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  #1941  
Old 05-13-2017, 04:05 PM
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Yes, I remember the talk about the Queen abdicating early and letting Charles take over. Thank goodness that didn't happen!
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  #1942  
Old 05-13-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Yes, I remember the talk about the Queen abdicating early and letting Charles take over. Thank goodness that didn't happen!
I think a lot of that was (and perhaps still is) due to the change of how the press presented the Royal Family. Diana was speaking out against them and their treatment of her and with so much of that in the public's face day in and day out, the public actually got the feeling that they had a say in how things should be and totally forgot that the constitutional role of the monarch and its succession was written in stone and would not change.

Its the case of the people believing they had a voice in matters where they didn't.
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  #1943  
Old 05-13-2017, 04:25 PM
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The idea of the young Waleses and Cambridge's on the throne is very appealing to the media and others. They want to recreate the young Elizabeth and Philip on the throne. Everyone just have to accept they're we're not going to get that.
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  #1944  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:39 PM
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Yes, I remember those times; but as I remember it, the talk was more of skipping over Charles and letting the throne going to William.

I was speaking of the time during the 80s, particularly the early 80s, when there was such a "feel good factor" about Charles and Diana that some folks wanted the Queen to pass on the throne to Prince Charles right away.

Again, there was a lack of understanding about how these things work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think a lot of that was (and perhaps still is) due to the change of how the press presented the Royal Family. Diana was speaking out against them and their treatment of her and with so much of that in the public's face day in and day out, the public actually got the feeling that they had a say in how things should be and totally forgot that the constitutional role of the monarch and its succession was written in stone and would not change.

Its the case of the people believing they had a voice in matters where they didn't.
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  #1945  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:58 AM
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It is niot "wrtten in stone". It could be changed, if the people really want it, but generaly speaking the Powers that be are conservative bout these matters and the RF obviously is as well. In Europe many other monarchs have decided to abdicate at a certain age to allow their heirs to take over while still relatlively young
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  #1946  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:11 AM
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None have chosen to abdicate because of the age of heir. Albert for health reasons. JC due to all the scandal. Beatrix possibly age but it is common in Netherlands, besides it was close to the death of her son.

Elizabeth is a woman who takes duty to a whole new level. She swore to serve her entire life. Her son's age is not reason enough for her to turn her back on duty. People seem to be viewing abdication as a band wagon and we are waiting for the next royal to join the fun. Wouldn't hold my breath on Elizabeth, the BRF is different then the continent in more ways than one.
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  #1947  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:20 AM
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I'm sure that as people livie longer, this trend will happen more at least in Europe. As I recall Q Juliana also abdicated, so clearly the continental royals feel tht they don't need to continue in their role till they die, that they can retire and take things easier, when they are elderly and in less good health... and that means that their heirs can take over rather than waiting in the wings all their lives as Charles may be fated to do...
However I think that its true the queen would never abdicate. but that does not mean that the succession laws can't be changed
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  #1948  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:46 AM
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An important difference between the British monarch and her European colleagues is that the monarch of the UK is still crowned and anointed. The anointing, in particular, has spiritual significance. The coronation vows are made to God as well as to the nation.
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  #1949  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:06 PM
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True but while Charles is religious I don't think that William is, and he may not feel the same dedication.. may in his day feel that there are things to be said in favour of passing on the throne when he is elderly...
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  #1950  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:25 PM
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It depends too on how things happen politically. If the Church of England becomes disestablished, the whole coronation service might change. There might be no need to have the service in a Cathedral at all. Then again, perhaps William will become more "religious" as his ages. A person never knows. We're getting terribly off-topic here BTW.

Diana was a woman of her time in regard to her New Age therapies and astrologers and so on. I think that this probably had an affect on William and Harry in the way that any parent's religious beliefs affect their children.
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  #1951  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:26 PM
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A small note if I may:

The coronation in London doesn't take place in a Cathedral but an Abbey. Every monarch since 1066 has been crowned in Westminster Abbey, other than Edward V and Edward VIII.

Westminster Cathedral is a fairly new church having only opened in the 1890s and is Roman Catholic.

Westminster Cathedral and Westminster Abbey are two very different churches. The Abbey is across the road from the Palace of Westminster while the Cathedral is some distance away.

The Abbey: https://assets.londonist.com/uploads...mie_koster.jpg

The Cathedral: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...d_3119984b.jpg
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  #1952  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:57 PM
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Time now to move back to the topic - we can discuss British coronations in the Coronations and Enthronements thread. Thank you.
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  #1953  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:08 PM
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Oh, right. Thanks for the reminder.

[QUOTE=Iluvbertie;1985836]A small note if I may:

The coronation in London doesn't take place in a Cathedral but an Abbey. Every monarch since 1066 has been crowned in Westminster Abbey, other than Edward V and Edward VIII. ]
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  #1954  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
It depends too on how things happen politically. If the Church of England becomes disestablished, the whole coronation service might change. There might be no need to have the service in a Cathedral at all. Then again, perhaps William will become more "religious" as his ages. A person never knows. We're getting terribly off-topic here BTW.
I think that there is a religious element in the Coronation and unless they go completely different, and just have some kind of brief ceremony, it will continue to have a religious dimension.
I think that William seems to have liltte interest in religion but you are right that he may have been influenced by Diana's elastic attitude..and he may change as he grows older.
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  #1955  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:27 AM
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I think that the way the British do things such as coronations and the State Opening of Parliament and even the annual events we look forward to every year is basically keeping traditions and the history behind them alive. One that remains from days of yore is the Hostage.

During the State Opening of Parliament in the United Kingdom, one member of Parliament, known as the hostage MP, travels to Buckingham Palace before the Queen travels to Parliament. The hostage is released upon safe return of the Queen. This tradition began when the monarch and Parliament were on less friendly terms.

Perhaps if something was to change with the Church of England, there would be some changes made such as the anointing but with Charles being a traditionalist, I expect him to stick as much as he can to the time honored ceremony of coronation.

Perhaps this topic of coronations should be moved to a more appropriate thread such as Coronation of British Monarchs as it has little to do with Diana's legacy.

ETA: Sorry Jack....
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  #1956  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:43 AM
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We see this to this day as emphasis is being put on teamwork as Philip announces his retirement. "Team Windsor" was never an idea that would have occurred to Diana.
On re reading this Osipi I think that you're wrong. I don't believe that Diana was against the idea of "TeamWindsor" in itself. She saw herself initally as working with Charles and she and C did their engagements together, first. I think she did branch away from him, s time went on because she and he found it harder and harder to work together because they were not getting on well.. and she developed differenet charity interests, not always quite approved of by the RF. So she and he began to work separately and they seemed to clash, in that she was getting a lot more popular than he was, and he was seein as championing "non human causes", such as farming issues, global warming, old buildings etc.. while she came acrorss as caring for people in the issues she worked on, AIDS, children, women etc.
She clearly felt that the RF had abandoned HER, to an extetn.. in not getting on well with her, not doing anything to stop C's affair etc. Of course she was wrong,, and se was more wrong to start thinking she was bigger than the RF and that she could walk out on them and work on her own with a tenous connextion with them. But I don't think she was "against teamwork" as such. Had she and C worked out, as she seems to have said, they could have been a great team, with her doing the "talking to people" side of it and his doing the serious speeches stuff.
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  #1957  
Old 06-11-2017, 03:00 AM
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Maybe your memory is better than mine is but actually what I meant by Diana not working as a "team", I wasn't referring to her and Charles. Do you remember if, at all, Diana did engagements with other members of the family?

Maybe its a new thing just starting with this younger generation. I thought it was nice that Kate had gone on some engagements with the Queen and Camilla too if I'm remembering right.

Perhaps if there was more of a "team spirit" within the BRF back then when Diana was starting out, she wouldn't have felt so abandoned and left to her own devices when it came to doing engagements without Charles. Ah well... its all water under the bridge now.

So many things within the "Firm" changed after Diana's death and I have to believe that Diana influenced them to make changes for the better so that things went smoother.
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  #1958  
Old 06-11-2017, 03:08 AM
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Yes, I agree that many things have changed in 'the Firm' due to the Diana influence. For instance, I really can't remember too many joint engagements of Charles's performed with his siblings, not even Anne who was close in age.

Whereas now we have had several by the Three Musketeers alias the Cambridges and Harry. They and the public have regarded them as enjoyable and worthwhile, like the HeadsTogether campaign.
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  #1959  
Old 06-11-2017, 03:34 AM
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She clearly felt that the RF had abandoned HER, to an extent in not getting on well with her, not doing anything to stop C's affair etc.
Where is the evidence that Diana expected the RF to 'stop' Charles' affair with Camilla? I've never heard this before. Isn't it a bit ironic that you posit Diana as wanting the RF to stop Charles but not her? Double standard? I don't think Diana expected anything of the sort btw. She was playing by the unwritten rules of the aristocratic marital game. She was too deep into her own affairs to be fingering the RF about Charles' one on-going indiscretion imo.

[QUOTE=Denville;1993185]Of course she was wrong and she was more wrong to start thinking she was bigger than the RF and that she could walk out on them and work on her own with a tenous connection with them. But I don't think she was "against teamwork" as such. Had she and C worked out, as she seems to have said, they could have been a great team, with her doing the "talking to people" side of it and his doing the serious speeches stuff.[/QUOTE]

We have to remember how dramatically her public activities shifted once she was divorced, but it began while she was separated. Am I mistaken on this? Her Panorama lament about she and Charles being a 'good team' was Diana looking back through a haze to an earlier time she had by then irrevocably lost: royal tours and royal receptions. Gone. It was like she was trying to ask for it all back, for it to be as it was, but humpty-dumpty would never get put back together again. Diana simply never respected Charles enough, in the end. Like you said, she dismissed him and his family and thought the lustre she had acquired by becoming Charles' wife, was her lustre by some sort of 'right'. Unlovely, that.
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  #1960  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Maybe your memory is better than mine is but actually what I meant by Diana not working as a "team", I wasn't referring to her and Charles. Do you remember if, at all, Diana did engagements with other members of the family?



So many things within the "Firm" changed after Diana's death and I have to believe that Diana influenced them to make changes for the better so that things went smoother.
NO as Curryong has said, I don't think there was much "doing things as a team", or joint engagements in Di and C's day. An occasional joining up, I think but not as a regular thing. I don't know if she would have wanted it like that, because I think once she got used to it, she did engagemetns by herself very well. but when I said "team" I didn't really mean the "actually going out on engagements" with someone else per se, I was meaning the idea of the RF "pulling together and working for the famly/country as a whole, not for themselves."
Diana is often accused of not "pulling on the same side" as the RF, and I think that was true of later years but not at first. I think she wanted to work with Charles, she DIDNT want to upstage him.. and she saw her role as "doing her bit for the RF and the UK".
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