Having just gone thru this recently with my older brother, 1st responders HAVE to assist you. The DNR comes into play ast the hospital. The doctors are the only ones that can officially declare you clinically brain dead, and even then it takes 2 different doctors, from 2 different specialties, doing 2 seperate test to find out if there is any brain activity. If there is the slightest brain activity, they can not declare you clinically brain dead and will give the choice to the family whether to remain on the life support or go by the DNR and remove the ventilator. But this is only AFTER all test have been done to find out about brain activity.
My brother had just turned 51 on a sunday. on Tues night, he had a massive stroke, but was still able to communicate. By Weds morning, the stroke had killed off 70% of his brain and was still swelling.This s when they put him on the ventilator to do the surgery. They did surgery and removed half his skull. They did hypothermia to see if they could bring down some of the swelling, but it did not work. Even if it had, the vast majority of his brain was dead and he would never recover. He did not have a DNR and we all decided to take him off the ventilator and he breathed on his own for an entire day before he passed. The only part of his brain that was working was the part that sends signals for "reflexes" and breathing was part of this. So they could possibly take Friso off the ventilator and he could surive for a long time. He could pass in minutes. It all comes down to how much damage was actually done and what % of his brain is actually dead. Oh and it also depends on what side of his brain the damage was done to. The brain is very unforgiving when it has encountered any kind of damage. And with Friso not having oxygen for any length of time, be it short or long, part of his brain is dead. It dies off very quickly due to oxygen and blood supply loss.
as for my opinion, they should take him off the ventilator and let his body/brain do what it wants. In the end, it is his decision after all, if one can look at it that way.
sesa . . .
First, please accept my heartfelt condolences on your brother's loss. I am so, very, very sorry, and my prayers are with you.
Secondly, thank you for the deeply moving and personal info you shared about what the specific parameters are regarding DNR, what the role of a first responder is on scene, and the roles the doctors play once the individual has arrived at the hospital.
One of the reasons I enjoy coming on boards is that there is always the opportunity to learn something, and I very much appreciate your opening yourself up by sharing your personal experience in order to educate myself and others about this.
Now that I have this knowledge, I will pass it along. Because regardless of anything we might
want to have happen in a situation, any written directives, or so on, that we have in place, nothing is ever certain, and good information needs to be shared.
Like
COUNTESS, I remember the Karen Quinlan situation. That her family obtained a court order and she was taken off the machines, yet lingered in limbo for years until she gave up fighting.
I cannot even begin to imagine or fathom what it must have been like to have been a member of her immediate family. Or to be a member of the Dutch royal family, now.
My heart goes out to all of them, too.
I can tell you that I share your opinion that if Friso was a member of my family, I would want him removed from the vent. Whenever his passing happened, the way I look at it, that is when it was meant to happen.
And so be it.
Until that time, I would not want him to be artificially maintained.
Thank you again,
sesa.