Vatican City State: Pope Benedict XVI, January 2006 - February 2013

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by American Dane

I believe it was reported that he will remain Benedict XVI, but I could be wrong

His Holiness Benedict XVI, Pope Emeritus. Kinda like a Dowager Queen title if you get me. The Pope apparently spent his first "free day" watching the news in Italian.

[Kataryn]

An old friend and confidant who became priest together with the Ratzinger brothers in 1951 told that Benedikt signs his letters to him: "In old friendship, Benedikt Joseph".

A lot of German friends said that they look very much forward to visiting Benedikt now, when he has more time to spent with them. And that he had thought about relocating to Germany, but that the climate in Rome is much better or his health. So much or "hiding out in the Vatican for fear of arrest."

[An Ard Ri]

Meetings between cardinals begin, 103 of the 115 electors already in Rome

Meetings between cardinals begin, 103 of the 115 electors already in Rome - YouTube

[An Ard Ri]

College of Cardinals still largely European body

College of Cardinals still largely European body - YouTube

[An Ard Ri]

Cardinals arrive for first pre-conclave meeting at Vatican

Cardinals arrive for first pre-conclave meeting at Vatican - YouTube

[An Ard Ri]

Cassocks for future Pope already made!

Cassocks for future Pope already made - YouTube

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Maybe the new pontiff will call for a Vatican III.

I hope not.

The well meaning and beloved John XXIII convened Vatican II in the early 60's to "open the windows of the Church and let in some fresh air". What we got-along with the fresh air- was chaos. The sharp drop in priests, nuns and other religious vocations that continues unabated to this day began after the Council. Innovations in the Mass that in some ways stripped it of all sense of sacredness and mystery. Abuses in the Liturgy and the very Sacrament of the Eucharist itself began after Vatican II. The emphasis away from orthodox catechesis in favor of watered down touchy feely platitudes promulgated by the priests who did remain.

I do not blame this on John XXIII. He died before the end of the Council. Church progressives took charge and took their zeal for "reform" that they insisted was so much needed way too far. What resulted was confusion. The number of Catholics who were born after Vatican II, many of whom are completely misinformed and ignorant about what the Church actually teaches, is not simply astonishing and sad...it's tragic.

Some very good things came from Vatican II. For example the renewed emphasis on social justice, on evangelization, the Mass in the vernacular so the laity have more actual involvement in what is going on.

But I feel that the bad outweighs the good. Another Council could do more harm than good, imo.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

But I feel that the good outweighs the bad. Another Council could do more harm than good, imo.

If the good outweighed the bad at Vatican II why would you think the same would not also be true of a Vatican III?

[Moonmaiden23]

Ngalitzine, I posted that last line AFTER I finished my daiquiri! I meant it the other way around...I think the BAD outweighed the good as far as what the Council led to. I corrected my post.

Sorry for confusion.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I hope not.

The well meaning and beloved John XXIII convened Vatican II in the early 60's to "open the windows of the Church and let in some fresh air". What we got-along with the fresh air- was chaos. The sharp drop in priests, nuns and other religious vocations that continues unabated to this day began after the Council. Innovations in the Mass that in some ways stripped it of all sense of sacredness and mystery. Abuses in the Liturgy and the very Sacrament of the Eucharist itself began after Vatican II. The emphasis away from orthodox catechesis in favor of watered down touchy feely platitudes promulgated by the priests who did remain.

I do not blame this on John XXIII. He died before the end of the Council. Church progressives took charge and took their zeal for "reform" that they insisted was so much needed way too far. What resulted was confusion. The number of Catholics who were born after Vatican II, many of whom are completely misinformed and ignorant about what the Church actually teaches, is not simply astonishing and sad...it's tragic.

Some very good things came from Vatican II. For example the emphasis on social justice, on evangelization, the Mass in the vernacular so the laity have more actual involvement in what is going on.

But I feel that the bad outweighs the good. Another Council could do more harm than good, imo.

*Like*


LaRae

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I hope not.

The well meaning and beloved John XXIII convened Vatican II in the early 60's to "open the windows of the Church and let in some fresh air". What we got-along with the fresh air- was chaos. The sharp drop in priests, nuns and other religious vocations that continues unabated to this day began after the Council. Innovations in the Mass that in some ways stripped it of all sense of sacredness and mystery. Abuses in the Liturgy and the very Sacrament of the Eucharist itself began after Vatican II. The emphasis away from orthodox catechesis in favor of watered down touchy feely platitudes promulgated by the priests who did remain.

I do not blame this on John XXIII. He died before the end of the Council. Church progressives took charge and took their zeal for "reform" that they insisted was so much needed way too far. What resulted was confusion. The number of Catholics who were born after Vatican II, many of whom are completely misinformed and ignorant about what the Church actually teaches, is not simply astonishing and sad...it's tragic.

Some very good things came from Vatican II. For example the emphasis on social justice, on evangelization, the Mass in the vernacular so the laity have more actual involvement in what is going on.

But I feel that the bad outweighs the good. Another Council could do more harm than good, imo.

ITA! Unlike you, I do blame John XXIII; what was he thinking?
I honestly think Vatican II nearly destroyed the Catholic Church!

I don't think much good came of it at all; I am one of those dinosaurs who much preferred the mass in Latin. And so many wonderful traditions, in use for centuries, were discarded or rendered "optional."

I think John XXIII was the worst pope ever, in so far as his pontificate damaged the Catholic Church.

[Pranter]

We really need a like button here.

I love Latin Mass....wish we had one here! Closest one is over an hour away!


LaRae

[Iluvbertie]

You can always send 'thanks' for those posts you like - not public but still a way of showing your appreciation.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Mirabel

ITA! Unlike you, I do blame John XXIII; what was he thinking?
I honestly think Vatican II nearly destroyed the Catholic Church!

I don't think much good came of it at all; I am one of those dinosaurs who much preferred the mass in Latin. And so many wonderful traditions, in use for centuries, were discarded or rendered "optional."

I think John XXIII was the worst pope ever, in so far as his pontificate damaged the Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic Church had much that needed to be reformed, imo. The emphasis on rigid formalism that required anyone approaching the pontiff to genuflect three times and in some cases to kiss his foot. The Pope used to wear a jeweled tiara too and seemed remote and unapproachable.

Divorced people were excommunicated in many cases before Vatican II.

And very often the Church found itself on the wrong side of history in places such as Latin America, aligning itself with corrupt authoritarian dictatorships is only one among several examples.

It is under John XXIII that the Papacy re-emphasized what it was supposed to have been all along...a pastoral position with the Pope as as the Shepherd of the Flock of Christ on Earth in a direct unbroken line from Peter the Fisherman. Not just another European and temporal monarch.

Christ told Peter to "feed my sheep"...not wear a crown and imitate a worldly king. And that is exactly what Angelo Roncalli did.

It is under his pontificate that the College of Cardinals became truly international and not composed of mostly Italians, and that the Church re asserted itself as a champion of the poor and suffering.Which is exactly what the true Church of Christ is supposed to do, imo.

Vatican II was hijacked by progressives with their own agenda, but he can hardly be blamed for that as he died two years before the Council ended.

I think of him-along with John Paul I and II-as a saint. I was thrilled when he was formally beatified.

If you really think this man was the "worst" Pope...worse than the Borgia Alexander VI the poisoner/whoremaster who had his illegitimate offspring raised to the College of Cardinals...or worse than Julius II who sold indulgences to build St Peter's Basilica and loved war, I don't really know how to respond, Mirabel.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I think of him-along with John Paul I and II-as a saint. I was thrilled when he was formally beatified.

If you really think this man was the "worst" Pope...worse than the Borgia Alexander VI the poisoner/whoremaster who had his illegitimate offspring raised to the College of Cardinals...or worse than Julius II who sold indulgences to build St Peter's Basilica and loved war, I don't really know how to respond, Mirabel.

You have already responded.
It's plain you admire him, and I don't deny he had many admirable qualities.

But I can't forgive him for all the damage.

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Cassocks for future Pope already made!

Gosh! Lets hope whoever is elected can fit into them!
I do love the red papal shoes - nothing beats a good pair of Italian-made shoes - I bought a pair in Lucca a few years back and they fitted perfectly, it was like wearing slippers on a soft carpet. Unfortunately the British weather took its toll on them :-(
I know that Benedict brought back some of the tradional papal clothes such as the Capello Romano and the camauro and I wonder if the new pope will continue wearing these.

[NGalitzine]

Maybe the new pontiff should hire an outside consulting firm to help him revamp the Vatican administration since Vatileaks has revealed it is a bit of a shambles.

[Lumutqueen]

That doesn't look like the ex-Pope; PICTURED: Pope seen for the first time since he retired and he's chilling out in his favourite baseball cap | Mail Online

[Kit]

Hmmm to be honest I think it is indeed Joseph Ratzinger. I agree you can not tell for sure because you can not see his face but Ratzinger has such a white baseball cap and stick. He also looked incredibly frail and old last week just like the person in the pic. And Georg Gänswein is walking with him which is at least for me a sure sign that it is the old pope.

[Lumutqueen]

Assuming the pictures futher down the article were taken the same day, then it was it him. However the "chi" cover doesn't seem to look like him.