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  #381  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:33 AM
eya eya is offline
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Charles Bonaparte and his family live in France? I don't know anything about them.They have job?
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  #382  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:36 AM
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Jean-Christophe has the typical "Napoléon look"...

See picture:
Princess Béatrice de Bourbon des Deux Siciles (formerly Béatrice Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon) with her two children Marie-Caroline Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon and Jean-Christophe Bonaparte, Prince Napoléon.
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  #383  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:43 AM
eya eya is offline
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Oh he is handsome. What he is doing to his life? What you mean the typical "Napoleon look"?
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  #384  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
Charles Bonaparte and his family live in France? I don't know anything about them.They have job?
See picture:
Marie-Caroline Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon and her brother Jean-Christophe Bonaparte, Prince Napoléon, pose in front of the painting "the coronation of Emperor Napoléon". He could immediately play Napoléon in a movie... black hair, big nose, typical Napoléon.

Jean-Christophe is an Private Equity Associate in London. Before that he has working as Investment Banking Analist at Morgan Stanley & Co in New York.

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  #385  
Old 05-16-2015, 10:49 AM
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See picture:
Jean-Christophe Bonaparte, Prince Napoléon and his grandmother Alix Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon née De Foresta bring homage to the most famous Napoléon, in the Dôme des Invalides (Paris).

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  #386  
Old 05-16-2015, 11:07 AM
eya eya is offline
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Understand the napoleon look you say. And his sister?
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  #387  
Old 05-16-2015, 11:44 AM
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And because said that Duc it is the right thing? I think and the Duke of Anjou have supporters in France.
No eya, I don't need what Duc says to know the truth. But I agree with him on this matter (something that doesn't happens so often).

As I believe on the validity of the Treaty of Utrecht, I doesn't recognize Luís Alfonso de Borbón's claim to the Throne of France. To me, the rightful King of France is Prince Henri of Orleans, Count of Paris and Duke of France.

Also, the only Duke of Anjou I recognize is Prince Charles-Philippe of Orleans, Duke of Anjou and Cadaval.
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  #388  
Old 05-16-2015, 11:59 AM
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Why Louis-Alfonso and Charles-Philippe have the same title?
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  #389  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:10 PM
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Why Louis-Alfonso and Charles-Philippe have the same title?
Luis Alfonso believes himself to be the rightful King of France, so he uses the title of Duke of Anjou.

Prince Charles-Philippe of Orleans had his title granted to him, in 2004, by his uncle, the Count of Paris and Head of the Royal House of France.

He's Duke of Cadaval by virtue of his marriage to the Duchess of Cadaval, a Portuguese noblewoman.
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  #390  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:18 PM
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This title mean you are the heir? But the count of Paris don't have a son Prince Jean? Why give that title to the nephew and not the son?
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  #391  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:26 PM
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When Luis-Alfonso took the title "Duque de Anjou", one can see some logic in that as he is the most senior male descendant from Philippe de Bourbon, Duc d'Anjou whom became King Felipe V of Spain.

The Orléanists say: when this Philippe de Bourbon accepted the throne of Spain and the division of the two thrones, all his French titles reverted to the French Crown.

Prince Henri d'Orléans could have chosen out of sooooo many historic French titles. Most likely, out of pettiness, irritation, for the sake of provocation, whatever, he decided to create his nephew Prince Charles-Philippe de Bourbon "Duc d'Anjou".

Possibly Prince Henri d'Orléans was provoked because Luis Alfonso de Borbón started to use the title "Duque de Anjou" ánd the French royal coat-of-arms. Possibly to obstruct Luis Alfonso and his claims, he created someone else -and in his eyes the only one- "Duc d'Anjou".
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  #392  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:48 PM
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Perhaps the Prince Henri wanted to show who is in charge. I'm very sorry but all this are like a soap opera look forward to seeing the continuation and that i say with the funny side.
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  #393  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:09 PM
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This title mean you are the heir? But the count of Paris don't have a son Prince Jean? Why give that title to the nephew and not the son?
The title Duc d'Anjou was always given to a younger son :

The 3rd son of Henri IV, King of France
The 2nd son of Louis XIII, King of France
The 2nd son of Louis XIV, King of France
The 2nd son of Louis "Le Grand Dauphin"
The 3rd son of Louis "Le Petit Dauphin"
The 4th son of Louis XV, King of France
The 4th son of Louis, Dauphin of France

Besides that, note that Prince Jean is not the eldest son of Prince Henri d'Orléans. He has an elder brother, Prince François d'Orléans (1961). This Prince is severely disabled because of toxoplasmosis. Nevertheless he is the rightful Dauphin de France. Because of his handicap, his younger brother Prince Jean d'Orléans (1965) became appointed "Régent du Dauphin" by their father.

- Prince Henri d'Orléans, Chef de la Maison de France (1933)
1 Prince François d'Orléans, Dauphin de France (1961)
2 Prince Jean d'Orléans, Régent du Dauphin (1965)
3 Prince Gaston d'Orléans (2009)

The Dauphin and his sister Princess Blanche live in a special institution in Fribourg (Switzerland). In holidays they spend their time with their mother, the Duchesse de Montpensier and their siblings.

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  #394  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:33 PM
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And why not Prince Henri give that title to the younger son Prince Eudes?
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  #395  
Old 05-16-2015, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

Possibly Prince Henri d'Orléans was provoked because Luis Alfonso de Borbón started to use the title "Duque de Anjou" ánd the French royal coat-of-arms. Possibly to obstruct Luis Alfonso and his claims, he created someone else -and in his eyes the only one- "Duc d'Anjou".
Isn't the use of the royal coat of arms protected by law ? Couldn't Prince Henri sue Luis Alfonso for using it unlawfully ?
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  #396  
Old 05-16-2015, 02:50 PM
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And why not Prince Henri give that title to the younger son Prince Eudes?
The three sons of Prince Henri d'Orléans were all born in the 1960's, far from the feud with Luis Alfonso de Borbón about the title Duc d'Anjou. My guess is that they never used that title, to prevent eventual controverses. When Luis Alfonso de Borbón assumed the title Duque de Anjou (like his father and grandfather did) ánd especially started to use the un-differented royal arms of the Kings of France (the three fleur-de-lys on a field azure proper), this probably made Prince Henri d'Orléans explode...



To explain the differences in the use of the coat-of-arms:

The House of Orléans used this coat-of-arms. Above the three fleurs-de-lys d'or, a lambel d'argent (silver label) is visible. Such a label was used to indicate a junior branch (cadet) of a family.




When the male lineage of Louis XIV in France (the senior branch) became extinct in 1883, the House of Orléans started to use the royal coat-of-arms without the label. With this they indicate that they are the most senior French royal branch and have the right to use the un-differented coat-of-arms of the House of France:






The Spanish Royal House, despite the fact that they are descendants from Louis XIV and the more senior branch (!), respects the separation from the throne of France and does NOT claim the un-differented Bourbon coat-of-arms.

This is the arms of the House of Anjou, from which the Spanish Royal House descends:



This emblem forms the heart of the coat-of-arms of Spain:




What did Luis-Alfonso de Borbón do? He used the title Duc d'Anjou. As a descendant of the Spanish House Bourbon-Anjou he naturally should have used the arms of the House of Anjou, like the Spanish royal family:

as heartshield:


That sounds logic: he is a descendant from the House of Anjou ánd he claims to be Duque de Anjou. But what did Luis Alfonso? He thought: "Wait a minute: I am not only the Duke of Anjou, the most senior male of the House of Anjou....
I am the most senior Bourbon of all!! The undifferenced coat-of-arms, the three golden fleurs-de-lys on a field azure proper belong to me! These are my arms, the arms of the Kings of France!":


as heartshield:




It seemed not only Prince Henri d'Orléans was enraged. Also King Juan Carlos of Spain was most "not amused" with these adventures of his Spanish cousin. That is an explanation why we never see Luis Alfonso de Borbón on Spanish royal events. The only difference is that red cadre around the coat-of-arms, but for royals it makes a whole difference....
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  #397  
Old 05-16-2015, 03:21 PM
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But why he did that to explode and spanish royal family? For the Prince Henri understand he concider himself heir of the french throne but for the spain? He is so ambitius or stupid?
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  #398  
Old 05-16-2015, 06:01 PM
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It is fortunate the Orleans have no chance of being restored to the non-existent throne. Their perpetual feuding [both 'privately' and publicly [in the courts] does them no credit as a family, and would reflect badly on France were they its reigning family.
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  #399  
Old 05-16-2015, 06:27 PM
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It is fortunate the Orleans have no chance of being restored to the non-existent thron,. Their perpetual feuding [both 'privately' and publicly [in the courts] does them no credit as a family, and would reflect badly on France were they its reigning family.
Have so right. All such disputes for a non-existent throne .But maybe for these have some importance even in paper.
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  #400  
Old 05-17-2015, 08:37 AM
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But why he did that to explode and spanish royal family? For the Prince Henri understand he concider himself heir of the french throne but for the spain? He is so ambitius or stupid?
I think Don Luis Alfonso and his father Don Alfonso regret the renunciation of Don Jaime. Since his renunciation, the line of Don Jaime's younger brother Don Juan is now on the throne of Spain. When Don Jaime had not renounced the throne of Spain and his son Don Alfonso and his grandson Don Luis Alfonso were now Kings of Spain, we would never have heard about claiming the throne of France.... I think that is the source of the problem.

Since the renunciation of Don Luis Alfonso's grandfather, the most senior Bourbon line has become "sidelined" so to say. They play no any role anymore and that possibly is hard to swallow for them. I have to say that the younger generation, Don Luis Alfonso and Prince Jean d'Orléans, go well together. It was more a clash with Prince Henri, the current head of the House of France and maybe also a clash of characters. His son Prince Jean d'Orléans seems more a diplomatic sort of guy.

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