Carl Philip and Sofia's Wedding: Suggestions and Musings

[HRHHermione]

^ UMM, not like every woman in the SRF. Queen Silvia wears what she wants. Victoria and Madeleine are Princesses of the Blood and have always had access. Sofia would have to ask in advance in case someone else wants to wear X, I would think, not just point and say "Bring it to me". Way down the food chain SRF wise.

They all have access to a jewelry foundation that is shared amongst all the royal women. It's a pretty well known arrangement.

Certain pieces ARE reserved for the Queen and the Crown Princess, but the rest are shared amongst all the royal women. How they decide who wears what is internal, but I doubt they're petty enough to fight about it.

I was really just correcting your erroneous assumption that a new person marrying into the family poses a risk to the collection. The foundation ensures the jewelry stays with the family, and again, Sofia will have access to the jewel collection.


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[scooter]

HRH H, I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the SRF jewel foundation that they would all have access to...EQUALLY? Is there a link?


SH could just say I want to wear the big gun tiara without clearing it with those higher up the food chain?

 

[HRHHermione]

HRH H, I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the SRF jewel foundation that they would all have access to...EQUALLY? Is there a link?


SH could just say I want to wear the big gun tiara without clearing it with those higher up the food chain?

No, that's not how it works, as I explained in my post- there are definitely tiaras reserved for the queen and crown princess, but the rest are worn by the whole family, and this includes many of the historic tiaras.

If you're interested in learning about it, I suggest you read this: http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2011/10/royal-splendor-101-family-jewel.html?m=1

Also: if you look at the individual tiara page for almost every Swedish tiara, you'll find examples of it being worn by most of the family at one point or another. Exceptions are the Braganza and the Leuchtenburg sapphires

There's no reason to believe that Sofia won't have access to the foundation- behind Queen Silvia and Crown Princess Victoria, but roughly equal to Princess Madeleine and the sisters of the King. My own speculation is that a curator-type person who oversees the collection probably works out the schedule with the stylists used by the women in the family.

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[muriel]

For some time I too thought that the Baden fringe was meant to be exclusively worn by the Crown Princess. But then Victoria seems to have stopped wearing it, and it was worn by her aunt at Madeleine's wedding. So I thing that the fringe is still in the running for Sofia's wedding tiara.

I do not think Victoria has "dropped" the Baden Fringe. In recent years, she has tended to wear the Cut Steel tiaras more than anything else. I would not read much into it.

As for as her aunt using the Fringe tiara at Maddy's wedding, most of the non-"Big Guns" get used at the weddings as all the royal ladies need tiaras. This is why one of the King's sisters was wearing the Nine Pronger at Victoria's wedding, which is usually only used by the Queen.

 

[principessa]

What do you think of Prince Carl Philip creating a new tiara for Sofia?

 

[An Ard Ri]

What do you think of Prince Carl Philip creating a new tiara for Sofia?

Its a possibility I guess and its always nice to see a new tiara.

 

[Mbruno]

I quite agree. If she's going to wear a tiara CP should buy her one of her own. Then if the marriage does not last she gets to keep it and the SRF gets to keep the historical pieces.

In the Netherlands and in Sweden, most "historical pieces" have been placed into private family foundations that keep them in trust for perpetual use by the Orange-Nassau and Bernadotte families respectively. The jewelry held by the family trust cannot be sold or inherited and there is no risk then of any piece ever leaving the royal house.

As far as I understand, the most significant Danish royal jewels are not personally owned by the royal family either, but, unlike in Sweden and the Netherlands, they are not held in a private family trust, but rather by the State directly. The Dutch and Swedish arrangements are considered safer for the families because, since there is no state involvement at all in the administration of the collection, they have an additional safeguard from having their assets seized by the government should the monarchy be hypothetically abolished in the future.

Finally, the UK has a mixed system. The so-called "Crown Jewels", which are seen in coronation pieces like crowns, scepters and orbs, are part of the State-controlled "royal collection", together with several older pieces (including tiaras and small items) that predate Queen Victoria's demise. Most jewelry pieces acquired after the Victorian era are, however, privately owned by different members of the BRF, including Queen Elizabeth II's own extensive personal collection, which she frequently wears in state events and loans to other members of the family. Being personal items, they can be sold, given out as gifts, or passed on by inheritance. Several cadet branches of the House of Windsor for example are known to have sold quite a lot of jewerlry in recent decades as they became strapped for cash.

I hope I got that right.

 

[Tilia C.]

I do not think Victoria has "dropped" the Baden Fringe. In recent years, she has tended to wear the Cut Steel tiaras more than anything else. I would not read much into it.

As for as her aunt using the Fringe tiara at Maddy's wedding, most of the non-"Big Guns" get used at the weddings as all the royal ladies need tiaras. This is why one of the King's sisters was wearing the Nine Pronger at Victoria's wedding, which is usually only used by the Queen.

I hope that you are right and Victoria will continue to wear the fringe soon. Imo it suits her very well. Probably time will show .

What do you think of Prince Carl Philip creating a new tiara for Sofia?

Do I trust CP's design talent to create a new tiara? - No, not really!
It's too often the contemporary tiara look like unimaginative playthings (Letizia's supposed Ansorena tiara, the butterfly tiara of HGD Stephanie, etc.) Obviously even specialized jewellery designers have trouble to create something that is both nice and contemporary. If they buy a new tiara for her, they should go for something made by a professional with taste and experience, imo.

 

[muriel]

Much as I would like to see Sofia get a new tiara, I think it is unlikely to happen. The Swedes have not really bought many tiaras in recent decades.


Also, I also think the King and Queen are going out of their way to show that Sofia is accepted. Giving her a new tiara and not one from the family pool may be interpreted by some as her not being perceived as one of them. I therefore think she will probably end up using the traditional bridal tiara, or if not, perhaps the Connaught or one of the Button tiaras.

 

[LadyFinn]

Much as I would like to see Sofia get a new tiara, I think it is unlikely to happen. The Swedes have not really bought many tiaras in recent decades.


Also, I also think the King and Queen are going out of their way to show that Sofia is accepted. Giving her a new tiara and not one from the family pool may be interpreted by some as her not being perceived as one of them. I therefore think she will probably end up using the traditional bridal tiara, or if not, perhaps the Connaught or one of the Button tiaras.

The king and queen could show their acceptance by giving Sofia a new tiara as a wedding gift.

 

[muriel]

The king and queen could show their acceptance by giving Sofia a new tiara as a wedding gift.

Quite the contrary, in my view. No other recent bride has been given a separate tiara, and they all seem to use from the family "pool". To single one out and not let her have one from the pool would, IMO, send out the wrong message.

 

[Stefan]

. Afaik, the fringe and the Connaught are both part of the foundation. And even if privately owned they wouldn't be given away as a present.

Actually i read once that the Connaught tiara and also the Cameo Parure are still the private Property of the King who inherited them both from his mother.

 

[JR76]

Actually i read once that the Connaught tiara and also the Cameo Parure are still the private Property of the King who inherited them both from his mother.

According to Order of splendour the Cameo is private property of the King and the Connaught also seems not to be included in the family foundation but I can't find out who actually owns it.


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[SElizabeth]

Quite the contrary, in my view. No other recent bride has been given a separate tiara, and they all seem to use from the family "pool". To single one out and not let her have one from the pool would, IMO, send out the wrong message.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Sarah Ferguson get a new tiara when she married Prince Andrew? I thought I read that somewhere so I could be mistaken....I think it would be a lovely gesture if SH got her very own special tiara to use, something that would suit her personality, not the traditional/old world style that is what makes up most tiaras today, something more modern.

 

[Tilia C.]

Ahh, thank you for that information, Stefan an JR76.

So in theory they could give one of these as a wedding present. But they most definitely won't, which is the point I wanted to make. The King has bought back historic tiaras (at least the rubies, maybe also the aquamarine and the pink tourmaline parure). The SRF has learned to keep historic jewels in the main line, while giving all family members access to appropriate jewels.

Their own daughter Madeleine seems to have received the modern fringe tiara at some point. A tiara with no further royal connection than being worn by the Queen a couple of times. It's a pity that there is no other contemporary tiara that could be reserved for CP's wife. But that's simply how it is, imo.

 

[LadyFinn]

Quite the contrary, in my view. No other recent bride has been given a separate tiara, and they all seem to use from the family "pool". To single one out and not let her have one from the pool would, IMO, send out the wrong message.

Sofia can't be compared to any of the recent brides. It would be a nice gesture to give her a new tiara. And to make her special in that way.

 

[SElizabeth]

I did a google search on tiaras that where given as gifts of brides coming into a royal family and to answer my own question above, Yes Sarah did receive her own tiara which QE bought for her, so maybe it would be a very nice gesture for the K/Q to give SH a tiara something that would be just for her keeping alone. * 1986, the Queen – purchased a tiara from Garrard for Sarah Ferguson's wedding to her son Prince Andrew.*

 

[Tilia C.]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Sarah Ferguson get a new tiara when she married Prince Andrew? I thought I read that somewhere so I could be mistaken....I think it would be a lovely gesture if SH got her very own special tiara to use, something that would suit her personality, not the traditional/old world style that is what makes up most tiaras today, something more modern.

Well. Sarah Ferguson was another generation and another country, and I don't see that the SRF would take her as a guideline.
Btw, the rumours say that Sarah had contacted a jeweller to loan the tiara since her own family had none. When the Queen heard about that, she decided to buy this tiara as a wedding gift.

When it comes to Sofia, I don't think that she'll contact a jeweller without discussing it with the RF.

Mette-Marit got a tiara as did Mary. But both the Norwegian and the Danish RF have a smaller tiara collection and it seemed smart to make additions.

 

[LadyFinn]

Carl Philip has already designed Sofia's engagement ring and earrings for her. Maybe we see a necklace designed by Carl Philip at the Nobel ceremony. And a tiara at the wedding.

 

[muriel]

I did a google search on tiaras that where given as gifts of brides coming into a royal family and to answer my own question above, Yes Sarah did receive her own tiara which QE bought for her, so maybe it would be a very nice gesture for the K/Q to give SH a tiara something that would be just for her keeping alone. * 1986, the Queen – purchased a tiara from Garrard for Sarah Ferguson's wedding to her son Prince Andrew.*

The customs and practices of the SRF and BRF are quite different. Sarah did indeed receive a new tiara. But the BRF do not really have a history of sharing tiaras between the ladies. Those allocated to specific members usually tend to stay with them for the rest of their lives, a bit like the Danish RF. The Swedes, however, share a lot of their jewellery, with the exception of some items being reserved for the Queen and the Crown Princess.

The SRF have not had any "material" new tiaras, other than the modern fringe, in the last few decades. For Sofia to not get to use a royal tiara at her wedding would, IMO, not send the right message at all.

 

[Bine221]

I really hope for a new Tiara for Sophia.... maybe designed from CP, maybe paid by the King, maybe the Queen spends some loose Diamonds, which are somewhere lying around in the vaults .

I hope for it, because there are not sooooo many Tiara Options for the new Princess.

The Baden Fringe and Princess Lillians Tiara: reserved/owned by Victoria.
Queen Silvias Modern Fringe --> now owned by Madeleine.
The 4 and 6 Buttons: ok for Nobel, PLEASE not for a wedding Tiara.
The Cut Steels: smaller White Tie Events only.
The Amethyst: ok for Nobel, not for a wedding.
The Ruby, as well as the Big Guns: Queen only.
So another small/medium Tiara would fit perfect.

Now it Comes to the 2 Options most of the others prefer:

- Connaught Tiara: Property of the Queen, only 1 time Madde weared it, at the most important day for the RF, the wedding of the Crown Princess. So I assume, that this will REMAIN in the Hands (at the head) of the Queen until further notice.

- The Cameo Tiara: Worn by the Queen, only ONCE, at the wedding of the Crown Princess, worn by Victoria ONE time and never again.

So I do not believe that either of the 2 tiaras will be lent to Sophia on her wedding day. Now we Need a new one!

(I will leave out the sisters of the Queen here, which is a different pair of shoes).
BYe Bine

 

[SElizabeth]

I really hope for a new Tiara for Sophia.... maybe designed from CP, maybe paid by the King, maybe the Queen spends some loose Diamonds, which are somewhere lying around in the vaults .

I hope for it, because there are not sooooo many Tiara Options for the new Princess.

The Baden Fringe and Princess Lillians Tiara: reserved/owned by Victoria.
Queen Silvias Modern Fringe --> now owned by Madeleine.
The 4 and 6 Buttons: ok for Nobel, PLEASE not for a wedding Tiara.
The Cut Steels: smaller White Tie Events only.
The Amethyst: ok for Nobel, not for a wedding.
The Ruby, as well as the Big Guns: Queen only.
So another small/medium Tiara would fit perfect.

Now it Comes to the 2 Options most of the others prefer:

- Connaught Tiara: Property of the Queen, only 1 time Madde weared it, at the most important day for the RF, the wedding of the Crown Princess. So I assume, that this will REMAIN in the Hands (at the head) of the Queen until further notice.

- The Cameo Tiara: Worn by the Queen, only ONCE, at the wedding of the Crown Princess, worn by Victoria ONE time and never again.

So I do not believe that either of the 2 tiaras will be lent to Sophia on her wedding day. Now we Need a new one!

(I will leave out the sisters of the Queen here, which is a different pair of shoes).
BYe Bine

Exactly and very well said. The above tiaras are not modern at all, and maybe something modern and more in keeping with SH and her style would be the way to go. This has nothing to do with being seen as accepted or not by the royal family, if other women marrying into a royal family had their own tiara then why not SH?

 

[Bine221]

One more comment: not only British RF members (Sarah) received new tiaras. Same was with some Northern European RF ones:
Mette Marit received the Daisy Tiara.
Mary received her small wedding Tiara.
So nothing completely new - the idea of getting a Tiara from the in-laws.
BYe Bine

 

[carlota]

i really like the connaught tiara, i think it's one of the nicest owned by the SRF, although given it has mostly not been worn by the SRF, i believe it won't be used this time. maybe victoria or madeleine will lend sofia one of the tiaras they use / own?

 

[carlota]

One more comment: not only British RF members (Sarah) received new tiaras. Same was with some Northern European RF ones:
Mette Marit received the Daisy Tiara.
Mary received her small wedding Tiara.
So nothing completely new - the idea of getting a Tiara from the in-laws.
BYe Bine

charlene also received a new tiara with the occasion of her wedding: the ocean tiara.

 

[HRHHermione]

i really like the connaught tiara, i think it's one of the nicest owned by the SRF, although given it has mostly not been worn by the SRF, i believe it won't be used this time. maybe victoria or madeleine will lend sofia one of the tiaras they use / own?

The Connaught has been worn by almost every member of the Swedish Royal Family actually. Victoria hasn't worn it, but that's probably her choice.

It's my best guess- I think it's the most likely wedding tiara choice.

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/08/tiara-thursday-connaught-tiara.html?m=1




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[muriel]

Exactly and very well said. The above tiaras are not modern at all, and maybe something modern and more in keeping with SH and her style would be the way to go. This has nothing to do with being seen as accepted or not by the royal family, if other women marrying into a royal family had their own tiara then why not SH?

In the last 50 years, how many Swedish royal brides have had a new tiara?

 

[MARG]

The Connaught has been worn by almost every member of the Swedish Royal Family actually. Victoria hasn't worn it, but that's probably her choice.

It's my best guess- I think it's the most likely wedding tiara choice.

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/08/tiara-thursday-connaught-tiara.html?m=1

If the stories are true and the Connaught belongs to Queen Silvia, then there couldn't be a more welcoming gesture than for her to offer it to Sofia for her wedding. The fact that Queen Silvia is known to favour the pronger, Madeleine the Modern Fringe and Victoria for the Baden Fringe, means that Sofia wearing the Connaught atop that lovely dark hair would not be stepping on anyone's toes.

IMHO CP Victoria hasn't worn the Connaught tiara by preference. It really does seem too fussy, frou frou and with more than a whiff of 'Fairytale Princess'. You only have to see her in the Baden Fringe, the large Steel Cut or even the Cameo, to appreciate the difference in style. That is not to say she has no use for it . . . she has worn the diamond drops on a necklace.

 

[muriel]

If the stories are true and the Connaught belongs to Queen Silvia, then there couldn't be a more welcoming gesture than for her to offer it to Sofia for her wedding. The fact that Queen Silvia is known to favour the pronger, Madeleine the Modern Fringe and Victoria for the Baden Fringe, means that Sofia wearing the Connaught atop that lovely dark hair would not be stepping on anyone's toes.

IMHO CP Victoria hasn't worn the Connaught tiara by preference. It really does seem too fussy, frou frou and with more than a whiff of 'Fairytale Princess'. You only have to see her in the Baden Fringe, the large Steel Cut or even the Cameo, to appreciate the difference in style. That is not to say she has no use for it . . . she has worn the diamond drops on a necklace.

Well put, and I could not agree more!

 

[SElizabeth]

In the last 50 years, how many Swedish royal brides have had a new tiara?

And I wasn't just referring to Swedish brides, and other comments here have been posted about many women marrying into a royal family and receiving a tiara as a wedding gift for just themselves. Please go back and read this thread to view other comments, not just mine....this isn't about being accepted by the royal family, this is about what kind of tiara would look good on SH.