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  #21  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
As an
Same with that landmine stuff. A worthy and important cause, sure, but during the same period she was also partying on yachts off the south of France.


Back to Diana. Her finest accomplishment was her children. God bless them.
why are her children so wonderful?? Do they not attned charity things and meet charity workers - and then go off and play polo or spend a fortune on a fancy car? yes Diana did work to publicise the cause of anti land mines and yes she did go on yatchng holidays with rich friends. Why is this worthy of comment when it is what virtually all rich people do? they take an interest in charities, they do some work - and then they party with other rich people..
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:50 AM
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When did we see William or Henry buy a fancy car?

I don't think it's really necessary in this thread, or at all to be so harsh. The poster started the thread to gather some information for a paper. We therefore don't require the the motives behind what Diana and her sons do.

It's quite clear that Diana, William and Henry all have a huge level of compassion for the charities they work with. The fact that they happen to be royalty (there are by no means outstandingly rich) shouldn't detract from what they are trying to do.
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:59 AM
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that was my point exactly. THe poster I repled to was saying "Diana talked about landmines and then went partying on her friends yacht." (obviously I did nnot mean literally that the boys bought cars, I just used it as the first example I could think of spending money).
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I am not sure she had thtat much of an impact.. she may have "made people a bit more openly emotional" but that was happening anyway, I think as the world changes and the British became more "Americanised"...
What do you mean by that? :-)
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:55 AM
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Thank you very much for all your answers!

My essay is not about what Diana did good or bad, but more on the impact that she had on the British and their culture :-)
Seen from an outsider looking in: Diana's influence, or the media circumstances around her, pulled the next generation of royalty (William and Harry) back from an open door to the press. That open door was started by Queen Elizabeth and continued with Prince Charles. We are unlikely to see anything similar with Prince William or Prince Harry.

Also, from an outsider looking in, Diana's problems can now be openly spoken about. That was not always the case. As a result, mental health issues are less handled with a 'stiff upper lip'. Being in contact with one's emotions is likely a new way for someone British to see themselves, directly attributable to the Diana phenomenon. IMO.

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Originally Posted by mcharlotte View Post
That's why I needed to know more about the way she was seen by the people and the press.
It has been a progression. Very different now than in the 80s, than in the 90s, than at her death, than in the 00s, etc. It's evolved.
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  #26  
Old 06-03-2017, 08:51 AM
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I think people's view on her depends on people's own stands. If you are a conservative person, probably you would dislike her. If you are a globalist, a supporter of multi-culture society you probably would like her.

Take her relationship with Dodi for example. Not all people in England disprove it. As much as I know, Tony Blair and his spin doctor Alastair Campbell actually supported it. You can see that in Tony Blair's autobiography "A journey", and Alastair Campbell's diary "the Blair years".

Here is an extract from Alastair Campbell's dairy, on the night of her death.

Quote:
‘She will become an icon straight away. She will live on as an icon.’ He (Tony Blair) felt that it happened as she was fairly close to the height of her appeal. Dodi was probably a step too far for a lot of people. Had she got married, had another child maybe, she’d have started to fall in popularity. But this will confirm her as a real icon...We talked about the last time they met at Chequers and the letters she sent afterwards. She was a real asset, a big part of ’New Britain’. But somehow he knew it was going to end like this, well before her time.
Diana and Dodi's relationship was more complicated than what you can read from the mainstream media. Here is a research I did about this. Maybe you can take sometime to read it.

Diana's Charity Work and Patronages


However, nowadays, in multi-culture is not a welcomed trend in British society. So understandably, I think not many people in Britain would appreciate her.

BTW, it's glad to know that you are also doing some research on Diana as a foreigner. I am also a foreigner and have great interest in her. I am also writing an essay about her in Chinese, and going to publish it later in some Chinese forum. As a fan of Diana, of course I hope my countrymen will appreciate her.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2017, 01:11 PM
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What do you mean by that? :-)
Sorry? I mean that the change towards greater emotionalism in the British might have happened anyway, through the Americanisation of culture. without Diana being "emotional".
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2017, 01:30 PM
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I had the feeling that something unfortunate would happen to her. There were frightening scenes when she was out and about without police protection. You might have seen pictures or video of when she'd leave venues and be totally closely surrounded by people. Then there was the running in the street when she'd be to see her therapist and the paparazzi would be around. I thought that she might be injured or killed by a deranged fan or have some kind of accident, or that her mental problems would get the worst of her and she'd injure herself or worse. I didn't see her getting quietly married again and having a peaceful life, sadly.

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I don't really see why you weren't surprised she had been in an accident?
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  #29  
Old 06-03-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why are her children so wonderful?? Do they not attned charity things and meet charity workers - and then go off and play polo or spend a fortune on a fancy car? yes Diana did work to publicise the cause of anti land mines and yes she did go on yatchng holidays with rich friends. Why is this worthy of comment when it is what virtually all rich people do? they take an interest in charities, they do some work - and then they party with other rich people..
I don't think that they're so great. I said that they, implying her raising of them, was her finest accomplishment. I think that she did a surprisingly competent job with them considering how self-centered and unhappy she was.

However, Denville, you have provided some food for thought here. For me to point to Diana's parenting and crow about what a fine job she did with the princes is a worn-out old trope that mcharlotte will come across time and time again in her reading.
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  #30  
Old 06-03-2017, 03:28 PM
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Seen from an outsider looking in: Diana's influence, or the media circumstances around her, pulled the next generation of royalty (William and Harry) back from an open door to the press. That open door was started by Queen Elizabeth and continued with Prince Charles. We are unlikely to see anything similar with Prince William or Prince Harry.
I agree that they are less likely to be as open with the press when it comes to their private/family lives.
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  #31  
Old 06-03-2017, 03:34 PM
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Charity work does good, no doubt about it, but it needs to be stressed that charity work by the (already) wealthy is something of a an easy way to garner the goodwill of the 'rest of us'. And to 'make a living' (it's pretty effortless). Philanthropy is hard work (imagine what it would take to dispense millions to the public) but charity work is of a different stripe.

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but I've done work for charitable organizations, I've worked with 'the talent' out front. I have absolutely no problem with anyone 'making a living' via their charity work (and would argue with anyone who claims there should't be payment) but doing charity work does not immediately translate into a 'good person'. It's so complicated.

Out front charity work is (simply put) good PR for all involved. I am always a bit bemused by all the laudatory comments regarding Diana's 'charity work'. The landmine stuff with Diana is an example of a celebrity polishing their apple. Totally understandable. Diana had few options for bringing in income. Her name and connection to the BRF as a princess had sparkle and cache. She was correctly using it imo, but we should never lose sight of the fact that Diana potentially had other reasons behind keeping her name front-and-center with the public. Given what I have come to understand regarding Diana, her motivations were likely complex and layered.

Saying all the above does not then discount that Diana as a person may not have enjoyed serving in that very public out-front way, and was not exceedingly good at it. However, she was also problematic for some of her 'causes', given that it was more about her and the photo-op than any real connection to the organization she was at that moment serving by her momentary presence. JMO. (I do wince when people go on about her charity work, tho).
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  #32  
Old 06-03-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I don't think that they're so great. I said that they, implying her raising of them, was her finest accomplishment. I think that she did a surprisingly competent job with them considering how self-centered and unhappy she was.

However, Denville, you have provided some food for thought here. For me to point to Diana's parenting and crow about what a fine job she did with the princes is a worn-out old trope that mcharlotte will come across time and time again in her reading.
She was seflf-centred at times, yes but I'd hardly say a lot more than many people. She had different problems to a lot of women, and she was naturally spoiled by the atmosphere that she was in, as a royal.
I didn't say that she didn't do a reasonably good job.. I think she was a good mother and did her best but neither of them has the sort of qualities that their mother and father have. She reared them to be polite and gentlemanly, not to use their positions unfairly ie things like standing in line, and being polite to staff etc - and she showed them what she did in her charity work.
its not her fault that she coudlnt' entirely counteract the spoiling that they were bound to get as princes.. and botht of them certainly had a phase of being spoiled upper class twits, esp Harry.
IMO her legacy is her warmth, her ability to connect with people and her kindness.. Of course she ahd a bad side, most people do.. but I think that her good side is getting hidden from view nowadays by people who want to rubbish her...
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  #33  
Old 06-06-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I had the feeling that something unfortunate would happen to her. There were frightening scenes when she was out and about without police protection. You might have seen pictures or video of when she'd leave venues and be totally closely surrounded by people.
.
I don't think that it was that dramatic, in the UK. SHe walked around London on her own, and she said to the Police who DID try to get her to accept police protection, that she had been doing this for a while and nothing had happened to her. And while I agree that she had some issues, I don't think that the self harming was all that dangerous, or she would have been problably quietly kept "off duty" more than she was and might have had scars...
I don't think she was likely to try to kill herself. I think she dramatized, certainly and maybe made threats but I don't think her depression was bad enough for that.
She did have to leg it from paparazzi, at times, but I think if it had been dangerous, Di was savvy enough to know that she DID need police or bodyguards and would have put up with them, at least some more of the time.
And in any case, since I dotnt think any of us knew what security arrangement M Al Fayed had for his son, I certainly woudl not have thought of her being in any danger in Dodi's compnay.
I would have assumed that his son was well protected and that Diana, when out with Dodi, would have plenty of security around. The tragedy was caused by the Press mainly but also by Dodi's men not being experienced with the press, and Dodi messing them around and coming up with "clever plans" to outwit the press which led to Henri Paul driving Diana.
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  #34  
Old 06-06-2017, 05:43 PM
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As far as suicide attempts, I think you're right Denville that she really didn't want to kill herself. She, more or less, was "committing attention" in a way to relate that things were not all peaches and cream in her world. Most of what I've read about behavior problems with Diana, to me, seems to stem from her own lack of self esteem. She was a person not overly comfortable in her own skin. Public life though and acceptance by the masses did wonders for her self esteem and over her public years we watched her grow from a teenager to a woman with charm, grace and a charismatic manner.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing that shows us what could of or should of been different but at the actual time, people do what they deem to be right at that point in time. Nobody could have really predicted that death in a tunnel in Paris and prevented it.
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  #35  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:05 AM
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I didn't think she'd die, in a car crash. I assume that the Fayeds were very rich and MAF was known to be paranoid about security, so i'd have thoght that when she was with Dodi, he had bodyguards to protect her and trained chauffeurs to drive her.
I don't think she relay made suicide attempts myself.. maybe she made some threats but while she DID have psychological problems I don't think they extended to suicidal tendencies or to serous self harming.
I agree that she wasn't a happy person, and her charity work, her royal role DID give her some special "self esteem boosting" which made her happier. however it didn't sadly solve all her problems. She was a bit like some troubled actresses who had the love of thteir audiences but didn't have much love in their personal lives.
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  #36  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:37 AM
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Did she really throw herself down the stairs when pregnant with William, or fall down and tell everyone she did?


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  #37  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:41 AM
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We don't know, we won't ever know unless someone present that day and saw it confirmed it, and that is just not going to happen.


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  #38  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:01 AM
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Did she really throw herself down the stairs when pregnant with William, or fall down and tell everyone she did?


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She almost certainly trpped and fell. And later, in depression and in an attempt to make Charles look bad, she said that she'd tried kill or injure herself and that Charles had been indifferent. I think that then she did realise that it made her look crazy or very heartless, and she used friends to put out that Mortn had misinterpreted what she said and that she hadn't made any suicide attempts...
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:55 PM
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I think there's no evidence from any independent witness, (member of staff etc) at least no-one who's willing to talk, that this incident happened at all. It may have happened and Diana later blew it up into something big because she was depressed and angry, it may not. We're never likely to know, IMO.
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  #40  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:10 PM
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I have some memory of having read about this being described by someone. Who? Was the Queen Mother present? There was a trip at the top of the stairs but it wasn't as extreme as Diana represented? Though scary given her condition (pregnant with William). I remember that from some where. Anyone? Maybe I am recalling a rumor rather than a fact. So many of the former.
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