2 pm and it'll be 30 minutes travel without traffic".

In my case, this assistant did have "power" over my boss and he relied to his PA a lot, especially about his diary/schedule (he could be very busy, running from one meeting to other conference call, not to mention reviewing documents and all that "boss stuff") and his PA was a very capable person so most of the time he'd listen and heed his PA's advice.

New excerpt out this morning:

https://archive.ph/2022.09.25-23131...siders-he-falls-under-peoples-spell-rtjnm5zqd

This one focuses on Charles and his management style with a little bit about William

So Charles was (is?) basically similar type of boss as Meghan? And while Meghan is a "nightmare" boss, they tolerate(d?) Charles ...
But it's not surprising, this is a monarchy after all. It operates on hierarchy based on birth order, not fairness nor equality. The first in line to the throne vs the wife of 6th in line, so there you have it, of course they'd be treated differently.

 

[Claire]

It is difficult to say - when a staff have been with a principle for long enough they accept how it works. There is a better drive towards that goal - as a team. Personally I think most of the problem with the Sussex is that they were working towards a different goal. Harry and Meghan were looking here and the team was looking there. No common viewpoint of what the office should have been working towards. And yes that type of alignment takes time - and is not helped by people leaving.
I was recently asked if the royal offices receive a mandate - if there is a single purpose coming from Charles office down. And yes there is. However the personal approach of the principal need to align to that mandate. Essential the office moves the royal according to the monarch's direction. Not the royal tells their office that this is how they are going to run things and then don't do any coordination with the other offices. I can understand why people think that the Sussex's were a loose cannon - running to crowd pleasing engagements and wanting to do politicized issues. It is just a complete lack of understanding.

 

[AC21091968]

(...)
So Charles was (is?) basically similar type of boss as Meghan? And while Meghan is a "nightmare" boss, they tolerate(d?) Charles ...
But it's not surprising, this is a monarchy after all. It operates on hierarchy based on birth order, not fairness nor equality. The first in line to the throne vs the wive of 6th in line, so there you have it, of course they'd be treated differently.

Some may argue Charles is similar to Harry's frustration with the media. I guess the only difference is that Charles does not necessarily direct his frustration at each individual and managed to calm down later. In some cases, the staff members find these temper outbursts amusing. I am not defending Charles' temper outburst or demanding/pushing staff into outside working hours.

“He would drive people hard. He was full of ideas, always asking people to go and do things. The workload as private secretary would be immense. He had strong opinions. He also had a proper temper on him, which was quite fun. He would rarely direct it at the individual. It would be about something, and he would lose his temper. He would throw something. He would go from zero to 60 in a flash, and then back down again. Things would frustrate him, especially the media.”

 

[ladongas]

Charles really had it in for that fountain pen the other day, didn’t he?