The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > The Imperial Family of Russia

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #561  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:01 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna was born in a clear equal marriage.Her mother was a Princess of Georgia belonging to one of the most ancient Royal Families in the world.It is true that between the beginning of the XIXth century till to the XXth century Georgia was occupied by the russian troops and its Royal Family was not recognized with the royal status by the Russian Empire.But nobody can say the Royal Family of George has the same rank with a russian aristocrat family.
There is no evidence Grand Duchess Maria is not the Head of the Imperial Family of Russia.The Laws of Succession (for who really study them) are quite clear.

Royal House of Georgia | Royal house | Dynasty
The Gruzinsky line is direct to the last reigning King of Georgia, not the Moukhransky, which has been junior and non-reigning for centuries. Leonida's line hasn't been royal for hundreds of years. The Russian noble houses, some of which were rulers in Belarus and other part of the Empire prior to Russification, were all subjects of the Tsar as well.

No one is saying Maria doesn't have a valid claim. The real issue is her claim is no better than anyone else who is also descended from a marriage between a dynast and a woman of the Russian nobility (including Nicholas Romanov). Given that point, she takes precedence after the senior male morganauts because she is a woman.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:07 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post

No one is saying Maria doesn't have a valid claim. The real issue is her claim is no better than anyone else who is also descended from a marriage between a dynast and a woman of the Russian nobility (including Nicholas Romanov). Given that point, she takes precedence after the senior male morganauts because she is a woman.
Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make but not as well as you. It seems to me that no one alive meets the requirements under the laws of succession and for the sake of lively discussion, if nothing else, we can discuss who should be the head of the deposed house. But it seems like some of us are perceived as beating our heads against the wall.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:14 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
Grand Duchess Leonida descended from the serior line of the Royal House of Georgia( there were different branches and different little georgian Kingdoms until the late XVIIIth century) .She belonged to a Royal House that is more ancient than the Romanovs.Before and after the russian occupation nobody denied the royal status of the Bagratides.Even today we speak about the possibility of restoring on the Throne of Georgia Prince Davod of Bagration, one of Grand Duchess Leonida's close relatives.
All the campaigns who try to deny the Headship of the Imperial House for Grand Duchess Maria do not serve at anything because are without serious reasons and are made usually by persons who have a special sympathy for one or another of the descendants of morganatic marriage.
Despite these controversies the russian state in the last 20 years have always given the specific respect to grand Duchess Maria in accordance with the traditional imperial laws, with the voice of russian orthodoxy .
If Monarchy will be restored ever in Russia Grand Duchess Maria, Grand Duke George or their descendants will have to prove they deserve their heritage.

http://www.riuo.org/RussianImperialS...uccession.html

http://www.chivalricorders.org/royal...ha/russucc.htm
Reply With Quote
  #564  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:00 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 6,196
Quote:
Even today we speak about the possibility of restoring on the Throne of Georgia Prince Davod of Bagration, one of Grand Duchess Leonida's close relatives.
If memory serves me right, neither Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna nor Grand Duke Georgii attended the wedding of Prince David and Princess Anna. It is a moot point whether the Georgian restoration ever takes place.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things"
Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:20 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
If memory serves me right, neither Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna nor Grand Duke Georgii attended the wedding of Prince David and Princess Anna. It is a moot point whether the Georgian restoration ever takes place.
That's correct. And Maria has been very careful in interviews with the Russian media not to disparage the Kremlin's actions in trying to destabilize Georgia or its duly-elected government. The last thing she wants is any attention to be drawn to the fact her mother was Georgian.

Russia is not exactly supportive of Georgia or its independence, especially under the reign of Putin.
Reply With Quote
  #566  
Old 07-28-2011, 04:39 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pressburg, Slovakia
Posts: 34
Quote:
Children born of a marriage between a person of the Imperial Family and a person not of corresponding dignity, that is not belonging to any royal or sovereign house, have no right of succession to the Throne.
source

It seems for me that Moukhransky´s were not sovereign house when GD Vladimir married. Can we say that Moukhransky´s were (are) royal house? Cory says that yes. If it is true, than condition of Pauline Law is fulfilled.
Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 07-28-2011, 05:19 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
Grand Duchess Maria would not speak too much about Georgia because of the policy of Russia towards this country.

It is true there are different branches of the Royal House of Georgia and every of these reigned in a certain moment on a Principality or Kingdom in Georgia.
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 07-30-2011, 02:09 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
For those who want to understand better the Russian Succession:

RussianImperialSuccession

Russian monarchists' new Document:

http://en.legitimist.ru/news/2011/07...for-russi.html

Possibilities of restoration:

http://en.legitimist.ru/news/2011/04...-possible.html
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:20 AM
genegirl99's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in a hole in the wall town in Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 136
Okay, pretend for a moment that restoration is possible. The average Russian goes to the voting booth and has three candidates for Tsar: Georgi of Russia, Rostislav Romanov, and Michael of Kent. And say Rostislav won the vote. What would happen? What would his role be? What new house rules could be come up with?
__________________
Proud Percy Descendant ('cause Percy's rule the world!)
Writer on fanficnation.net
Knitting with the Royals
Genealogist: shrinking the world one person at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #570  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:29 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
In the case of the restoration surely Grand Duchess Maria becomes Empress being recognized as Head of the imperial House by the Russian Orthodox Church and by the authorities.The succession is automatic and no popular vote can influence on that.
The problem is the majority of russians do not seem to be interested in this moment in a restoration.
Reply With Quote
  #571  
Old 08-02-2011, 10:42 AM
genegirl99's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in a hole in the wall town in Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 136
Suspend your belief for a moment.
__________________
Proud Percy Descendant ('cause Percy's rule the world!)
Writer on fanficnation.net
Knitting with the Royals
Genealogist: shrinking the world one person at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #572  
Old 08-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
The Imperial House of Russia represents an hereditary Monarchy so things are like this.The main issue is that there is no sign for a restoration of Monarchy now.
Why should Putin or Medvedev want to restore the Romanovs?
Reply With Quote
  #573  
Old 08-02-2011, 06:58 PM
Russophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Portland, United States
Posts: 4,076
Tourist dollars.
__________________
"Not MGM, not the press, not anyone can tell me what to do."--Ava Gardner
Reply With Quote
  #574  
Old 08-02-2011, 08:06 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Imperial House of Russia represents an hereditary Monarchy so things are like this.The main issue is that there is no sign for a restoration of Monarchy now.
Why should Putin or Medvedev want to restore the Romanovs?
They won't. It's not going to happen and there is little-to-no support for a monarchy in Russia among average citizens.
Reply With Quote
  #575  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:52 PM
genegirl99's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in a hole in the wall town in Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 136
Okay folks, I was talking about a fantasy, not in real life...it came out of my idle curiosity and imagination...
__________________
Proud Percy Descendant ('cause Percy's rule the world!)
Writer on fanficnation.net
Knitting with the Royals
Genealogist: shrinking the world one person at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #576  
Old 08-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 899
Are there not more neutral choices?
Reply With Quote
  #577  
Old 08-03-2011, 05:15 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
Strangely the russian authorities are very pleased to see Grand Duchess Maria visiting Ukraine or the separatist region of Transnistria because like this the russian influence is underlined.
Reply With Quote
  #578  
Old 08-03-2011, 09:11 AM
genegirl99's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in a hole in the wall town in Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat
Are there not more neutral choices?
I just picked those three off the top of my head...knowing of anyone other than Georgi won, Maria would freak...

I could have myself up. All my German ancestors moved to Russia before coming to the US. ;-). My great-great-grandpa surrendered his allegiance to Tsar Nicholas II. His father and his father's nephew surrendered their allegiances to the Provisional Government... When they became US citizens.
__________________
Proud Percy Descendant ('cause Percy's rule the world!)
Writer on fanficnation.net
Knitting with the Royals
Genealogist: shrinking the world one person at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #579  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:16 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,995
Any political party with members in the Duma is in favour of monarchy?
Reply With Quote
  #580  
Old 08-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 899
Quote:
knowing of anyone other than Georgi won, Maria would freak...
That would be interesting to watch.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
monarchy, romanovs, ruriks, russia


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
belgium best outfit brussels carl philip chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events death duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall fashion fashion poll funeral germany infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander lalla salma letizia maxima nobility official visit picture of the week poland president gauck president hollande president komorowski prince carl philip prince daniel princess claire princess madeleine princess mary princess mette-marit princess of asturias queen fabiola queen letizia queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima style queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal fashion sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague victoria visit wedding willem-alexander


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:41 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]